more on margin kerning

more on margin kerning

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Dear syndicate,

Hartmut may be right that this is a pdfetex problem***, but the following 
example makes me think there is more to it. Indeed, the following is actually 
more to the point of my own problem:

Consider the following typescript type-test.tex and and example file 
hanging.tex. When TeX hyphenates the word, the dash is kerned into the margin, 
but when a dash is manually inserted, no kerning occurs.

Note: in this example neither `-' nor \hyphen works, whereas in the previous 
posted problem \hyphen did work. This makes me think that this is a macro, not 
an engine, issue. Please help!

Best to all and thnx
Idris

*** I am using ConTeXt ver: 2005.03.16, the full mswincontext.zip. If there
is a compatible up-to-date pdfetex binary out there please point me to it (or 
send it to me)!

=============type-test.tex==============
%% font mapping
\starttypescript   [serif]    [test]           [texnansi]
\definefontsynonym [LMRSerif] [texnansi-lmbx12][encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript

%% general names
\starttypescript   [serif]    [test]           [name]
\definefontsynonym [Serif]    [LMRSerif]
\stoptypescript

%% font sizes
\starttypescript   [serif]    [test]           [size]
\definebodyfont [4pt,5pt,6pt,7pt,8pt,9pt,10pt,11pt,12pt,14.4pt,17.3pt]
  [rm]
  [tf=Serif sa 1]
\stoptypescript

%% hanging
\starttypescript  [serif]     [hanging][test]

\setupfontsynonym [Serif]     [handling=normal]
\setupfontsynonym [SerifCapt] [handling=normal]

\stoptypescript

%% final typeface
\starttypescript[LMRTest]

\definebodyfontenvironment
  [LMRTest]
  [default]
  [interlinespace=2.8ex]

\definetypeface [lmrtest]
[rm] [serif] [test] [test] [encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript
===================================

=============hanging.tex===============
\setupoutput[pdftex]

\setuplayout[width=4in]

\usetypescriptfile[type-test]
\usetypescript[serif] [hanging] [test]
\usetypescript[LMRTest]
\setupbodyfont[lmrtest,10pt]
\setupalign[hanging]

\showframe
\starttext

   \dorecurse{40}{lots of hy\-phen\-a\-tion\hyphen\ }
   \blank
   \dorecurse{40}{lots of hy\-phen\-a\-tion- }

\hyphen\ -

\stoptext
===================================

============================
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: more on margin kerning

[Taco Hoekwater]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> Dear syndicate,
> 
> Hartmut may be right that this is a pdfetex problem***, but the following 
> example makes me think there is more to it. Indeed, the following is actually 
> more to the point of my own problem:

I think Hartmut is precisely right, because all is well using 1.21a.
But I do not know whether there is a pdftex 1.21a for Windows anywhere.

Greetings, Taco

RE: more on margin kerning

[Ulrich Dirr]

On Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:12 PM Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> I think Hartmut is precisely right, because all is well using 1.21a.
> But I do not know whether there is a pdftex 1.21a for Windows anywhere.

the latest miktex has it ;-)

Ulrich 

Re: more on margin kerning

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Hi Ulrich

On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:22:02 +0200, Ulrich Dirr <ud@art-satz.de> wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:12 PM Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>> I think Hartmut is precisely right, because all is well using 1.21a.
>> But I do not know whether there is a pdftex 1.21a for Windows anywhere.
>
> the latest miktex has it ;-)

I suspect that mswincontext.zip is based on fpTeX. I have not used MiKTeX 
in ages; can I just use the binary or do I need some associated dll's (the 
way MiKTeX worked years ago)? Can you (or someone) specify a minimal set 
of files needed to use the MiKTeX version?

Thnx for pointing this out.

Best
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

RE: more on margin kerning

[Ulrich Dirr]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1030 bytes --]

On Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:27 PM Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> I suspect that mswincontext.zip is based on fpTeX. I have not used MiKTeX
> in ages; can I just use the binary or do I need some associated dll's
(the
> way MiKTeX worked years ago)? Can you (or someone) specify a minimal set
> of files needed to use the MiKTeX version?

I'm sorry I've just changed from fptex to miktex. Therefore I don't know
very much about miktex myself. I was forced to switch because fptex isn't
developed any further by Fabrice. I'd preferred fptex because it was more
tetex like than miktex. Unfortunately I'm not a programmer and don't know
how to compile successfully pdftex on a windows system. But maybe you can
try to run a standalone version of pdftex on
http://pdftex.sarovar.org/djgpp/ (the latest sources of pdfTeX can be found
at http://pdftex.sarovar.org/src). I've attached a how-to by Thanh. When
you run this version it shows you a version number which should not confuse
you -- it's the same as 1.21a actually.

Good luck
Ulrich

[-- Attachment #2: README.djgpp-pdftex --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1819 bytes --]

* making djgpp binaries of pdftex running on win2k with miktex:

    - install miktex (the basic version small-miktex-2.4.1705.exe)
      with the default locations for texmf trees (c:/texmf and c:/localtexmf)
    
    - make a directory c:\mytex to contain files needed to get 
      djgpp pdftex run; it must have the following structure:

,--------
|  c:\mytex
|     |-- batch
|     |-- bin
|     `-- texmf
|         |-- fonts
|         |   `-- map
|         |       `-- pdftex
|         `-- web2c
`--------

    - unpack the pdftex djgpp binaries; move the *.exe files to c:\mytex\bin
      and *.pool files to c:\mytex\texmf\web2c

    - get a decent pdftex.map (I used the TeX Collection 2004 DVD) and copy it to
      c:\mytex\texmf\fonts\map\pdftex

    - copy mktexlsr.exe from texlive2004/bin/win32-static -> c:\mytex\bin

    - copy a recent texmf.cnf (e.g. from texlive2004/texmf/web2c) ->
      c:\mytex\texmf\web2c and change the following variables:

,--------
| TEXMFMAIN = c:/texmf
| TEXMFLOCAL = c:/localtexmf
| HOMETEXMF = c:/mytex/texmf
| TEXMF = {$HOMETEXMF,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN}
`--------

    - create a batch file mytex.bat in c:\mytex\batch containing the following lines:

,--------
| @echo off
| 
| set TEXMFCNF=c:\mytex\texmf\web2c
| set PATH=c:\mytex\bin;%PATH%
| set LFN=y
| 
| cmd
`--------
      [those variables can also be set in autoexec.bat of course, but doing so
       requires a reboot :)]
      
    - make a shortcut to mytex.bat on desktop

    - open mytex.bat, run:

      mktexlsr

      to create the ls-R databases (helps to speed up searching).

    - some quick tests:
    
      pdftex -ini pdftex.ini
      pdftex -ini pdflatex.ini

      pdftex story \bye
      pdftex -fmt=pdflatex sample2e


[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: more on margin kerning

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:50:21 +0200, Ulrich Dirr <ud@art-satz.de> wrote:

> I was forced to switch because fptex isn't
> developed any further by Fabrice.

Oh dear, this is really bad news-((
(and to think I just wrote Fabrice about this a few minutes ago)

I will try to follow up on the rest of your advice. Basically, we need a 
pdfetex setup that mswincontext.zip users can use; others will need this 
as well so it should be posted somewhere (maybe on contextgarden?).

Thank you very much, Ulrich.

Best
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: more on margin kerning

[Hans Hagen]

Ulrich Dirr wrote:

> very much about miktex myself. I was forced to switch because fptex isn't
> developed any further by Fabrice. I'd preferred fptex because it was more
 > tetex like than miktex. Unfortunately I'm not a programmer and don't know
 > how to compile successfully pdftex on a windows system. But maybe you can
 > try to run a standalone version of pdftex on
 > http://pdftex.sarovar.org/djgpp/ (the latest sources of pdfTeX can be found
 > at http://pdftex.sarovar.org/src). I've attached a how-to by Thanh. When
 > you run this version it shows you a version number which should not confuse
 > you -- it's the same as 1.21a actually.

originally tex live was built out of tetex, fptex and gwtex

currently we see these three distribitions go their own way; gwtex is much more 
that tetex, i.e. it ships with more tex goodies and gerbens installer provides 
more tools as well asn an update path; fptex has become xemtex and is now an 
integrated environment;

the gwtex binaries are mostly similar to the ones in tetex and can be used with 
any web2c tree, and the same is true for the binaries that ship with xemtex; 
there will be places to download the win binaries soon; miktex is a option for 
windows users as well (unless you want to share trees etc on multiple platforms)

the djgpp version works ok too but is slower

btw, fabrice's (fptex) tex binaries are optimized for running mp from within tex 
  and provide a few goodies not found in other web2c variants

(the new versions of texexec & texutil will no longer depend on ini files and 
such and will hopefully run smoothly with miktex as well as web2c variants)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: more on margin kerning

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Hi Hans,

On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:02:02 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> originally tex live was built out of tetex, fptex and gwtex
>
> currently we see these three distribitions go their own way;
:

What do you suggest in the short term as the easiest/best way to get the 
latest pdfetex working here?

Thnx as always
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: more on margin kerning

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> Hi Hans,
> 
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:02:02 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
>> originally tex live was built out of tetex, fptex and gwtex
>>
>> currently we see these three distribitions go their own way;
> 
> :
> 
> What do you suggest in the short term as the easiest/best way to get the 
> latest pdfetex working here?

just use the xemtex binaries (in your case)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: more on margin kerning

[Fabrice Popineau]

> I'm sorry I've just changed from fptex to miktex. Therefore I don't
> know very much about miktex myself. I was forced to switch because
> fptex isn't developed any further by Fabrice. 

You are right. It is not developed anymore, but the whole stuff isn't
gone yet.

http://www.metz.supelec.fr/~popineau/xemtex-1.html

Beware: the web pages are still under construction. 
People are welcome to download, try and report about the xemtex bundle.
Stay tuned by reading the web pages. More to come.

Best,

Fabrice

Re: more on margin kerning

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:11:53 +0200, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> 
wrote:

>> Hartmut may be right that this is a pdfetex problem***, but the 
>> following example makes me think there is more to it. Indeed, the 
>> following is actually more to the point of my own problem:
>
> I think Hartmut is precisely right, because all is well using 1.21a.

I don't doubt you-) but then why does \hyphen (but not `-') protrude in 
the example from the original post, and not protrude in my latest example?

> But I do not know whether there is a pdftex 1.21a for Windows anywhere.

\dorecurse{3}{<Sigh>}:
and I have to deliver my manuscript to the sponsors in the next few 
days...
This is really no good-(

Thanks Harmut and Taco for clarifying things.

Best
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: more on margin kerning

[Otared Kavian]

At 6:33 -0600 10/05/05, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
>Consider the following typescript type-test.tex and and example file
>hanging.tex. When TeX hyphenates the word, the dash is kerned into the margin,
>but when a dash is manually inserted, no kerning occurs.

Hi Idriss,

I tried both your example files on my installation (Gerben's TeX on 
Mac OS X and
pdfeTeX, Version 3.141592-1.21a-2.2 (Web2C 7.5.4)
ConTeXt  ver: 2005.04.19  fmt: 2005.4.24  int: english  mes: english).
No difference is seen between the two ways of inserting the dash: 
there is a kerning into the margin as it should be (as far as I 
know...).

>Note: in this example neither `-' nor \hyphen works, whereas in the previous
>posted problem \hyphen did work. This makes me think that this is a macro, not
>an engine, issue. Please help!

Here \hyphen, \endash and \emdash work correctly in both your example files.
Probably the problem is located in your installation?

Best regards: OK

Re: more on margin kerning

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:15:28 +0200, Otared Kavian <otared@wanadoo.fr> 
wrote:

> At 6:33 -0600 10/05/05, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
>> Consider the following typescript type-test.tex and and example file
>> hanging.tex. When TeX hyphenates the word, the dash is kerned into the 
>> margin,
>> but when a dash is manually inserted, no kerning occurs.
>
> Hi Idriss,
>
> I tried both your example files on my installation (Gerben's TeX on Mac 
> OS X and
> pdfeTeX, Version 3.141592-1.21a-2.2 (Web2C 7.5.4)

The latest mswincontext.zip has an older pdfetex, 1.20; this seems to be 
the problem. I will get the XemTeX version and test it when I get home 
this evening.

Thanks to all for their help
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: more on margin kerning

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:15:28 +0200, Otared Kavian <otared@wanadoo.fr> 
> wrote:
> 
>> At 6:33 -0600 10/05/05, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
>>
>>> Consider the following typescript type-test.tex and and example file
>>> hanging.tex. When TeX hyphenates the word, the dash is kerned into 
>>> the margin,
>>> but when a dash is manually inserted, no kerning occurs.
>>
>>
>> Hi Idriss,
>>
>> I tried both your example files on my installation (Gerben's TeX on 
>> Mac OS X and
>> pdfeTeX, Version 3.141592-1.21a-2.2 (Web2C 7.5.4)
> 
> 
> The latest mswincontext.zip has an older pdfetex, 1.20; this seems to be 
> the problem. I will get the XemTeX version and test it when I get home 
> this evening.

that version should kern as expected

Hans




-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: more on margin kerning

[Hartmut Henkel]

Hi Hans,

On Tue, 10 May 2005, Hans Hagen wrote:

> > The latest mswincontext.zip has an older pdfetex, 1.20; this seems
> > to be the problem. I will get the XemTeX version and test it when I
> > get home this evening.
>
> that version should kern as expected

but we had a spurious protrusion problem still in the pdftex manual made
by 1.20a, in the HZ demonstration section. It was caused by some
uninitialized variable, was in since quite some time, fixed in 1.21a.

Regards, Hartmut

RE: more on margin kerning

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Dear gang,

I just got home, installed the pdfetex binary from xemtex and, presto! problem 
solved:-)))

Thank you everyone for coming to my rescue in my latest crisis, especially 
Hartmut and Taco for pointing me in the right direction;-) and thank you 
Ulrich, Fabrice and Hans.

It's interesting that this issue in my work came up the same day that Fabrice 
set up the stuff on the xemtex site. My (very agnostic/atheist) logic 
professor*** from grad school would call this "almost a proof for the 
existence of God";-)

Best to all and THNX!!
Idris

***John Corcoran, an associate/editor of Tarski and one of the world's very 
top logicians

>> The latest mswincontext.zip has an older pdfetex, 1.20; this seems to be
>> the problem. I will get the XemTeX version and test it when I get home
>> this evening.
>
>that version should kern as expected

============================
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523