* [NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
@ 2023-10-05 7:05 Rik Kabel
2023-10-05 7:11 ` Rik Kabel
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Rik Kabel @ 2023-10-05 7:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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* [NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
2023-10-05 7:05 [NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions Rik Kabel
@ 2023-10-05 7:11 ` Rik Kabel
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Rik Kabel @ 2023-10-05 7:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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* [NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
2023-10-03 21:08 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2023-10-04 7:00 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2023-10-04 7:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
Am 03.10.23 um 23:08 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2023, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>
>> For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump through
>> some hoops just to use the system, but
>> – most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
>> – I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling of
>> names
>> – I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
>> – if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom cite wrapper macro)
>
> When I have to write your own rendering, I find it more convenient to use XML/JSON (or even a lua table) as a starting format.
I don’t understand how a custom rendering relates to the input database?
My bib database is already complete, and I find the format much more
comfortable to write than XML.
Hraban
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* [NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
2023-10-03 14:32 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
@ 2023-10-03 21:08 ` Aditya Mahajan
2023-10-04 7:00 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2023-10-03 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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On Tue, 3 Oct 2023, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump through
> some hoops just to use the system, but
> – most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
> – I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling of
> names
> – I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
> – if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom cite wrapper macro)
When I have to write your own rendering, I find it more convenient to use XML/JSON (or even a lua table) as a starting format.
Aditya
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* [NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
2023-10-03 0:02 ` [NTG-context] " Alan Braslau via ntg-context
@ 2023-10-03 14:32 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2023-10-03 21:08 ` Aditya Mahajan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2023-10-03 14:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 03.10.23 um 02:02 schrieb Alan Braslau:
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:13:52 +0200
> Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
>
>> Consider:
>> @Book {rattenhka,
>> author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
>> title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
>> …
>> }
>>
>> The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim”
>> (mother and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers
>> or “Bettina and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good
>> solution for related authors?
>
> Multiple authors should be treated as multiple authors. That they are
> related is not and should not be a consideration in citing works. At
> least this is the practice that I know of for academic texts.
>
> You can cheat and try to define one author with a combined first name,
> like
> author={Eames, Ray & Earl},
> but I don't know how that parses as I have never tried it; "and" is a
> reserved token used to define multiple authors. I wouldn't do it as I
> can think of many examples (Bjaer & Bjaer) where we give both credit,
> individually.
Thank you.
It seems like database solutions like BibTeX & Cie are generally not
suitable for quoting books as they were published – and that’s important
in the contexts of “my” authors (literary studies, history).
For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump
through some hoops just to use the system, but
– most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
– I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling
of names
– I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
– if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom
cite wrapper macro)
This all works fine without the btx subsysten (I just need to find
solutions for some edge cases, or avoid them), so I probably had wrong
ideas about bibliographies (at least in TeX).
OTOH, for my novel I can use the bib database approach for an extended
person register; the required rendering is much less involved.
Hraban
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* [NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
2023-10-02 11:13 [NTG-context] " Henning Hraban Ramm
@ 2023-10-03 0:02 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-10-03 14:32 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau via ntg-context @ 2023-10-03 0:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Henning Hraban Ramm; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Alan Braslau
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:13:52 +0200
Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
> Consider:
> @Book {rattenhka,
> author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
> title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
> …
> }
>
> The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim”
> (mother and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers
> or “Bettina and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good
> solution for related authors?
Multiple authors should be treated as multiple authors. That they are
related is not and should not be a consideration in citing works. At
least this is the practice that I know of for academic texts.
You can cheat and try to define one author with a combined first name,
like
author={Eames, Ray & Earl},
but I don't know how that parses as I have never tried it; "and" is a
reserved token used to define multiple authors. I wouldn't do it as I
can think of many examples (Bjaer & Bjaer) where we give both credit,
individually.
Alan
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___________________________________________________________________________________
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2023-10-05 7:05 [NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions Rik Kabel
2023-10-05 7:11 ` Rik Kabel
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2023-10-02 11:13 [NTG-context] " Henning Hraban Ramm
2023-10-03 0:02 ` [NTG-context] " Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-10-03 14:32 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2023-10-03 21:08 ` Aditya Mahajan
2023-10-04 7:00 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
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