[NTG-context] intent in \setupbackend

[NTG-context] intent in \setupbackend

[jbf]

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I have a 2022 version of ConTeXt which I have used for the last 3 years. 
It has no problem with:

\setupbackend

[format=PDF/X-1a:2001,

intent=SWOP2006_Coated3v2.icc]

Recently I set up a separate more recent 2025 version of ConTeXt, and I 
get an error with the above intent statement. If I remove intent 
entirely, everything compiles correctly. I don't understand a great deal 
about the 'intent' statement, so bear with my ignorance. For the most 
part, whatever I produce is printed in BW/grayscale, not color.

Two questions:

(1) what has changed with the latest ConTeXt that causes this error with 
that color profile?

(2) If preparing for BW/grayscale printing only, should I be using a 
different profile? I am assuming I cannot simply omit intent= completely.

Julian

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[NTG-context] Re: intent in \setupbackend

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 5/17/25 07:00, jbf wrote:
> [...] 
> Recently I set up a separate more recent 2025 version of ConTeXt, and I
> get an error with the above intent statement. If I remove intent
> entirely, everything compiles correctly.

Hi Julian,

I think this is intended.

> [...] 
> Two questions:
> 
> (1) what has changed with the latest ConTeXt that causes this error with
> that color profile?

https://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/standards.pdf#page=2 (also
included in the distribution).

This includes the explanation of the automatic configuration of intents.

Just in case it might help,

Pablo
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Re: intent in \setupbackend

[jbf]

Thanks Pablo, I had not seen that document. If I understand it 
correctly, I could probably just leave intent=, and leaving it blank?

Julian

On 17/5/25 16:20, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
> This includes the ex
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[NTG-context] Re: intent in \setupbackend

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 5/17/25 09:00, jbf wrote:
> Thanks Pablo, I had not seen that document. If I understand it 
> correctly, I could probably just leave intent=, and leaving it blank?

AfaIk, according to page 3 of that document this prevents inclusion, but
this is normally fine.

I have tested this with a single file and even veraPDF (a validator)
doesn’t complain about this.

But you have to check first whether this is the right thing for you.

Just in case it might help,

Pablo
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Re: intent in \setupbackend

[jbf]

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I have to say that I remain confused about the intent statement. Let me 
explain my confusion. Let's say my preamble says:

\setupbackend

[format=PDF/X-1a:2001,

intent=default]

(or I leave the intent blank), using the latest Context version 
2025.04.28 14:29 LMTX, my log file tells me, amongst other things:

backend         > profiles > using color intent 'sRGB-v4.icc' 
backend         > profiles > using icc profiles 
'sRGB-v4.icc,CGATS001Compat-v2-micro.icc,sGrey-v4.icc' backend         > 
profiles > forcing pdf version 1.3, compression level 3, object 
compression disabled backend         > profiles > permitted colorspaces: 
rgb 'yes', cmyk 'yes' colors          > defining > supported models: 
gray 'true', rgb 'true', cmyk 'true', spot 'true' transparencies  > 
support > transparency is supported

*but I thought that rgb and transparency were not appropriate for PDF/X. 
Am I right about that?*

If I change intent to one of the color profiles listed on 
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Input_and_compilation/PDF/PDFX all of 
them cause an error, either a 'fatal error' which prevents compilation 
(such as SWOP2006_Coated3v2.icc does) or the file compiles, as in the 
case, say, of ISO_Uncoated.icc, but the log reads:

backend > profiles > error, couldn't locate profile 'ISO_Uncoated.icc' 
backend > profiles > invalid output intent 'ISO_Uncoated.icc'

There is clearly something I do not understand about how I should 
indicate the intent. If the items on the web page indicated above are 
'pre-defined output intents', then why don't they work for me? Can 
someone show me exactly how I should fill out the intent= part of 
\setupbackend so that I get a valid PDF/X, or indeed can I simply ignore 
it and just put in default?

Anything I send to print is for grayscale or BW printing, not color. 
What I currently do is to use an older 2022 version of ConTeXt where I 
have the SWOP profile, and I think it is simply ignored. It certainly 
does not cause compilation issues. but the more recent versions do.

Julian

.

On 17/5/25 16:20, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
> On 5/17/25 07:00, jbf wrote:
>> [...]
>> Recently I set up a separate more recent 2025 version of ConTeXt, and I
>> get an error with the above intent statement. If I remove intent
>> entirely, everything compiles correctly.
> Hi Julian,
>
> I think this is intended.
>
>> [...]
>> Two questions:
>>
>> (1) what has changed with the latest ConTeXt that causes this error with
>> that color profile?
> https://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/standards.pdf#page=2 (also
> included in the distribution).
>
> This includes the explanation of the automatic configuration of intents.
>
> Just in case it might help,
>
> Pablo
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist :ntg-context@ntg.nl /https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  :https://www.pragma-ade.nl /https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  :https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     :https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: intent in \setupbackend

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 5/18/25 06:46, jbf wrote:
> I have to say that I remain confused about the intent statement. Let me
> explain my confusion. Let's say my preamble says:
> 
> \setupbackend
> [format=PDF/X-1a:2001,
> intent=default]
> 
> (or I leave the intent blank), using the latest Context version
> 2025.04.28 14:29 LMTX, my log file tells me, amongst other things:
> 
> backend         > profiles > using color intent 'sRGB-v4.icc'

Hi Julian,

this is exactly what
https://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/standards.pdf#page=3 (near
the end of the page) explictly states.

> *but I thought that rgb and transparency were not appropriate for PDF/X.
> Am I right about that?*

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/X, colors in PDF/X-1a
should be CMYK or solid ones (no color composing points of different
basic colors).

I think RBG and transparencies were adopted in later versions.

> If I change intent to one of the color profiles listed on https://
> wiki.contextgarden.net/Input_and_compilation/PDF/PDFX all of them cause
> an error,

And what happens if you set "intent=cmyk" (from the same page as above)?

> There is clearly something I do not understand about how I should
> indicate the intent. If the items on the web page indicated above are
> 'pre-defined output intents', then why don't they work for me? Can
> someone show me exactly how I should fill out the intent= part of
> \setupbackend so that I get a valid PDF/X, or indeed can I simply ignore
> it and just put in default?

"intent=cmyk" should add a CMYK color profile:
CGATS001Compat-v2-micro.icc
(https://github.com/saucecontrol/Compact-ICC-Profiles?tab=readme-ov-file#cmyk).

> Anything I send to print is for grayscale or BW printing, not color.
> What I currently do is to use an older 2022 version of ConTeXt where I
> have the SWOP profile, and I think it is simply ignored. It certainly
> does not cause compilation issues. but the more recent versions do.

According to
https://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/standards.pdf#page=3, with
"intent=cmyk" there is also a gray scale profile added: sGrey-v4.icc
(https://github.com/saucecontrol/Compact-ICC-Profiles?tab=readme-ov-file#greyscale).

BTW, there might be a minor issue with this in the source. But I’m going
to ask in a new thread, since it is really independent.

I hope it helps,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: intent in \setupbackend

[jbf]

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intent=cmyk produces the following in the log file:

backend > profiles > setting format 'PDF/X-1a:2001' to 'PDF/X-1a:2001'

backend > profiles > using color intent 'CGATS001Compat-v2-micro.icc'

backend > profiles > using icc profiles 
'sRGB-v4.icc,CGATS001Compat-v2-micro.icc'

backend > profiles > forcing pdf version 1.3, compression level 3, 
object compression disabled

backend > profiles > permitted colorspaces: rgb 'yes', cmyk 'yes'

colors > defining > supported models: gray 'true', rgb 'true', cmyk 
'true', spot 'true'

transparencies > support > transparency is supported

I guess my question can be reduced to something very simple: is the 
result above acceptable for sending this pdf/x to a printer, given that 
we are printing only in BW/grayscale and that IngramSpark insist on 
pdf/x-1a?

Julian

On 18/5/25 18:10, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
> On 5/18/25 06:46, jbf wrote:
>> I have to say that I remain confused about the intent statement. Let me
>> explain my confusion. Let's say my preamble says:
>>
>> \setupbackend
>> [format=PDF/X-1a:2001,
>> intent=default]
>>
>> (or I leave the intent blank), using the latest Context version
>> 2025.04.28 14:29 LMTX, my log file tells me, amongst other things:
>>
>> backend         > profiles > using color intent 'sRGB-v4.icc'
> Hi Julian,
>
> this is exactly what
> https://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/standards.pdf#page=3 (near
> the end of the page) explictly states.
>
>> *but I thought that rgb and transparency were not appropriate for PDF/X.
>> Am I right about that?*
> According tohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/X, colors in PDF/X-1a
> should be CMYK or solid ones (no color composing points of different
> basic colors).
>
> I think RBG and transparencies were adopted in later versions.
>
>> If I change intent to one of the color profiles listed on https://
>> wiki.contextgarden.net/Input_and_compilation/PDF/PDFX all of them cause
>> an error,
> And what happens if you set "intent=cmyk" (from the same page as above)?
>
>> There is clearly something I do not understand about how I should
>> indicate the intent. If the items on the web page indicated above are
>> 'pre-defined output intents', then why don't they work for me? Can
>> someone show me exactly how I should fill out the intent= part of
>> \setupbackend so that I get a valid PDF/X, or indeed can I simply ignore
>> it and just put in default?
> "intent=cmyk" should add a CMYK color profile:
> CGATS001Compat-v2-micro.icc
> (https://github.com/saucecontrol/Compact-ICC-Profiles?tab=readme-ov-file#cmyk).
>
>> Anything I send to print is for grayscale or BW printing, not color.
>> What I currently do is to use an older 2022 version of ConTeXt where I
>> have the SWOP profile, and I think it is simply ignored. It certainly
>> does not cause compilation issues. but the more recent versions do.
> According to
> https://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/standards.pdf#page=3, with
> "intent=cmyk" there is also a gray scale profile added: sGrey-v4.icc
> (https://github.com/saucecontrol/Compact-ICC-Profiles?tab=readme-ov-file#greyscale).
>
> BTW, there might be a minor issue with this in the source. But I’m going
> to ask in a new thread, since it is really independent.
>
> I hope it helps,
>
> Pablo
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist :ntg-context@ntg.nl /https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  :https://www.pragma-ade.nl /https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  :https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     :https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: intent in \setupbackend

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 5/18/25 10:46, jbf wrote:
> [...] 
> I guess my question can be reduced to something very simple: is the
> result above acceptable for sending this pdf/x to a printer, given that
> we are printing only in BW/grayscale and that IngramSpark insist on pdf/
> x-1a?

In that case, how about the following?

\setupbackend
   [format=PDF/X-1a:2001,
    intent=sGrey-v4.icc,
    profile=sGrey-v4.icc]

Not sure whether this makes complete sense, but both you color profile
and your output intent are grayscale.

Pablo
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: intent in \setupbackend

[jbf]

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That,  Pablo, produces:

backend > profiles > setting format 'PDF/X-1a:2001' to 'PDF/X-1a:2001'

backend > profiles > forcing pdf version 1.3, compression level 3, 
object compression disabled

backend > profiles > permitted colorspaces: rgb 'yes', cmyk 'yes'

colors > defining > supported models: gray 'true', rgb 'true', cmyk 
'true', spot 'true'

transparencies > support > transparency is supported

Again, I ask: is this acceptable for pdf/x-1a? In other words, if rgb is 
permitted and transparency is supported, is this acceptable?

Julian

On 18/5/25 19:06, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
> On 5/18/25 10:46, jbf wrote:
>> [...]
>> I guess my question can be reduced to something very simple: is the
>> result above acceptable for sending this pdf/x to a printer, given that
>> we are printing only in BW/grayscale and that IngramSpark insist on pdf/
>> x-1a?
> In that case, how about the following?
>
> \setupbackend
>     [format=PDF/X-1a:2001,
>      intent=sGrey-v4.icc,
>      profile=sGrey-v4.icc]
>
> Not sure whether this makes complete sense, but both you color profile
> and your output intent are grayscale.
>
> Pablo
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist :ntg-context@ntg.nl /https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  :https://www.pragma-ade.nl /https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  :https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     :https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: intent in \setupbackend

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 5/18/25 11:13, jbf wrote:
> [...]
> In other words, if rgb is permitted and transparency is supported,
> is this acceptable?

Sorry, Julian, but I took the following for granted and it’s important
that I make it clear first.

I tried to help, but I’m able to do it only to a certain extent. This is
similar to “I’m not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice”, I’m not a
(printer|PDF/X validator) and this cannot be printing advice (only some
information).

PDF/X are a series of ISO standards. I don’t have the resources (mainly,
time and income) to spend 105€ (my currency) in less than twenty pages
(to end having a hard time to even understand them). Besides, I have
myself no use for it.

In theory, you cannot have rgb and transparency in PDF/X-1a. But as
theory and practice may only differ in practice, it might be different
in practice.

Here comes my personal take on the PDF/X-1a format for \setupbackend.

If your PDF document is validated against the standard (using a
program), it may be automatically rejected.

But if it isn’t, your document may have no problem as long as it doesn’t
contain other than grayscale colors and the grayscale output intent and
color profile.

Again, this is as far as I understand. Sorry, but it is beyond my
knowledge and I cannot pretend I know what IngramSpark will do with the
PDF document you send them.

I hope it is clearer now,

Pablo
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: intent in \setupbackend

[jbf]

Thanks, Pablo, I fully understand the situation... since mine is much 
the same. I only use open source and as far as possible free software 
and I cannot afford expensive validating software (which I presume is 
Adobe Pro or the likes thereof).

In the end, I have to leave it to the print company to sort out any 
problem, but I just happen to be one of those people who try to 
understand what I am doing, and try to deal with problems as they arise, 
especially if I have log files in front of me that indicate an error.

It seems a bit strange to me that if I choose (have to choose in my 
case) PDF/X-1a, and I need to indicate an intent, that I cannot easily 
find a color profile that fits it and that does not cause the ConTeXt 
log file to indicate either a fatal error (meaning I can no longer 
proceed without changing something) or an error that still allows 
compilation but says things like such-and-such a color profile is not 
found...; or that indeed compiles, but still tells me that transparency 
is supported, even if this is not according to the PDF/X standard.

Yes, these standards are complex issues, so thank you for doing your 
best to explain things to me. I still appeal to someone out there who 
can indicate just what kind of intent I can use for PDF/X-1a that will 
comply with the standard that says I may not have rgb or transparency.

Julian

On 18/5/25 21:16, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
> On 5/18/25 11:13, jbf wrote:
>> [...]
>> In other words, if rgb is permitted and transparency is supported,
>> is this acceptable?
> Sorry, Julian, but I took the following for granted and it’s important
> that I make it clear first.
>
> I tried to help, but I’m able to do it only to a certain extent. This is
> similar to “I’m not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice”, I’m not a
> (printer|PDF/X validator) and this cannot be printing advice (only some
> information).
>
> PDF/X are a series of ISO standards. I don’t have the resources (mainly,
> time and income) to spend 105€ (my currency) in less than twenty pages
> (to end having a hard time to even understand them). Besides, I have
> myself no use for it.
>
> In theory, you cannot have rgb and transparency in PDF/X-1a. But as
> theory and practice may only differ in practice, it might be different
> in practice.
>
> Here comes my personal take on the PDF/X-1a format for \setupbackend.
>
> If your PDF document is validated against the standard (using a
> program), it may be automatically rejected.
>
> But if it isn’t, your document may have no problem as long as it doesn’t
> contain other than grayscale colors and the grayscale output intent and
> color profile.
>
> Again, this is as far as I understand. Sorry, but it is beyond my
> knowledge and I cannot pretend I know what IngramSpark will do with the
> PDF document you send them.
>
> I hope it is clearer now,
>
> Pablo
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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___________________________________________________________________________________