How to \bf for math?

How to \bf for math?

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hello,

What exactly is the ConTeXt alternative to LaTeX's \mathbf (switch to
bold or bold italic math fonts)?

(Btw: is it better to use bold or bold italic for typesetting vectors?
We use "overrightharpoonup", so I don't know what an international
standard says.)

I understand the main commands for switching the font in text (rm, tt,
ss for family and tf, sl, it, bf, bs, bi, sc + an optional
x/xx/a/b/c/d), but I didn't understand yet what to use for math.

~~~
As an intermezzo: is there any way to ger small caps slanted? \sc will
do the small caps, but \sl switches to normal slanted font (no small
caps) again. I suppose that the current model (set of current font
definitions) doesn't account for the possibility of using small caps
slanted or small caps bold (slanted). Is there any elegant way to do
that, for example by defining new commands such as \scbf, \scit, \scbi
[+ xx/x/a/b/c/d]? (I can still use other tricks to get those fonts,
but some general scheme for using them could be useful for others as
well.)
~~~

I tried to use the examples described in mfonts.pdf, but I can't get
those examples working. (I probably used too few definitions when more
definitions are required at once to make the examples work.)
I also tried the command from one of Adam's articles,
\def\mfunction#1{{\em#1}}, to get italic euler math font, but without
success.

I managed to use "bold math" as a whole (on the example of iwona which
has different weights of math fonts):
\starttypescript [math] [iwona-heavy] [default]
  \definefontsynonym [Iwona-Math-Letters-Heavy]       [rm-iwonah]
  \definefontsynonym [Iwona-Math-Letters-HeavyItalic] [mi-iwonahi]
  \definefontsynonym [Iwona-Math-Symbols-Heavy]       [sy-iwonahz]
  \definefontsynonym [Iwona-Math-Extension-Heavy]     [ex-iwonah]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript [math] [iwona-heavy] [name]
  \definefontsynonym [MathRoman]     [Iwona-Math-Letters-Heavy]
  \definefontsynonym [MathItalic]    [Iwona-Math-Letters-HeavyItalic]
  \definefontsynonym [MathSymbol]    [Iwona-Math-Symbols-Heavy]
  \definefontsynonym [MathExtension] [Iwona-Math-Extension-Heavy]
\stoptypescript
\definetypeface [iwona] [mm] [math] [iwona-heavy] [default]

But I can't get ant further than that, so that I could switch between
"thin" and "bold".

I tried
\starttypescript [boldmath] [iwona-heavy] [name]
  \definefontsynonym [MathRomanBold]     [Iwona-Math-Letters-Heavy]
...
\starttypescript %[boldmath] [iwona-heavy] [default]
	\definebodyfont [boldmath] [mm]
	[(bf)mr=MathRomanBold mo 1, ...]
...
and different settings in starttypescript/definebody font ... but no
success at all.

I would like to create some definitions, so that I could easily say
(write a command) "I want the light version for regular math and the
regular font for bold math" or "I want the regular version for regular
and the heavy version for bold math".

Thanks a lot for help,
    Mojca

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> What exactly is the ConTeXt alternative to LaTeX's \mathbf (switch to
> bold or bold italic math fonts)?

I can't help you here, but did you read http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ 
Bold_Math ?

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Mojca Miklavec]

Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> > What exactly is the ConTeXt alternative to LaTeX's \mathbf (switch to
> > bold or bold italic math fonts)?
>
> I can't help you here, but did you read http://wiki.contextgarden.net/
> Bold_Math ?

I tried a couple of tricks, but none of them resulted in bold italic iwona.
If I use the default font (cm), \bfm does nothing, \bf and \bi work.

I'm also able to get the complete formula typeset in bold iwona, but I
don't know how to get something like $-{\bf\nabla}\phi={\bi E}$, where
\phi would be typeset in iwona-light and the rest in iwona-heavy for
example.

The best I can get are bold (italic) cm fonts at that place.

Some examples in the manual simply switch the "fontface" within the
formula, but I'm a bit lost in many instructions. Seems like I forgot
some definitions, but I don't know which ones since some examples in
the manuals work because there are some other definitions already
present in the core.
(I will play a bit more, perhaps I'll find a solution somehow.)

Thanks,
    Mojca

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>  
>
>>>What exactly is the ConTeXt alternative to LaTeX's \mathbf (switch to
>>>bold or bold italic math fonts)?
>>>      
>>>
>>I can't help you here, but did you read http://wiki.contextgarden.net/
>>Bold_Math ?
>>    
>>
>
>I tried a couple of tricks, but none of them resulted in bold italic iwona.
>If I use the default font (cm), \bfm does nothing, \bf and \bi work.
>
>I'm also able to get the complete formula typeset in bold iwona, but I
>don't know how to get something like $-{\bf\nabla}\phi={\bi E}$, where
>\phi would be typeset in iwona-light and the rest in iwona-heavy for
>example.
>  
>

taco is the math expert ...

one problem with math is that there are several passes in tex and that 
the fonts that are set last may influence previous switches (just one 
set of families, global within a math environments)

maybe a way out is something \hbox{\yourboldiwona$...$}

another way would be to especially define bf and bi to map onto the 
iwona instances that you want

(for a real mixed functionality we need to patch tex the program)

[ok, i can imagine some kind of dynamic family pool, but for that i need 
some real time and motivation)

Hans

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Taco Hoekwater]

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Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> taco is the math expert ...

At the moment, I don't understand this math vs. typescript stuff
any better than the next person, I'm afraid. There are a number of
(perhaps conflicting?) ways of getting 'bold math' in your text,
and I have not the faintest clue which one is 'right'.

In the special case of iwona, it should be as simple as

    \hbox{\switchtobodyfont[iwona-medium]$...$}

or even

    \hbox{\switchtobodyfont[iwona-heavy]$...$}

but that needs a extensions to the typescripts.

See attachment for example and that extra typescript code.

Cheers, Taco

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Re: How to \bf for math?

[Mojca Miklavec]

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Taco, thanks for the answer. I managed to change the whole math family
into bold, but I can't get the following example working:

\switchtobodyfont[iwona-light,ss]
$$normal {\bf bold}{\bfm bold}{\bfmath bold}$$

\bf and \bfmath result in cm fonts, \bfm has no influence, no matter
what I tried to do. I grep-ed for bfmath and boldmath and tried to
replace them, but no success at all. See the attached file for my
attempts.

Thanks,
    Mojca

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Re: How to \bf for math?

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >I'm also able to get the complete formula typeset in bold iwona, but I
> >don't know how to get something like $-{\bf\nabla}\phi={\bi E}$, where
> >\phi would be typeset in iwona-light and the rest in iwona-heavy for
> >example.
>
> maybe a way out is something \hbox{\yourboldiwona$...$}

This works of course, but I don't want to write something like
(minimal example ;)
$$\hbox{\switchtobodyfont[iwona-heavy]$B$}=\hbox{\switchtobodyfont[iwona-heavy]$\nabla$}\times\hbox{\switchtobodyfont[iwona-heavy]$A$}$$
even if I define my own shortcut to it.
(\displaystyle, \textstyle, ... spacing, readability unless I can
redefine \bf and so on ...)

> another way would be to especially define bf and bi to map onto the
> iwona instances that you want

That's what I'm looking for, but I can't find that magical piece of
code in huge typescripts definitions.

> (for a real mixed functionality we need to patch tex the program)
>
> [ok, i can imagine some kind of dynamic family pool, but for that i need
> some real time and motivation)

No, I really don't need that complex solution. My needs are already
covered by the "MyWay" with bold math and in cm bold math works as
well. It's just that I can't read the manual / cannot repeat the
process and get rid of cm fonts.

Thanks a lot,
    Mojca

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Taco Hoekwater]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> ..... I grep-ed for bfmath and boldmath and tried to
> replace them, but no success at all. See the attached file for my
> attempts.

Yeah, that's what got me confused as well.

I'll try to sort all this bold/not bold/fake bold/wrong bold math
out (unless someone else volunteers :-)) and report back in a few
days.

Taco

Re: How to \bf for math?

[David Munger]

Hi Mojca,

I must say I understand about nothing about fonts in ConTeXt. But I've
somehow managed do define a "bold vector" command, working in my
environment. I hope it helps.



\definetypeface [boldmath] [mm] [boldmath] [latin-modern] [default]

% boldsymbol work-around

\setupformulae[method=bold]
\define[1]\boldsymbol{\hbox{\formula[boldmath]{#1}}}
\define[1]\boldsymbolscript{\hbox{\formula[boldmath,script]{#1}}}
\define[1]\boldsymbolscriptscript{\hbox{\formula[boldmath,scriptscript]{#1}}}

% bold vector

\define[1]\bvec{{%
  \mathchoice
    {\let\bs=\boldsymbol}%
    {\let\bs=\boldsymbol}%
    {\let\bs=\boldsymbolscript}%
    {\let\bs=\boldsymbolscripscript}%
  \bs{#1}}}



Mojca Miklavec :
> Hello,
> 
> What exactly is the ConTeXt alternative to LaTeX's \mathbf (switch to
> bold or bold italic math fonts)?

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Adam Lindsay]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> Taco, thanks for the answer. I managed to change the whole math family
> into bold, but I can't get the following example working:
> 
> \switchtobodyfont[iwona-light,ss]
> $$normal {\bf bold}{\bfm bold}{\bfmath bold}$$
> 
> \bf and \bfmath result in cm fonts, \bfm has no influence, no matter
> what I tried to do. I grep-ed for bfmath and boldmath and tried to
> replace them, but no success at all. See the attached file for my
> attempts.

Okay, thanks to some off-list prodding, I took a look. Mojca, you 
weren't too far off. Simply following the recipe for lucida got me most 
of the way there, but the normal letters didn't get inflected (bold-ed).
When I explicitly defined the alphabet, then the rest of the problems I 
saw got solved.

Try this out with a lot more test cases, and report back. If it's okay, 
then it should be easy to formalise it into a robust, more complete set 
of typescripts...

\startmathcollection[default] %eventual patch for math-tex?
\definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mi] ["61]
\definemathcharacter [b]   [nothing] [mi] ["62]
\definemathcharacter [c]   [nothing] [mi] ["63]
\definemathcharacter [d]   [nothing] [mi] ["64]
\definemathcharacter [e]   [nothing] [mi] ["65]
\definemathcharacter [f]   [nothing] [mi] ["66]
\definemathcharacter [g]   [nothing] [mi] ["67]
\definemathcharacter [h]   [nothing] [mi] ["68]
\definemathcharacter [i]   [nothing] [mi] ["69]
\definemathcharacter [j]   [nothing] [mi] ["6A]
\definemathcharacter [k]   [nothing] [mi] ["6B]
\definemathcharacter [l]   [nothing] [mi] ["6C]
\definemathcharacter [m]   [nothing] [mi] ["6D]
\definemathcharacter [n]   [nothing] [mi] ["6E]
\definemathcharacter [o]   [nothing] [mi] ["6F]
\definemathcharacter [p]   [nothing] [mi] ["70]
\definemathcharacter [q]   [nothing] [mi] ["71]
\definemathcharacter [r]   [nothing] [mi] ["72]
\definemathcharacter [s]   [nothing] [mi] ["73]
\definemathcharacter [t]   [nothing] [mi] ["74]
\definemathcharacter [u]   [nothing] [mi] ["75]
\definemathcharacter [v]   [nothing] [mi] ["76]
\definemathcharacter [w]   [nothing] [mi] ["77]
\definemathcharacter [x]   [nothing] [mi] ["78]
\definemathcharacter [y]   [nothing] [mi] ["79]
\definemathcharacter [z]   [nothing] [mi] ["7A]
\definemathcharacter [A]   [nothing] [mi] ["41]
\definemathcharacter [B]   [nothing] [mi] ["42]
\definemathcharacter [C]   [nothing] [mi] ["43]
\definemathcharacter [D]   [nothing] [mi] ["44]
\definemathcharacter [E]   [nothing] [mi] ["45]
\definemathcharacter [F]   [nothing] [mi] ["46]
\definemathcharacter [G]   [nothing] [mi] ["47]
\definemathcharacter [H]   [nothing] [mi] ["48]
\definemathcharacter [I]   [nothing] [mi] ["49]
\definemathcharacter [J]   [nothing] [mi] ["4A]
\definemathcharacter [K]   [nothing] [mi] ["4B]
\definemathcharacter [L]   [nothing] [mi] ["4C]
\definemathcharacter [M]   [nothing] [mi] ["4D]
\definemathcharacter [N]   [nothing] [mi] ["4E]
\definemathcharacter [O]   [nothing] [mi] ["4F]
\definemathcharacter [P]   [nothing] [mi] ["50]
\definemathcharacter [Q]   [nothing] [mi] ["51]
\definemathcharacter [R]   [nothing] [mi] ["52]
\definemathcharacter [S]   [nothing] [mi] ["53]
\definemathcharacter [T]   [nothing] [mi] ["54]
\definemathcharacter [U]   [nothing] [mi] ["55]
\definemathcharacter [V]   [nothing] [mi] ["56]
\definemathcharacter [W]   [nothing] [mi] ["57]
\definemathcharacter [X]   [nothing] [mi] ["58]
\definemathcharacter [Y]   [nothing] [mi] ["59]
\definemathcharacter [Z]   [nothing] [mi] ["5A]
\stopmathcollection

\starttypescript [bfmath,boldmath] [iwona] [ec,texnansi]
                                  % we want this in iwona namespace
   \definefontsynonym [Iwona-Math-Letters-Heavy]       [rm-iwonah]
   \definefontsynonym [Iwona-Math-Letters-HeavyItalic] [mi-iwonahi]
   \definefontsynonym [Iwona-Math-Symbols-Heavy]       [sy-iwonahz]
   \definefontsynonym [Iwona-Math-Extension-Heavy]     [ex-iwonah]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [boldmath] [iwona] [name]
                                              % we don't use this yet
   \definefontsynonym [MathRoman]     [Iwona-Math-Letters-Heavy]
   \definefontsynonym [MathItalic]    [Iwona-Math-Letters-HeavyItalic]
   \definefontsynonym [MathSymbol]    [Iwona-Math-Symbols-Heavy]
   \definefontsynonym [MathExtension] [Iwona-Math-Extension-Heavy]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [bfmath] [iwona] [name]
                          % key typescript, with MathRomanBold et al
   \definefontsynonym [MathRomanBold]     [Iwona-Math-Letters-Heavy]
   \definefontsynonym [MathItalicBold]    [Iwona-Math-Letters-HeavyItalic]
   \definefontsynonym [MathSymbolBold]    [Iwona-Math-Symbols-Heavy]
   \definefontsynonym [MathExtensionBold] [Iwona-Math-Extension-Heavy]
\stoptypescript


\setupformulas  [method=bold]     % magical incantation

\usetypescript [iwona] [texnansi] % defined in type-exa

\definetypeface [iwona] [mm] [bfmath] [iwona] [default]
                                   % add to the loaded typeface

\setupbodyfont[iwona]  % and go

\starttext
\startformula
n({\bfm a} + {\bfm b}) = {\bfm \Gamma}
\stopformula
\startformula
1 \theta \Gamma = {\bfm 1 \beta \Gamma \alpha ' xP} x
\stopformula
\startformula
1 \theta \Gamma = {1 \beta \Gamma \alpha ' x} x
\stopformula
\stoptext

[apologies for the length, you digest readers...]
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
  Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Adam Lindsay]

Adam Lindsay wrote:

> \startmathcollection[default] %eventual patch for math-tex?
> \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mi] ["61]
> \definemathcharacter [b]   [nothing] [mi] ["62]
> \definemathcharacter [c]   [nothing] [mi] ["63]
> \definemathcharacter [d]   [nothing] [mi] ["64]
> \definemathcharacter [e]   [nothing] [mi] ["65]
...

Interesting. With these definitions in place, getting mixed bold in cmr 
math is a lot better, too...

\definetypeface [] [mm] [bfmath] [computer-modern] [computer-modern]
\setupformulas [method=bold]

\starttext
\startformula
n({\bfm a} + {\bfm b}) = {\bfm \Gamma}
\stopformula
\stoptext

Now, do digits ever get bold-ed in mixed bold and regular math?
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
  Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
  Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Taco Hoekwater]

Adam Lindsay wrote:
> Now, do digits ever get bold-ed in mixed bold and regular math?

AFAIK, only in courseware (and perhaps other explanatory texts,
like errata). There, the required emphasis can be anything, really,
but nobody would object to a \hbox{} wrapper either.

Cheers, Taco

Re: How to \bf for math?

[David Munger]

Very interesting, but with these definitions, I can't get roman
characters in formulae. For the moment, the best solution for me is
still the hbox wrapper.

David

> Adam Lindsay wrote:
> 
> > \startmathcollection[default] %eventual patch for math-tex?
> > \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mi] ["61]
> > \definemathcharacter [b]   [nothing] [mi] ["62]
> > \definemathcharacter [c]   [nothing] [mi] ["63]
> > \definemathcharacter [d]   [nothing] [mi] ["64]
> > \definemathcharacter [e]   [nothing] [mi] ["65]
> ...
> 
> Interesting. With these definitions in place, getting mixed bold in cmr 
> math is a lot better, too...
> 
> \definetypeface [] [mm] [bfmath] [computer-modern] [computer-modern]
> \setupformulas [method=bold]
> 
> \starttext
> \startformula
> n({\bfm a} + {\bfm b}) = {\bfm \Gamma}
> \stopformula
> \stoptext
> 
> Now, do digits ever get bold-ed in mixed bold and regular math?

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Adam Lindsay]

David Munger wrote:
> Very interesting, but with these definitions, I can't get roman
> characters in formulae. For the moment, the best solution for me is
> still the hbox wrapper.

Okay.
What do you mean by "can't get roman characters"? Can you give an 
minimal example?

adam

>> Adam Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> \startmathcollection[default] %eventual patch for math-tex?
>>> \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mi] ["61]
>>> \definemathcharacter [b]   [nothing] [mi] ["62]
>>> \definemathcharacter [c]   [nothing] [mi] ["63]
>>> \definemathcharacter [d]   [nothing] [mi] ["64]
>>> \definemathcharacter [e]   [nothing] [mi] ["65]
>> ...
>>
>> Interesting. With these definitions in place, getting mixed bold in cmr 
>> math is a lot better, too...
>>
>> \definetypeface [] [mm] [bfmath] [computer-modern] [computer-modern]
>> \setupformulas [method=bold]
>>
>> \starttext
>> \startformula
>> n({\bfm a} + {\bfm b}) = {\bfm \Gamma}
>> \stopformula
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Now, do digits ever get bold-ed in mixed bold and regular math?
> 
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> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
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=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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  Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
  Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: How to \bf for math?

[David Munger]

Adam Lindsay wrote :
> David Munger wrote:
> > Very interesting, but with these definitions, I can't get roman
> > characters in formulae. For the moment, the best solution for me is
> > still the hbox wrapper.
> 
> Okay.
> What do you mean by "can't get roman characters"? Can you give an 
> minimal example?
> 
> adam

Sorry, I should have given one.

\startmathcollection[default]
\definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mi] ["61]
\stopmathcollection

\definetypeface [] [mm] [bfmath] [computer-modern] [computer-modern]
\setupformulas [method=bold]

\starttext
\formula{a, {\rm a}, {\bfm a}, {\bfm\rm a}}
\stoptext

I can't get bold roman math. And by using [mr] instead of [mi]:
\definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mr] ["61]
one gets the inverse problem: no more bold math italic.

David

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Adam Lindsay]

David Munger wrote:
> Adam Lindsay wrote :
>> David Munger wrote:
>>> Very interesting, but with these definitions, I can't get roman
>>> characters in formulae. For the moment, the best solution for me is
>>> still the hbox wrapper.
>> Okay.
>> What do you mean by "can't get roman characters"? Can you give an 
>> minimal example?
>>
>> adam
> 
> Sorry, I should have given one.
> 
> \startmathcollection[default]
> \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mi] ["61]
> \stopmathcollection
> 
> \definetypeface [] [mm] [bfmath] [computer-modern] [computer-modern]
> \setupformulas [method=bold]
> 
> \starttext
> \formula{a, {\rm a}, {\bfm a}, {\bfm\rm a}}
> \stoptext
> 
> I can't get bold roman math. And by using [mr] instead of [mi]:
> \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mr] ["61]
> one gets the inverse problem: no more bold math italic.

oh, I see. I'll admit: all the maths I've dealt with don't require such 
fine manual control over the fonts.

Would it be for individual characters? Would an approach like this work?
\formula{a, {\rm a}, {\bfm a}, \text{\bf a}}

adam
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
  Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
  Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: How to \bf for math?

[David Munger]

Adam Lindsay wrote :
> David Munger wrote:
> > Adam Lindsay wrote :
> >> David Munger wrote:
> >>> Very interesting, but with these definitions, I can't get roman
> >>> characters in formulae. For the moment, the best solution for me is
> >>> still the hbox wrapper.
> >> Okay.
> >> What do you mean by "can't get roman characters"? Can you give an 
> >> minimal example?
> >>
> >> adam
> > 
> > Sorry, I should have given one.
> > 
> > \startmathcollection[default]
> > \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mi] ["61]
> > \stopmathcollection
> > 
> > \definetypeface [] [mm] [bfmath] [computer-modern] [computer-modern]
> > \setupformulas [method=bold]
> > 
> > \starttext
> > \formula{a, {\rm a}, {\bfm a}, {\bfm\rm a}}
> > \stoptext
> > 
> > I can't get bold roman math. And by using [mr] instead of [mi]:
> > \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mr] ["61]
> > one gets the inverse problem: no more bold math italic.
> 
> oh, I see. I'll admit: all the maths I've dealt with don't require such 
> fine manual control over the fonts.

Well, sometimes it's useful when dealing with different kinds of objects
such as vectors and tensors.

> Would it be for individual characters? Would an approach like this work?
> \formula{a, {\rm a}, {\bfm a}, \text{\bf a}}

Yes, of course. This happens to be an \hbox. My point is simply that we
have not come to a general solution yet, we are just finding different
workarounds to suit our personal needs, which is not bad indeed.

Cheers,

David

Re: How to \bf for math?

[Hans Hagen]

Adam Lindsay wrote:
> David Munger wrote:
>   
>> Adam Lindsay wrote :
>>     
>>> David Munger wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Very interesting, but with these definitions, I can't get roman
>>>> characters in formulae. For the moment, the best solution for me is
>>>> still the hbox wrapper.
>>>>         
>>> Okay.
>>> What do you mean by "can't get roman characters"? Can you give an 
>>> minimal example?
>>>
>>> adam
>>>       
>> Sorry, I should have given one.
>>
>> \startmathcollection[default]
>> \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mi] ["61]
>> \stopmathcollection
>>
>> \definetypeface [] [mm] [bfmath] [computer-modern] [computer-modern]
>> \setupformulas [method=bold]
>>
>> \starttext
>> \formula{a, {\rm a}, {\bfm a}, {\bfm\rm a}}
>> \stoptext
>>
>> I can't get bold roman math. And by using [mr] instead of [mi]:
>> \definemathcharacter [a]   [nothing] [mr] ["61]
>> one gets the inverse problem: no more bold math italic.
>>     
>
> oh, I see. I'll admit: all the maths I've dealt with don't require such 
> fine manual control over the fonts.
>
> Would it be for individual characters? Would an approach like this work?
> \formula{a, {\rm a}, {\bfm a}, \text{\bf a}}
>   
just keep collecting all thoughts and ideas and solutions .... 

(concerning the definemathcharacters, we need input from taco on that because he knows what goes on deep inside tex and has done complex math typesetting for ages) 

Hans 

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Re: How to \bf for math?

[Taco Hoekwater]

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Hans Hagen wrote:

> (concerning the definemathcharacters, we need input from taco on that
> because he knows what goes on deep inside tex and has done complex
> math typesetting for ages)

The \definemathcharacter macro is a actually quite simple, it is
mostly a  syntactic wrapper around \mathcode and \delcode assignments.
See the attached chunk of --module documentation text.

Whether mixed bold/unbold math is feasible depends mostly on two things:
* if bold symbolic fonts are available (math italic, symbol and
   extension)
* how you define the variable symbols (latin characters) and
   font switches.

Normally, an 'a' is of mathtype 'variable' (7), so that if you do
${\bf a}$, you get a bold (fam 6) one instead of the one from the
math italic (fam 1).
When you redefine its mathcode so it becomes an `ord' (0) in a
`bold math italic' family (say 'A' or so. You cannot use \bi since
that is a match for \it, and it will not have the same spacing
rules!); afterward it no longer obey font switches.

If you want to get back to the upright version in such a setup,
you have to redefine te \rm command to change the math family code
yet again, to 'ord' in upright math (fam 0), this time.

All this shuffling about with mathcodes is needed because during a
single formula, TeX stores tokens in the form (family id, chararacter).
Only at the very end of the formula are the families themselves
mapped to fonts (and the tokens converted to using those fonts),
so changing the \textfont0 etc. assignments while in the formula
does not help.

I hope this is clear enough.

Cheers, Taco


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