Font sizes using Chinese module

Font sizes using Chinese module

[Duncan Hothersall]

Hello all. I hope this is quite a simple question.

I'm using the Chinese module, with the font definitions in font-chi.tex, 
to typeset UTF-8 content. I can happily use the default sizes a, b, c, d 
and x, xx, xxx - so \bfd produces large bold, and \tfx produces small 
normal weight text.

But I really need to be able to do the equivalent of \definedfont[Bold 
at 48pt]. Unfortunately this doesn't work - it produces normal text size 
and weight.

Unfortunately it isn't easy to post an example, because you need UTF-8 
content, and you need the fonts set up for Chinese (which I believe 
ConTeXt Live doesn't currently have). So I'm hoping that someone 
familiar with the workings of font-chi.tex can tell me how to get 
specific point sizes of specific fonts. Is there a unicode font 
equivalent of \definedfont? Or a way of adding an e and f size 
definition to the default set?

Any help would be really appreciated, thanks.

Duncan
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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Hans Hagen]

Duncan Hothersall wrote:

> equivalent of \definedfont? Or a way of adding an e and f size 
> definition to the default set?

\definefontsize[e]

\setupfontenvironment
   [default]
   [e=4]

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 11/7/07, Duncan Hothersall wrote:
> Hello all. I hope this is quite a simple question.
>
> But I really need to be able to do the equivalent of \definedfont[Bold
> at 48pt]. Unfortunately this doesn't work - it produces normal text size
> and weight.

I have absolutely no experience and/or knowledge about Chinese and its
typesetting, but perhaps something like
    \definedfont[SimplifiedChineseBold at 48pt] could work?

> Unfortunately it isn't easy to post an example, because you need UTF-8
> content, and you need the fonts set up for Chinese (which I believe
> ConTeXt Live doesn't currently have). So I'm hoping that someone
> familiar with the workings of font-chi.tex can tell me how to get
> specific point sizes of specific fonts. Is there a unicode font
> equivalent of \definedfont? Or a way of adding an e and f size
> definition to the default set?

Btw: Is there any reason for not using XeTeX (or LuaTeX in the future)
for Chinese? (To be honest: I have absolutely no idea whether it works
and how good it works if at all, but I would expect less problems
there.)

Mojca
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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> Btw: Is there any reason for not using XeTeX (or LuaTeX in the future)
> for Chinese? (To be honest: I have absolutely no idea whether it works
> and how good it works if at all, but I would expect less problems
> there.)

  XeTeX can use Chinese fonts since the first day :-) I remember
Jonathan trying it out during TUG in Wuhan over two years ago ...

  By the way, yesterday there was a thread about the LaTeX zhspacing
package on the XeTeX list, and I was wondering if its features were
already present in ConTeXt's Chinese module; if not, it probably
wouldn't be so much work to “port” it.

	Arthur
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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> Btw: Is there any reason for not using XeTeX (or LuaTeX in the future)
> for Chinese? (To be honest: I have absolutely no idea whether it works
> and how good it works if at all, but I would expect less problems
> there.)

i bet that duncan uses it in some workflow that has to be stable i.e. no 
moving targets like xetex or luatex (yet)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Hans Hagen]

Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>> Btw: Is there any reason for not using XeTeX (or LuaTeX in the future)
>> for Chinese? (To be honest: I have absolutely no idea whether it works
>> and how good it works if at all, but I would expect less problems
>> there.)
> 
>   XeTeX can use Chinese fonts since the first day :-) I remember
> Jonathan trying it out during TUG in Wuhan over two years ago ...
> 
>   By the way, yesterday there was a thread about the LaTeX zhspacing
> package on the XeTeX list, and I was wondering if its features were
> already present in ConTeXt's Chinese module; if not, it probably
> wouldn't be so much work to “port” it.

there is some spacing support in the mkiv files (but not yet finished, i 
will pick up that cjk thread when the next beta is finished)

i dunno about zaspacing (and also am not sure about supporting it) 
because it probably uses this 'code-between-characters' mechanism; it 
only makes sense to support that when i make some interface for it and 
it's one of those areas where xetex code is rather different from luatex 
code

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 11/7/07, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
> > Btw: Is there any reason for not using XeTeX (or LuaTeX in the future)
> > for Chinese? (To be honest: I have absolutely no idea whether it works
> > and how good it works if at all, but I would expect less problems
> > there.)
>
> i bet that duncan uses it in some workflow that has to be stable i.e. no
> moving targets like xetex or luatex (yet)

That's certainly true for LuaTeX, but XeTeX is really not *so
unstable*. I agree, font support has been (and still is a bit) broken
until recently (and Leopard users report serious problems with
xdvipdfmx), but the rest of problems seems approximately equally
buggy/problematic to me as the rest of ConTeXt  :) :) :) :)


Only as a suggestion: could someone who has managed to "install"
Chinese fonts and map files successfully, upload the needed files to
http://modules.contextgarden.net/, so that it would be easier for
other users to take "ready-to-start-using" module rather than having
to read dozens of pages of how to get started?

In that case, supporting "Chinese on the garden" could be done right
away if needed (perhaps we need to enable third party modules on the
garden, which is really not so difficult to do).

Mojca
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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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2007/11/7, Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com>:
> On 11/7/07, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >
> > > Btw: Is there any reason for not using XeTeX (or LuaTeX in the future)
> > > for Chinese? (To be honest: I have absolutely no idea whether it works
> > > and how good it works if at all, but I would expect less problems
> > > there.)
> >
> > i bet that duncan uses it in some workflow that has to be stable i.e. no
> > moving targets like xetex or luatex (yet)
>
> That's certainly true for LuaTeX, but XeTeX is really not *so
> unstable*. I agree, font support has been (and still is a bit) broken
> until recently (and Leopard users report serious problems with
> xdvipdfmx), but the rest of problems seems approximately equally
> buggy/problematic to me as the rest of ConTeXt  :) :) :) :)
>
>
> Only as a suggestion: could someone who has managed to "install"
> Chinese fonts and map files successfully, upload the needed files to
> http://modules.contextgarden.net/, so that it would be easier for
> other users to take "ready-to-start-using" module rather than having
> to read dozens of pages of how to get started?
>
> In that case, supporting "Chinese on the garden" could be done right
> away if needed (perhaps we need to enable third party modules on the
> garden, which is really not so difficult to do).
>
> Mojca

I put two files to files to the wiki to write chinese, the contain the tfm, enc
and map files to use the fonts.

The first file [1] provides support for the fonts from the wiki page
for chinese [3],
the only thing you have to do is to unzip my file in a local TeX tree
and to place
the fonts files in the truetype directory.

The second file [2] has support for the cwTeX fonts (cwTeX is a chinese TeX
distribution), they look a little bit different and you have to
download the fonts from
their site [4].To use the fonts unzip my archiv from the module section in your
TeX tree and put the truetype fonts in the corresponding folder. You can choose
between fonts with centered punctuation or punctuation at the baseline, use only
one of them because both have the same files names.

After you have installed the fonts on your system refresh the database
with texhash
and and you try my attached example file (the text is taken from Hans
mkii/iv manual).

Wolfgang

[1] http://modules.contextgarden.net/chinese
[2] http://modules.contextgarden.net/cwTeX
[3] http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Chinese
[4] ftp://ftp.ctex.org/pub/tex/fonts/cwTeX/

[-- Attachment #2: chinese.tex --]
[-- Type: application/x-tex, Size: 4592 bytes --]

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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 2007/11/7, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>> Duncan Hothersall wrote:
>>> Hans said:
>>>> \definefontsize[e]
>>>>
>>>> \setupfontenvironment
>>>>    [default]
>>>>    [e=4]
>>>>
>>> Ah, thanks. Using \setupbodyfontenvironment as the second command did
>>> the trick.
>>>
>>> I guess there is no easy way of directly calling a specific font at a
>>> specific size? No worry, this sort of solution will allow me to do what
>>> I need for now. Thanks Hans.
>> chinese in mkii is kind of special, i.e. all kind of mappings to ranges
>> of fonts; in mkiv chines is easier (i still have to finish some spacing
>> issues)
> 
> 
> How about a little appetizer from mkiv.
> 
> \definefontfeature[chinese][analyze=yes,language=dflt,mode=node,script=hani]
> 
> \starttypescript[sans][arial]
> \definefontsynonym[Sans][Arial][features=chinese]
> \stoptypescript
> 
> \starttypescript[sans][arial]
> \definefontsynonym[Arial][file:ARIALUNI][features=default]
> \stoptypescript
> 
> \definetypeface[arial][ss][sans][arial][default]
> 
> \setupbodyfont[arial,ss]
> 
> % alternative to the typescript solution
> %\definefont[Normal][ARIALUNI*chinese at 12pt][line=16pt]
> 
> \starttext
> 
> write your chinese text here
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> There will be no longer any big difference in defining fonts for latin or
> any
> other language. A few things are to achive than with the current code from
> the
> chinese module like opening and closing braces in vertical mode.

a next mkiv release will provide dynamic features ...

\definefontfeature[chinese][analyze=yes,language=dflt,mode=node,script=hani]

\starttypescript[sans][arial]
\definefontsynonym[Sans][Arial]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript[sans][arial]
\definefontsynonym[Arial][file:ARIALUNI]
\stoptypescript

\definetypeface[arial][ss][sans][arial][default]

\setupbodyfont[arial,ss]

\starttext

bla bla {\setfontfeature{chinese} MORE BLA} bla bla 
{\setfontfeature{oldstyle} 1234} bla bla

\stoptext

so, just one font instance and independent feature switches; this saves 
multiple definitions of fonts and is therefore faster and takes less 
memory too

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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2007/11/7, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>
> Duncan Hothersall wrote:
> > Hans said:
> >> \definefontsize[e]
> >>
> >> \setupfontenvironment
> >>    [default]
> >>    [e=4]
> >>
> > Ah, thanks. Using \setupbodyfontenvironment as the second command did
> > the trick.
> >
> > I guess there is no easy way of directly calling a specific font at a
> > specific size? No worry, this sort of solution will allow me to do what
> > I need for now. Thanks Hans.
>
> chinese in mkii is kind of special, i.e. all kind of mappings to ranges
> of fonts; in mkiv chines is easier (i still have to finish some spacing
> issues)


How about a little appetizer from mkiv.

\definefontfeature[chinese][analyze=yes,language=dflt,mode=node,script=hani]

\starttypescript[sans][arial]
\definefontsynonym[Sans][Arial][features=chinese]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript[sans][arial]
\definefontsynonym[Arial][file:ARIALUNI][features=default]
\stoptypescript

\definetypeface[arial][ss][sans][arial][default]

\setupbodyfont[arial,ss]

% alternative to the typescript solution
%\definefont[Normal][ARIALUNI*chinese at 12pt][line=16pt]

\starttext

write your chinese text here

\stoptext

There will be no longer any big difference in defining fonts for latin or
any
other language. A few things are to achive than with the current code from
the
chinese module like opening and closing braces in vertical mode.

Wolfgang

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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Duncan Hothersall]

Hans (07/11/2007 16:09) said:
>> Btw: Is there any reason for not using XeTeX (or LuaTeX in the future)
>> for Chinese? (To be honest: I have absolutely no idea whether it works
>> and how good it works if at all, but I would expect less problems
>> there.)
>>     
>
> i bet that duncan uses it in some workflow that has to be stable i.e. no 
> moving targets like xetex or luatex (yet)
>
> Hans
Exactly right. :-) We have some big plans for LuaTeX across Latin, 
Arabic and Chinese alphabets, but for now we have to stick to the old 
tried and tested...

Duncan
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Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Hans Hagen]

Duncan Hothersall wrote:
> Hans said:
>> \definefontsize[e]
>>
>> \setupfontenvironment
>>    [default]
>>    [e=4]
>>   
> Ah, thanks. Using \setupbodyfontenvironment as the second command did 
> the trick.
> 
> I guess there is no easy way of directly calling a specific font at a 
> specific size? No worry, this sort of solution will allow me to do what 
> I need for now. Thanks Hans.

chinese in mkii is kind of special, i.e. all kind of mappings to ranges 
of fonts; in mkiv chines is easier (i still have to finish some spacing 
issues)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Font sizes using Chinese module

[Duncan Hothersall]

Hans said:
> \definefontsize[e]
>
> \setupfontenvironment
>    [default]
>    [e=4]
>   
Ah, thanks. Using \setupbodyfontenvironment as the second command did 
the trick.

I guess there is no easy way of directly calling a specific font at a 
specific size? No worry, this sort of solution will allow me to do what 
I need for now. Thanks Hans.

Duncan
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