margins

margins

[Peter I. Hansen]

Hi

I'm typesetting a document to be printed in book format. For this
purpose I need the left margin of an odd numbered page to be larger
than the right margin, and the right margin of an even numbered page
to be larger than the left margin.
However, the standard behaviour seems to be the opposite.

Can any of you give me an example of how to reverse this?

Thanks, Peter
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Re: margins

[Joel C. Salomon]

On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Peter I. Hansen <peterih@gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm typesetting a document to be printed in book format. For this
>  purpose I need the left margin of an odd numbered page to be larger
>  than the right margin, and the right margin of an even numbered page
>  to be larger than the left margin.

In other words, you want large inner margins and small outer margins.

>  However, the standard behaviour seems to be the opposite.

For very good reason.  When a two-page spread is laid flat, it usually
looks best if the outer margins are both approximately equal in width
to the combined inner margins.  The default layout takes that into
account.

While the binding of a book does "eat" some of the inner margin, it's
probably less than you think (IIRC, from ¼ʺ to ½ʺ, depending on the
binding method), and often the print shop can correct for that.  (If
you need to be exact, measure against a book bound where your book
will be and in the same method.)

--Joel
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Re: margins

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-03-25 um 01:51 schrieb Joel C. Salomon:
> In other words, you want large inner margins and small outer margins.
>>  However, the standard behaviour seems to be the opposite.
> For very good reason.  When a two-page spread is laid flat, it usually
> looks best if the outer margins are both approximately equal in width
> to the combined inner margins.  The default layout takes that into
> account.
>
> While the binding of a book does "eat" some of the inner margin, it's
> probably less than you think (IIRC, from ¼ʺ to ½ʺ, depending on  
> the
> binding method), and often the print shop can correct for that.  (If
> you need to be exact, measure against a book bound where your book
> will be and in the same method.)

It depends on the binding method.

The traditional margin sizes are only good for thread-stitching.
If your book's bound threadless (perfect binding, Wire-O etc.) your  
inner margins need to be bigger (not always bigger as the outer, but  
at least bigger than the traditional measures).

It's not only that the bookbinder mills away a few millimeters of the  
page - you can't open a adhesive bound book as much as a thread- 
stitched, so you need a wider gutter to be able to read the book  
without destroying the binding. (Or in case of spiral binding the  
holes for the wire need enough space.)

And if you need to send your PDF print-ready to your printshop (maybe  
books-on-demand maker), there's nobody else who will correct for that.

Insofar the OP's question is well justified.
Even if he could have found the answer easily himself:

Of course you can define your page layout at will,
see http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban (typesetter & printing engineer)
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: margins

[Peter I. Hansen]

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> wrote:
> Am 2008-03-25 um 01:51 schrieb Joel C. Salomon:
>
> > In other words, you want large inner margins and small outer margins.
>  >>  However, the standard behaviour seems to be the opposite.
>  > For very good reason.  When a two-page spread is laid flat, it usually
>  > looks best if the outer margins are both approximately equal in width
>  > to the combined inner margins.  The default layout takes that into
>  > account.
>  >
>  > While the binding of a book does "eat" some of the inner margin, it's
>  > probably less than you think (IIRC, from ¼ʺ to ½ʺ, depending on
>  > the
>  > binding method), and often the print shop can correct for that.  (If
>  > you need to be exact, measure against a book bound where your book
>  > will be and in the same method.)
>
>  It depends on the binding method.
>
>  The traditional margin sizes are only good for thread-stitching.
>  If your book's bound threadless (perfect binding, Wire-O etc.) your
>  inner margins need to be bigger (not always bigger as the outer, but
>  at least bigger than the traditional measures).
>
>  It's not only that the bookbinder mills away a few millimeters of the
>  page - you can't open a adhesive bound book as much as a thread-
>  stitched, so you need a wider gutter to be able to read the book
>  without destroying the binding. (Or in case of spiral binding the
>  holes for the wire need enough space.)
>
>  And if you need to send your PDF print-ready to your printshop (maybe
>  books-on-demand maker), there's nobody else who will correct for that.
>
>  Insofar the OP's question is well justified.
>  Even if he could have found the answer easily himself:
>
>  Of course you can define your page layout at will,
>  see http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout

Well, the information here does not solv my problem completely.
The thing is, that while I do want the inner margins to be larger than
the outer, my description also implies that the odd numbered pages are
right pages, which is sometimes a requirement for printed books.
I have tried to define the margins following the Layout section of the
manual, but I can't figure out how to change that the odd pages are
assumed to be left pages.

-Peter
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: margins

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Peter I. Hansen <peterih@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> wrote:
> > Am 2008-03-25 um 01:51 schrieb Joel C. Salomon:
> >
> > > In other words, you want large inner margins and small outer margins.
> >  >>  However, the standard behaviour seems to be the opposite.
> >  > For very good reason.  When a two-page spread is laid flat, it usually
> >  > looks best if the outer margins are both approximately equal in width
> >  > to the combined inner margins.  The default layout takes that into
> >  > account.
> >  >
> >  > While the binding of a book does "eat" some of the inner margin, it's
> >  > probably less than you think (IIRC, from ¼ʺ to ½ʺ, depending on
> >  > the
> >  > binding method), and often the print shop can correct for that.  (If
> >  > you need to be exact, measure against a book bound where your book
> >  > will be and in the same method.)
> >
> >  It depends on the binding method.
> >
> >  The traditional margin sizes are only good for thread-stitching.
> >  If your book's bound threadless (perfect binding, Wire-O etc.) your
> >  inner margins need to be bigger (not always bigger as the outer, but
> >  at least bigger than the traditional measures).
> >
> >  It's not only that the bookbinder mills away a few millimeters of the
> >  page - you can't open a adhesive bound book as much as a thread-
> >  stitched, so you need a wider gutter to be able to read the book
> >  without destroying the binding. (Or in case of spiral binding the
> >  holes for the wire need enough space.)
> >
> >  And if you need to send your PDF print-ready to your printshop (maybe
> >  books-on-demand maker), there's nobody else who will correct for that.
> >
> >  Insofar the OP's question is well justified.
> >  Even if he could have found the answer easily himself:
> >
> >  Of course you can define your page layout at will,
> >  see http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout
>
> Well, the information here does not solv my problem completely.
> The thing is, that while I do want the inner margins to be larger than
> the outer, my description also implies that the odd numbered pages are
> right pages, which is sometimes a requirement for printed books.
> I have tried to define the margins following the Layout section of the
> manual, but I can't figure out how to change that the odd pages are
> assumed to be left pages.

\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]

\setuplayout
  [backspace=4cm,
   cutspace=2cm,
   width=fit]

%\setuplayout
%  [backspace=4cm,
%   width=15cm]

\starttext
\dorecurse{100}{\input knuth\par}
\stoptext

Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: margins

[Peter I. Hansen]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Wolfgang Schuster
<schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Peter I. Hansen <peterih@gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> wrote:
>  > > Am 2008-03-25 um 01:51 schrieb Joel C. Salomon:
>  > >
>  > > > In other words, you want large inner margins and small outer margins.
>  > >  >>  However, the standard behaviour seems to be the opposite.
>  > >  > For very good reason.  When a two-page spread is laid flat, it usually
>  > >  > looks best if the outer margins are both approximately equal in width
>  > >  > to the combined inner margins.  The default layout takes that into
>  > >  > account.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > While the binding of a book does "eat" some of the inner margin, it's
>  > >  > probably less than you think (IIRC, from ¼ʺ to ½ʺ, depending on
>  > >  > the
>  > >  > binding method), and often the print shop can correct for that.  (If
>  > >  > you need to be exact, measure against a book bound where your book
>  > >  > will be and in the same method.)
>  > >
>  > >  It depends on the binding method.
>  > >
>  > >  The traditional margin sizes are only good for thread-stitching.
>  > >  If your book's bound threadless (perfect binding, Wire-O etc.) your
>  > >  inner margins need to be bigger (not always bigger as the outer, but
>  > >  at least bigger than the traditional measures).
>  > >
>  > >  It's not only that the bookbinder mills away a few millimeters of the
>  > >  page - you can't open a adhesive bound book as much as a thread-
>  > >  stitched, so you need a wider gutter to be able to read the book
>  > >  without destroying the binding. (Or in case of spiral binding the
>  > >  holes for the wire need enough space.)
>  > >
>  > >  And if you need to send your PDF print-ready to your printshop (maybe
>  > >  books-on-demand maker), there's nobody else who will correct for that.
>  > >
>  > >  Insofar the OP's question is well justified.
>  > >  Even if he could have found the answer easily himself:
>  > >
>  > >  Of course you can define your page layout at will,
>  > >  see http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout
>  >
>  > Well, the information here does not solv my problem completely.
>  > The thing is, that while I do want the inner margins to be larger than
>  > the outer, my description also implies that the odd numbered pages are
>  > right pages, which is sometimes a requirement for printed books.
>  > I have tried to define the margins following the Layout section of the
>  > manual, but I can't figure out how to change that the odd pages are
>  > assumed to be left pages.
>
>  \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
>
>  \setuplayout
>   [backspace=4cm,
>    cutspace=2cm,
>    width=fit]
>
>  %\setuplayout
>  %  [backspace=4cm,
>  %   width=15cm]
>
>  \starttext
>  \dorecurse{100}{\input knuth\par}
>  \stoptext

Thanks Wolfgang, this works.

-Peter
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________