urw garamond typescript

urw garamond typescript

[Peter Münster]

Great, now it works!  (with luatex-r1188 and context-beta)


The typescript from Hans at the end of this message works fine.
Some questions for my understanding:
- Why 2 \starttypescript-\stoptypescript sections, and not 1?
- What does "\setups[font:fallback:serif]" mean?
- What is \definetypeface for?
- What is the meaning of each parameter of \definetypeface?
- Why does the third \starttypescript only have one parameter and no
  [serif]?

After playing around with the typescript, I got the following minmal
typescript, that seems to give the same result:

\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
   \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [file:GaramondNo8-Reg]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [file:GaramondNo8-Med]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [file:GaramondNo8-Ita]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [file:GaramondNo8-MedIta]
   \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] [\typescriptone]
\stoptypescript
\usetypescript[urwgaramond]
\setupbodyfont[urwgaramond]

I strongly believe, that Hans' typescript is better, could somebody explain
why?

Cheers, Peter




% engine=luatex
\definefontfeature[complete][liga=yes,kern=yes,compose=yes,tlig=yes,trep=yes]

\starttypescript [serif] [urwgaramond]
   \setups[font:fallback:serif]
   \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [Garamond-Regular]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [Garamond-Medium]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [Garamond-Italic]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Garamond-MediumItalic]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [urwgaramond]
   \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Regular]      [file:GaramondNo8-Reg]
[features=complete]
   \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Medium]       [file:GaramondNo8-Med]
[features=complete]
   \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Italic]       [file:GaramondNo8-Ita]
[features=complete]
   \definefontsynonym [Garamond-MediumItalic] [file:GaramondNo8-MedIta]
[features=complete]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
   \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [rm] [serif] [urwgaramond] [default]
\stoptypescript

\usetypescript[urwgaramond]
\setupbodyfont[urwgaramond]

\starttext
\rm\input knuth

\it\input knuth

\bf\input knuth

\bi\input knuth
\stoptext


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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Hans Hagen]

Peter Münster wrote:
> Great, now it works!  (with luatex-r1188 and context-beta)
> 
> 
> The typescript from Hans at the end of this message works fine.
> Some questions for my understanding:
> - Why 2 \starttypescript-\stoptypescript sections, and not 1?

taste and acess to verbose fontname

> - What does "\setups[font:fallback:serif]" mean?

just grep for font:fallback in type*

> - What is \definetypeface for?

to make a collection out of font with diifferent styles

> - What is the meaning of each parameter of \definetypeface?

see mfonts.pdf

> - Why does the third \starttypescript only have one parameter and no
>   [serif]?

lazynessa, after all, gamamond is a serif

> After playing around with the typescript, I got the following minmal
> typescript, that seems to give the same result:
> 
> \starttypescript [urwgaramond]
>    \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [file:GaramondNo8-Reg]
>    \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [file:GaramondNo8-Med]
>    \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [file:GaramondNo8-Ita]
>    \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [file:GaramondNo8-MedIta]
>    \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] [\typescriptone]
> \stoptypescript
> \usetypescript[urwgaramond]
> \setupbodyfont[urwgaramond]
> 
> I strongly believe, that Hans' typescript is better, could somebody explain
> why?

in a document with multiple fonts it may be handy to be able to say:

\definedfont[Garamond-Regular*default at 36pt]Some Big Title

> Cheers, Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> % engine=luatex
> \definefontfeature[complete][liga=yes,kern=yes,compose=yes,tlig=yes,trep=yes]
> 
> \starttypescript [serif] [urwgaramond]
>    \setups[font:fallback:serif]
>    \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [Garamond-Regular]
>    \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [Garamond-Medium]
>    \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [Garamond-Italic]
>    \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Garamond-MediumItalic]
> \stoptypescript
> 
> \starttypescript [serif] [urwgaramond]
>    \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Regular]      [file:GaramondNo8-Reg]
> [features=complete]
>    \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Medium]       [file:GaramondNo8-Med]
> [features=complete]
>    \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Italic]       [file:GaramondNo8-Ita]
> [features=complete]
>    \definefontsynonym [Garamond-MediumItalic] [file:GaramondNo8-MedIta]
> [features=complete]
> \stoptypescript
> 
> \starttypescript [urwgaramond]
>    \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [rm] [serif] [urwgaramond] [default]
> \stoptypescript
> 
> \usetypescript[urwgaramond]
> \setupbodyfont[urwgaramond]
> 
> \starttext
> \rm\input knuth
> 
> \it\input knuth
> 
> \bf\input knuth
> 
> \bi\input knuth
> \stoptext
> 
> 


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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Peter Münster]

On Thu, Apr 24 2008, Hans Hagen wrote:

> > - What is the meaning of each parameter of \definetypeface?
> 
> see mfonts.pdf

There are examples, but I didn't find an explanation of the parameters.
If I understand right, theses are synonyms:
rm <-> serif
ss <-> sans
tt <-> mono
mm <-> math

I'm trying to reduce redundancy, and indeed this works very well:

\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []

(This works too: \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [XXX] [serif] [YYY] )


In the end, I come up with the following typescript:

\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
  \setups[font:fallback:serif]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]                 [Garamond-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]             [Garamond-Medium]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]           [Garamond-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]       [Garamond-MediumItalic]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Regular]      [file:GaramondNo8-Reg]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Medium]       [file:GaramondNo8-Med]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Italic]       [file:GaramondNo8-Ita]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-MediumItalic] [file:GaramondNo8-MedIta]
  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []
\stoptypescript
\usetypescript[urwgaramond]
\setupbodyfont[urwgaramond]

Is this clean, or do you see any problems?

Cheers, Peter

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: urw garamond typescript

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 24 2008, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
> > > - What is the meaning of each parameter of \definetypeface?
> >
> > see mfonts.pdf
>
> There are examples, but I didn't find an explanation of the parameters.
> If I understand right, theses are synonyms:
> rm <-> serif
> ss <-> sans
> tt <-> mono
> mm <-> math
>
> I'm trying to reduce redundancy, and indeed this works very well:
>
> \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []
>
> (This works too: \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [XXX] [serif] [YYY] )

This did only work because you have only defined one typeface in your
typescripts and the first defintion will be used as bodyfont, you could
test it with a sans font.

\starttypescipt [mytypeface]
  \definetypeface [mytypeface] [ss] [sans] [...] [default]
\stoptypescript

If you use this typescript as bodyfont a sans style would be used
instead of roman.

> In the end, I come up with the following typescript:
>
> \starttypescript [urwgaramond]
>  \setups[font:fallback:serif]
>  \definefontsynonym [Serif]                 [Garamond-Regular]
>  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]             [Garamond-Medium]
>  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]           [Garamond-Italic]
>  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]       [Garamond-MediumItalic]
>  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Regular]      [file:GaramondNo8-Reg]
>  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Medium]       [file:GaramondNo8-Med]
>  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Italic]       [file:GaramondNo8-Ita]
>  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-MediumItalic] [file:GaramondNo8-MedIta]
>  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []
> \stoptypescript
> \usetypescript[urwgaramond]
> \setupbodyfont[urwgaramond]
>
> Is this clean, or do you see any problems?

Why this odd defintion I see now why why you have to enclose all synonyms
within a typescript environment.

You will also loose the functionality to create a new font collcetion
for your document with the serif garamond as serif typeface, palatino
for math etc.

Wolfgang
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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Peter Münster]

On Thu, Apr 24 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> \starttypescipt [mytypeface]
>   \definetypeface [mytypeface] [ss] [sans] [...] [default]
> \stoptypescript

I try to ask better questions:
- The first argument to \definetypeface is the name of the typeface, right?
- Why do I need the second *and* the third arguments, they seem redundant
  to me?  ("ss" means always "sans" and so on)
- What is the meaning of the fourth argument, it seems that I don't need
  it?
- Same question for the fifth argument.


> If you use this typescript as bodyfont a sans style would be used
> instead of roman.
> 

> Why this odd defintion I see now why why you have to enclose all synonyms
> within a typescript environment.

I don't have to, this works too:
\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
  \setups[font:fallback:serif]
  [...]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
  [...]
  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []
\stoptypescript


> You will also loose the functionality to create a new font collcetion
> for your document with the serif garamond as serif typeface, palatino
> for math etc.

Next exercise for me: creation of a new font collection!
Could you suggest please, what fonts would fit nicely with garamond,
for ss, tt and mm?

Then I'll report back the font collection with garamond as main font.

Cheers, Peter

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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 24 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
> > \starttypescipt [mytypeface]
> >   \definetypeface [mytypeface] [ss] [sans] [...] [default]
> > \stoptypescript
>
> I try to ask better questions:
> - The first argument to \definetypeface is the name of the typeface, right?

The first argument is what you as font name for \setupbodyfont.

> - Why do I need the second *and* the third arguments, they seem redundant
>  to me?  ("ss" means always "sans" and so on)

AFAIK they are the command to switch from one style to another one,
e.g. \rm, \ss
but I wondered myself about this.

> - What is the meaning of the fourth argument, it seems that I don't need it?

The content is the name of the typescript you want to use for the font
collection,
take for example you are interested to combine different fonts for one document
to one collcetion.

\starttypescript [letter]
  \definetypeface [letter] [rm] [serif] [cambria] [default]
  \definetypeface [letter] [ss] [serif] [corbel] [default]
  \definetypeface [letter] [tt] [mono] [consolas] [default]
\stoptypescript

\usetypescript[letter]
\setupbodyfont[letter]

This is waht I use in my letter manual, I combine cambria as serif font,
corbel as sans font and consolas as mono font into the font collcetion letter.

Each of the three font is defined in a seperate typescript, the typescript for
the cambria font looks like

\starttypescript [serif] [cambria]
   ...
\stoptypescript

and the one for calibri

\starttypescripot [sans] [calibri]
  ...
\stoptypescript

> - Same question for the fifth argument.

Don't know, I though is has something to do with optical sizes but I never
tried anything else than default.

> > If you use this typescript as bodyfont a sans style would be used
> > instead of roman.
>
> > Why this odd defintion I see now why why you have to enclose all synonyms
> > within a typescript environment.
>
> I don't have to, this works too:
> \starttypescript [urwgaramond]
>  \setups[font:fallback:serif]
>  [...]
> \stoptypescript
> \starttypescript [urwgaramond]
>  [...]
>  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []
> \stoptypescript

What do you use for [...] in the second typescript.

> > You will also loose the functionality to create a new font collcetion
> > for your document with the serif garamond as serif typeface, palatino
> > for math etc.
>
> Next exercise for me: creation of a new font collection!
> Could you suggest please, what fonts would fit nicely with garamond,
> for ss, tt and mm?

I suggest palatino (mathpazo?) for math but this would be more a topic
for Hraban, you could try to use the luxi mono fonts for typewriter.

Wolfgang
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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Peter Münster]

On Thu, Apr 24 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> The content is the name of the typescript you want to use for the font
> collection,
> take for example you are interested to combine different fonts for one document
> to one collcetion.
> 
> \starttypescript [letter]
>   \definetypeface [letter] [rm] [serif] [cambria] [default]
>   \definetypeface [letter] [ss] [serif] [corbel] [default]
>   \definetypeface [letter] [tt] [mono] [consolas] [default]
> \stoptypescript
> 
> \usetypescript[letter]
> \setupbodyfont[letter]

Ok, I understand better now:
- one meaning of starttypescript-stoptypescript is the definition of a
  typescript (2 arguments)
- a second meaning is the definition of a font-collection (one argument)


> > > Why this odd defintion I see now why why you have to enclose all synonyms
> > > within a typescript environment.
> >
> > I don't have to, this works too:
> > \starttypescript [urwgaramond]
> >  \setups[font:fallback:serif]
> >  [...]
> > \stoptypescript
> > \starttypescript [urwgaramond]
> >  [...]
> >  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []
> > \stoptypescript
> 
> What do you use for [...] in the second typescript.

Pardon, here the full version:
\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
  \setups[font:fallback:serif]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]                 [Garamond-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]             [Garamond-Medium]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]           [Garamond-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]       [Garamond-MediumItalic]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Regular]      [file:GaramondNo8-Reg]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Medium]       [file:GaramondNo8-Med]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Italic]       [file:GaramondNo8-Ita]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-MediumItalic] [file:GaramondNo8-MedIta]
  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []
\stoptypescript

This works too:
\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
  \setups[font:fallback:serif]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]                 [Garamond-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]             [Garamond-Medium]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]           [Garamond-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]       [Garamond-MediumItalic]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Regular]      [file:GaramondNo8-Reg]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Medium]       [file:GaramondNo8-Med]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-Italic]       [file:GaramondNo8-Ita]
  \definefontsynonym [Garamond-MediumItalic] [file:GaramondNo8-MedIta]
\stoptypescript
\starttypescript [urwgaramond]
  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [] [serif] []
\stoptypescript


Thanks for all your explanations!
Cheers, Peter

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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> AFAIK they are the command to switch from one style to another one,
> e.g. \rm, \ss
> but I wondered myself about this.

not really, since we also have hw (handwritten) and cg (calligraphy)

anyhow, sometimes i do map the ss to a serif or rm to sans; depends on 
how mixed your doc may be


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
> > AFAIK they are the command to switch from one style to another one,
> > e.g. \rm, \ss
> > but I wondered myself about this.
>
> not really, since we also have hw (handwritten) and cg (calligraphy)

I know rm, ss, tt, mm, hw and cg but you write in the font manual it is
also possible to define own commands, is this possible for the short
command and if yes how.

> anyhow, sometimes i do map the ss to a serif or rm to sans; depends on
> how mixed your doc may be

Do you mean I could write \definetype [...] [rm] [sans] to get a sans font
with the \rm command.

Wolfgang
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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>
>>> AFAIK they are the command to switch from one style to another one,
>>> e.g. \rm, \ss
>>> but I wondered myself about this.
>> not really, since we also have hw (handwritten) and cg (calligraphy)
> 
> I know rm, ss, tt, mm, hw and cg but you write in the font manual it is
> also possible to define own commands, is this possible for the short
> command and if yes how.
> 
>> anyhow, sometimes i do map the ss to a serif or rm to sans; depends on
>> how mixed your doc may be
> 
> Do you mean I could write \definetype [...] [rm] [sans] to get a sans font
> with the \rm command.

indeed

rm ss etc are defined infont-ini and you can define more if needed

Hans

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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-04-24 um 13:54 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:
>>
>> Next exercise for me: creation of a new font collection!
>> Could you suggest please, what fonts would fit nicely with garamond,
>> for ss, tt and mm?
>
> I suggest palatino (mathpazo?) for math but this would be more a topic
> for Hraban, you could try to use the luxi mono fonts for typewriter.

Sorry, had no time to read mailing lists last week...

I seldom use math, so I can't say anything useful about math fonts.
Perhaps try Euler, I guess they fit well with a lot of serif fonts.

I generally like the LM mono more than any other typewriter font -  
it's not only a line font like Courier, is well readable, has several  
faces and looks really nice.

I never used URW Garamond, so I can't really advise you on some  
fitting sans. It depends what you intend to typeset in what face  
(e.g. only titlings in sans, body text in serif?). It also depends on  
the subject of your product - novels, science books, lifestyle  
magazines, product brochures etc. need a different style.
Perhaps try if you like Frutiger, Optima (URW Classico), URW Grotesk,  
Myriad or even Helvetica (TeXGyre Heros). If you need it only for  
titlings, perhaps you'll like Clearface Gothic, FF Unit, Benguiat  
Gothic... It's really a matter of taste.
(Most of the mentioned fonts are commercial, of course.)


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Hans Hagen]

Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Am 2008-04-24 um 13:54 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:
>>> Next exercise for me: creation of a new font collection!
>>> Could you suggest please, what fonts would fit nicely with garamond,
>>> for ss, tt and mm?
>> I suggest palatino (mathpazo?) for math but this would be more a topic
>> for Hraban, you could try to use the luxi mono fonts for typewriter.

palatino is often a good match

> Sorry, had no time to read mailing lists last week...
> 
> I seldom use math, so I can't say anything useful about math fonts.
> Perhaps try Euler, I guess they fit well with a lot of serif fonts.

keep in mind that euler has no complete math coverage yet, but it's 
under way

> I generally like the LM mono more than any other typewriter font -  
> it's not only a line font like Courier, is well readable, has several  
> faces and looks really nice.

indeed

Hans

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Re: urw garamond typescript

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:06:22 -0600, Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net>  
wrote:

> I generally like the LM mono more than any other typewriter font -
> it's not only a line font like Courier, is well readable, has several
> faces and looks really nice.

Yes, but very poorly hinted :-(

Idris

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Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
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Colorado State University
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