How to avoid a page break?

How to avoid a page break?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi,

I have the following in my code:

\def\doPutTitle#1{%
  \startalignment[middle]
    \bfb
    \page[bigpreference]
    \blank[2*big]
    #1%
    \page[no]%
    \blank[big]%
    \page[no]%
  \stopalignment
  \page[no]%
}%

Why is it still possible that I have a page break after, say,
\doPutTitle{some title} (in MkII, in MkIV page breaks fall in different
places).  Which percentage signs and \page[no]'s are unnecessary here?

Also, how to avoid a page break right before an itemization?  Adding
[intro] seems not to work.

And one more thing about pagebreaks: how to avoid a pagebreak right
before a \startformula ... \stopformula?  And what is the ConTeXt way of
setting stretchable vertical glue (e.g. for \blank's, below itemizations
etc.)?

Thanks in advance & greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

People can be divided into 10 groups: those who like the binary system
and those who don't.
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 04.11.2008 um 21:21 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:

> Hi,
>
> I have the following in my code:
>
> \def\doPutTitle#1{%
>  \startalignment[middle]
>    \bfb
>    \page[bigpreference]
>    \blank[2*big]
>    #1%
>    \page[no]%
>    \blank[big]%
>    \page[no]%
>  \stopalignment
>  \page[no]%
> }%
>
> Why is it still possible that I have a page break after, say,
> \doPutTitle{some title} (in MkII, in MkIV page breaks fall in  
> different
> places).  Which percentage signs and \page[no]'s are unnecessary here?

\def\doPutTitle#1%
   {\page[bigpreference]
    \vbox\bgroup
    \raggedcenter
    #1%
    \egroup
    \nobreak\blank[big]}

> Also, how to avoid a page break right before an itemization?  Adding
> [intro] seems not to work.

Example!

> And one more thing about pagebreaks: how to avoid a pagebreak right
> before a \startformula ... \stopformula?  And what is the ConTeXt  
> way of
> setting stretchable vertical glue (e.g. for \blank's, below  
> itemizations
> etc.)?

\blank[ small | medium | big | ... ]

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 10:17:51PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a):
> 
> Am 04.11.2008 um 21:21 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have the following in my code:
> >
> > \def\doPutTitle#1{%
> >  \startalignment[middle]
> >    \bfb
> >    \page[bigpreference]
> >    \blank[2*big]
> >    #1%
> >    \page[no]%
> >    \blank[big]%
> >    \page[no]%
> >  \stopalignment
> >  \page[no]%
> > }%
> >
> > Why is it still possible that I have a page break after, say,
> > \doPutTitle{some title} (in MkII, in MkIV page breaks fall in  
> > different
> > places).  Which percentage signs and \page[no]'s are unnecessary here?
> 
> \def\doPutTitle#1%
>    {\page[bigpreference]
>     \vbox\bgroup
>     \raggedcenter
>     #1%
>     \egroup
>     \nobreak\blank[big]}

OK, though this looks rather low-level.  I was thinking about something
more user-friendly;).

This raises a philosophical question: is it the "ConTeXt way" to use
low-level constructs in environments and high-level in documents?  Or is
it better to avoid low level whenever possible?  Also, your code mixes
low-level commands (\vbox, which is a TeX prmitive, \raggedcenter, which
is a ConTeXt low-level command, I guess) and high-level ones (\blank).
I understand that this ensures a uniform vertical spacing (\blank[big]
is obviously better than \vskip 10pt;)), but I thought that it is
against ConTeXt philosophy to use low-level stuff unless something
really non-standard is needed.

> 
> > Also, how to avoid a page break right before an itemization?  Adding
> > [intro] seems not to work.
> 
> Example!

Sorry, I haven't provided one.  Here you are.

\starttext
\dorecurse{12}{%
  This is some intro (\recurselevel).
  \startitemize[n,packed,joinedup,columns,two,intro]
  \dorecurse{8}{\item This is an item.}
  \stopitemize
}%
\stoptext

(strange things happen both in MkII and MkIV in the online ConTeXt!)

> 
> > And one more thing about pagebreaks: how to avoid a pagebreak right
> > before a \startformula ... \stopformula?  And what is the ConTeXt  
> > way of
> > setting stretchable vertical glue (e.g. for \blank's, below  
> > itemizations
> > etc.)?
> 
> \blank[ small | medium | big | ... ]

But how do I control the stretchability?

> Wolfgang

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

O ludzką twarz - walka trwa!  Już płoną ognie - chwyćmy za ostrze!
Naszym ogniem Moc Najwyższego,  ostrzem wierność obranej drodze...
Walka trwa!
                        (Izaiash)
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 04.11.2008 um 22:39 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:

> Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 10:17:51PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster  
> napisał(a):
>>
>> Am 04.11.2008 um 21:21 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have the following in my code:
>>>
>>> \def\doPutTitle#1{%
>>> \startalignment[middle]
>>>   \bfb
>>>   \page[bigpreference]
>>>   \blank[2*big]
>>>   #1%
>>>   \page[no]%
>>>   \blank[big]%
>>>   \page[no]%
>>> \stopalignment
>>> \page[no]%
>>> }%
>>>
>>> Why is it still possible that I have a page break after, say,
>>> \doPutTitle{some title} (in MkII, in MkIV page breaks fall in
>>> different
>>> places).  Which percentage signs and \page[no]'s are unnecessary  
>>> here?
>>
>> \def\doPutTitle#1%
>>   {\page[bigpreference]
>>    \vbox\bgroup
>>    \raggedcenter
>>    #1%
>>    \egroup
>>    \nobreak\blank[big]}
>
> OK, though this looks rather low-level.  I was thinking about  
> something
> more user-friendly;).
>
> This raises a philosophical question: is it the "ConTeXt way" to use
> low-level constructs in environments and high-level in documents?   
> Or is
> it better to avoid low level whenever possible?  Also, your code mixes
> low-level commands (\vbox, which is a TeX prmitive, \raggedcenter,  
> which
> is a ConTeXt low-level command, I guess) and high-level ones (\blank).
> I understand that this ensures a uniform vertical spacing (\blank[big]
> is obviously better than \vskip 10pt;)), but I thought that it is
> against ConTeXt philosophy to use low-level stuff unless something
> really non-standard is needed.

Here is a better method, there is nothing wrong with low level but
you should know what you do.

\defineblankmethod [nobreak] {\nobreak}

\def\doPutTitle#1%
   {\framed[frame=offwidth=\textwidth,align=middle]{#1}%
    \blank[nobreak,line]}

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 11:25:17PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a):
> 
> Am 04.11.2008 um 22:39 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:
> 
> > Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 10:17:51PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster  
> > napisał(a):
> >>
> >> Am 04.11.2008 um 21:21 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I have the following in my code:
> >>>
> >>> \def\doPutTitle#1{%
> >>> \startalignment[middle]
> >>>   \bfb
> >>>   \page[bigpreference]
> >>>   \blank[2*big]
> >>>   #1%
> >>>   \page[no]%
> >>>   \blank[big]%
> >>>   \page[no]%
> >>> \stopalignment
> >>> \page[no]%
> >>> }%
> >>>
> >>> Why is it still possible that I have a page break after, say,
> >>> \doPutTitle{some title} (in MkII, in MkIV page breaks fall in
> >>> different
> >>> places).  Which percentage signs and \page[no]'s are unnecessary  
> >>> here?
> >>
> >> \def\doPutTitle#1%
> >>   {\page[bigpreference]
> >>    \vbox\bgroup
> >>    \raggedcenter
> >>    #1%
> >>    \egroup
> >>    \nobreak\blank[big]}
> >
> > OK, though this looks rather low-level.  I was thinking about  
> > something
> > more user-friendly;).
> >
> > This raises a philosophical question: is it the "ConTeXt way" to use
> > low-level constructs in environments and high-level in documents?   
> > Or is
> > it better to avoid low level whenever possible?  Also, your code mixes
> > low-level commands (\vbox, which is a TeX prmitive, \raggedcenter,  
> > which
> > is a ConTeXt low-level command, I guess) and high-level ones (\blank).
> > I understand that this ensures a uniform vertical spacing (\blank[big]
> > is obviously better than \vskip 10pt;)), but I thought that it is
> > against ConTeXt philosophy to use low-level stuff unless something
> > really non-standard is needed.
> 
> Here is a better method, there is nothing wrong with low level but
> you should know what you do.

Yes, that's obvious.  But high-level is better in one thing: when I want
to teach ConTeXt to non-TeX-maniacs;), it's the only possibility.

> 
> \defineblankmethod [nobreak] {\nobreak}
> 
> \def\doPutTitle#1%
>    {\framed[frame=offwidth=\textwidth,align=middle]{#1}%
>     \blank[nobreak,line]}

OK, that's very nice, apart from the thing that the only two ways of
learning it are: (1) studying sources or (2) asking here.  Also, the
trick with \framed[frame=off,...] is neat, but I still don't get it: why
my \startalignment[middle] didn't work?  And how does exactly
\blank[something] work?

Don't think I need these answers *now*.  But it would be nice to
understand ConTeXt a bit some day...

You know, with plain TeX it's relatively easy to understand
*everything* - it's so small and, well, primitive;).  With LaTeX things
get messy, but still I can read the sources - they are very "plainy", I
mean LaTeX does not have so much UI for developers/package/class
writers, so it's not *that* difficult to understand parts of source
code.  But ConTeXt baffles me a lot.  I guess that reading sources is
the only remedy - but I don't have enough time now...  But some day, I
*will* understand this;).

> 
> Wolfgang
> 

PS. Wolfgang, can I still subscribe to your fan club?  Do I get a free
t-shirt;)?

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

People can be divided into two groups: those who can be divided into
two groups and those who can't.
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 04.11.2008 um 23:42 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:

> Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 11:25:17PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster  
> napisał(a):
>>
>> Am 04.11.2008 um 22:39 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:
>>
>>> Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 10:17:51PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster
>>> napisał(a):
>>>>
>>>> Am 04.11.2008 um 21:21 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the following in my code:
>>>>>
>>>>> \def\doPutTitle#1{%
>>>>> \startalignment[middle]
>>>>>  \bfb
>>>>>  \page[bigpreference]
>>>>>  \blank[2*big]
>>>>>  #1%
>>>>>  \page[no]%
>>>>>  \blank[big]%
>>>>>  \page[no]%
>>>>> \stopalignment
>>>>> \page[no]%
>>>>> }%
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is it still possible that I have a page break after, say,
>>>>> \doPutTitle{some title} (in MkII, in MkIV page breaks fall in
>>>>> different
>>>>> places).  Which percentage signs and \page[no]'s are unnecessary
>>>>> here?
>>>>
>>>> \def\doPutTitle#1%
>>>>  {\page[bigpreference]
>>>>   \vbox\bgroup
>>>>   \raggedcenter
>>>>   #1%
>>>>   \egroup
>>>>   \nobreak\blank[big]}
>>>
>>> OK, though this looks rather low-level.  I was thinking about
>>> something
>>> more user-friendly;).
>>>
>>> This raises a philosophical question: is it the "ConTeXt way" to use
>>> low-level constructs in environments and high-level in documents?
>>> Or is
>>> it better to avoid low level whenever possible?  Also, your code  
>>> mixes
>>> low-level commands (\vbox, which is a TeX prmitive, \raggedcenter,
>>> which
>>> is a ConTeXt low-level command, I guess) and high-level ones  
>>> (\blank).
>>> I understand that this ensures a uniform vertical spacing  
>>> (\blank[big]
>>> is obviously better than \vskip 10pt;)), but I thought that it is
>>> against ConTeXt philosophy to use low-level stuff unless something
>>> really non-standard is needed.
>>
>> Here is a better method, there is nothing wrong with low level but
>> you should know what you do.
>
> Yes, that's obvious.  But high-level is better in one thing: when I  
> want
> to teach ConTeXt to non-TeX-maniacs;), it's the only possibility.
>
>>
>> \defineblankmethod [nobreak] {\nobreak}
>>
>> \def\doPutTitle#1%
>>   {\framed[frame=offwidth=\textwidth,align=middle]{#1}%
>>    \blank[nobreak,line]}
>
> OK, that's very nice, apart from the thing that the only two ways of
> learning it are: (1) studying sources or (2) asking here.  Also, the
> trick with \framed[frame=off,...] is neat, but I still don't get it:  
> why
> my \startalignment[middle] didn't work?  And how does exactly
> \blank[something] work?
>
> Don't think I need these answers *now*.  But it would be nice to
> understand ConTeXt a bit some day...
>
> You know, with plain TeX it's relatively easy to understand
> *everything* - it's so small and, well, primitive;).  With LaTeX  
> things
> get messy, but still I can read the sources - they are very  
> "plainy", I
> mean LaTeX does not have so much UI for developers/package/class
> writers, so it's not *that* difficult to understand parts of source
> code.  But ConTeXt baffles me a lot.  I guess that reading sources is
> the only remedy - but I don't have enough time now...  But some day, I
> *will* understand this;).
>
>>
>> Wolfgang
>>
>
> PS. Wolfgang, can I still subscribe to your fan club?  Do I get a free
> t-shirt;)?

Ask Mojca, she has the shirts.

Wolfgang

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Re: How to avoid a page break?

[luigi scarso]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 137 bytes --]

>
>
> Ask Mojca, she has the shirts.
>
> Wolfgang
>
Well,
on my calendar, 31 October is (also)
San Volfgango (St. Wolfgang)



-- 
luigi

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 11:25:17PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a):
> \def\doPutTitle#1%
>    {\framed[frame=offwidth=\textwidth,align=middle]{#1}%
>     \blank[nobreak,line]}

And what to do if I want to use a similar to above command in

\setuphead[chapter][command=\doPutTitle]

to avoid a page break right after the title?

> 
> Wolfgang

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

- Is it a Perl program or a Perl script?
- Well, a script is what you give the actors.
  A program is what you give the audience.

                (Larry Wall)
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi!

And yet another question on this topic: how to avoid a page break after

\chapter[...]

?

(I decided to define a new head, derived from chapter, which does not
begin on a page of its own, but the heading should never be at the page
bottom alone!)

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

- Gandalf!  A ja myślałem, że nie żyjesz.  Co prawda o sobie też byłem
tego zdania.
				Sam Gamgee
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Marcin Borkowski
<mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 11:25:17PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisa&#322;(a):
>> \def\doPutTitle#1%
>>    {\framed[frame=offwidth=\textwidth,align=middle]{#1}%
>>     \blank[nobreak,line]}
>
> And what to do if I want to use a similar to above command in

\def\doPutTitle#1#2%
  {\framed[frame=offwidth=\textwidth,align=middle]{#1\space#1}}

> \setuphead[chapter][command=\doPutTitle]
>
> to avoid a page break right after the title?

ConTeXt already tries to avoid page breaks after headers.

Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

2008/11/5 Marcin Borkowski <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl>:
> Hi!
>
> And yet another question on this topic: how to avoid a page break after
>
> \chapter[...]
>
> ?
>
> (I decided to define a new head, derived from chapter, which does not
> begin on a page of its own, but the heading should never be at the page
> bottom alone!)

\definehead[marcin][chapter]

\setuphead
  [marcin]
  [page=no]

Wolfgang
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Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:13:47AM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a):
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Marcin Borkowski
> <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> > Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 11:25:17PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisa&#322;(a):
> >> \def\doPutTitle#1%
> >>    {\framed[frame=offwidth=\textwidth,align=middle]{#1}%
> >>     \blank[nobreak,line]}
> >
> > And what to do if I want to use a similar to above command in
> 
> \def\doPutTitle#1#2%
>   {\framed[frame=offwidth=\textwidth,align=middle]{#1\space#1}}

That I knew, sorry:(.

> 
> > \setuphead[chapter][command=\doPutTitle]
> >
> > to avoid a page break right after the title?
> 
> ConTeXt already tries to avoid page breaks after headers.

OK.  The problem was a bit different: I started the chapter with an
itemize without [intro].  Now it works, thanks!

> 
> Wolfgang

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

Najkrótszy dowcip matematyczny:
Obierzmy epsilon ujemne.
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi,

one more problem with pagebreaks: I'd like to prohibit a pagebreak
before a \startformula ... \stopformula.  What do I do?

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

IHS
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Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Marcin Borkowski
<mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> one more problem with pagebreaks: I'd like to prohibit a pagebreak
> before a \startformula ... \stopformula.  What do I do?

\defineblankmethod [nobreak] {\nobreak}

\setupformulas[spacebefore=nobreak]

Not sure if this did work, try it or send a test file.

Wolfgang
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Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 12:12:40PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a):
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Marcin Borkowski
> <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > one more problem with pagebreaks: I'd like to prohibit a pagebreak
> > before a \startformula ... \stopformula.  What do I do?
> 
> \defineblankmethod [nobreak] {\nobreak}
> 
> \setupformulas[spacebefore=nobreak]
> 
> Not sure if this did work, try it or send a test file.

Wow, it does!  However, it also tries to squeeze too much stuff
(vertically) to avoid the break.  I guess that this is one of these
things one has to tweak manually anyway.

What would probably help (since I have lots of \items and lots of math -
it's a number of problem sets in analysis;) - btw, available at
http://mbork.pl/?action=browse;id=Mathematical_Analysis_for_Computer_Science_2)
would be an automatic \page[bigpreference] before each \item.  Is that
possible?

> 
> Wolfgang

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

Jest tak. Friedman ma weksel Schapira z żyrem Glasa i windykator jest
Balenstein. On daje dwadzieścia pięć procent franko loko, towar jest u
Lutmana, tylko ten towar jest zajęty przez Honigmana z powodu weksel
Roitberga. Za ten weksel Roitberga można dostać gwarancję od jego
teścia Rozenzweiga, tylko on jest przepisany na Rozenzweigową, a
Rozenzweigowa jest chora.
                                    (Kabaret Dudek)
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Re: How to avoid a page break?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Marcin Borkowski
<mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> Dnia Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 12:12:40PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisa&#322;(a):
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Marcin Borkowski
>> <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > one more problem with pagebreaks: I'd like to prohibit a pagebreak
>> > before a \startformula ... \stopformula.  What do I do?
>>
>> \defineblankmethod [nobreak] {\nobreak}
>>
>> \setupformulas[spacebefore=nobreak]
>>
>> Not sure if this did work, try it or send a test file.
>
> Wow, it does!  However, it also tries to squeeze too much stuff
> (vertically) to avoid the break.  I guess that this is one of these
> things one has to tweak manually anyway.
>
> What would probably help (since I have lots of \items and lots of math -
> it's a number of problem sets in analysis;) - btw, available at
> http://mbork.pl/?action=browse;id=Mathematical_Analysis_for_Computer_Science_2)
> would be an automatic \page[bigpreference] before each \item.  Is that
> possible?

\setupitemize[inbetween=\allowbreak\blank]

or

\setupitemize[inbetween=\goodbreak\blank]

or

...

Wolfgang
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
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