strange (?) exporting from pdf

strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

Hi to all,
I was trying to convert form pdf to rtf in order to share docs with 
non-conTeXt people. Acrobat 7.0 allows with "save as" to export to many 
formats.
When I convert a pdf created with MSword (or something like: I tried 
also with some on-line pdfs) I have substantially no problems.
But when I convert pdfs created with context or latex I have no blank 
spaces in the output rtf. Also, accents became autonomous ' (like in 
source). This seems to be systematic: same behavior with conversion to  
doc or html, same behavior if I use Trapeze converter instead of 
Acrobat.

E.g.:
pdf in			-->		out (rtf, doc, ...):
				
questo è un test 	--> 	questo`euntest

I suppose it depends on pedf source generation.
Any hints?

Thanks a lot

-a-




Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

Thanks Mojca,
Nothing changed adding the lines you wrote, also with permutation.
I'm using TeXShop Version 1.35 (v1.35e) on macosx 10.3.8

Best

-a-

On 15 Oct 2005, at 22:58, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> I don't have Acrobat at the moment and I can't try it. The problem
> with missing spaces is pretty strange (it's known but it should have
> been improved in the more recent versions as far as I know). Accents
> should be solvable (read: if they don't work, something has to be done
> so that they will start working).
>
> See  
> http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/ 
> 20050727.103550.62ca287e.en.html
>
> \useencoding[pfr]
> \startencoding [ec]
>   \usepdffontresource ec
> \stopencoding
>
> % perhaps the order is important (that these two lines have to be
> above instead of below)
> \usetypescript[modern][ec]
> \setupbodyfont[rm]
>
> Does this improve anything?
>
>
> (I recently very rarely read the mailing list; please cc responses to
> mojca.miklavec@guest.arnes.si as well.)
>
> Mojca
>
>
Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[Hans Hagen]

andrea valle wrote:

> Hi to all,
> I was trying to convert form pdf to rtf in order to share docs with 
> non-conTeXt people. Acrobat 7.0 allows with "save as" to export to 
> many formats.
> When I convert a pdf created with MSword (or something like: I tried 
> also with some on-line pdfs) I have substantially no problems.
> But when I convert pdfs created with context or latex I have no blank 
> spaces in the output rtf. Also, accents became autonomous ' (like in 
> source). This seems to be systematic: same behavior with conversion 
> to  doc or html, same behavior if I use Trapeze converter instead of 
> Acrobat.
>
> E.g.:
> pdf in            -->        out (rtf, doc, ...):
>                
> questo � un test     -->     questo`euntest
>
> I suppose it depends on pedf source generation.
> Any hints?

tex does not have a space, and spacing ends up in skips; also, sometimes slot 32 is used for whatever char needs a slot; 

your problem is not related to pdftex, but a bug in the exporter which is unable to handle arbitrary encodings 

an option is to use texnansi encoding which is the least problematic one 

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2005-10-17 um 10:27 schrieb Hans Hagen:

>> I was trying to convert form pdf to rtf in order to share docs  
>> with non-conTeXt people. Acrobat 7.0 allows with "save as" to  
>> export to many formats.
>> When I convert a pdf created with MSword (or something like: I  
>> tried also with some on-line pdfs) I have substantially no problems.
>> But when I convert pdfs created with context or latex I have no  
>> blank spaces in the output rtf. Also, accents became autonomous  
>> ' (like in source). This seems to be systematic: same behavior  
>> with conversion to  doc or html, same behavior if I use Trapeze  
>> converter instead of Acrobat.
>
> tex does not have a space, and spacing ends up in skips; also,  
> sometimes slot 32 is used for whatever char needs a slot;
> your problem is not related to pdftex, but a bug in the exporter  
> which is unable to handle arbitrary encodings
> an option is to use texnansi encoding which is the least  
> problematic one

I just read that Acrobat has an export bug since 6.0 (still exists in  
new 7.0.5), that eats sometimes also spaces and accented characters  
from MSW and other sources.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2193 bytes --]

Thanks to all. I'm still struggling to find a way to share easily 
common documents with non-Context world. I thought I would have solved 
passing directly form the final pdf output to doc/rtf format, but it 
seems that I will have to give up.

Best

-a-

On 17 Oct 2005, at 10:27, Hans Hagen wrote:

> andrea valle wrote:
>
>> Hi to all,
>> I was trying to convert form pdf to rtf in order to share docs with 
>> non-conTeXt people. Acrobat 7.0 allows with "save as" to export to 
>> many formats.
>> When I convert a pdf created with MSword (or something like: I tried 
>> also with some on-line pdfs) I have substantially no problems.
>> But when I convert pdfs created with context or latex I have no blank 
>> spaces in the output rtf. Also, accents became autonomous ' (like in 
>> source). This seems to be systematic: same behavior with conversion 
>> to  doc or html, same behavior if I use Trapeze converter instead of 
>> Acrobat.
>>
>> E.g.:
>> pdf in            -->        out (rtf, doc, ...):
>>                questo � un test     -->     questo`euntest
>>
>> I suppose it depends on pedf source generation.
>> Any hints?
>
> tex does not have a space, and spacing ends up in skips; also, 
> sometimes slot 32 is used for whatever char needs a slot;
> your problem is not related to pdftex, but a bug in the exporter which 
> is unable to handle arbitrary encodings
> an option is to use texnansi encoding which is the least problematic 
> one
> Hans
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
Andrea Valle
DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/enriched, Size: 2248 bytes --]

Thanks to all. I'm still struggling to find a way to share easily
common documents with non-Context world. I thought I would have solved
passing directly form the final pdf output to doc/rtf format, but it
seems that I will have to give up.


Best


-a- 


On 17 Oct 2005, at 10:27, Hans Hagen wrote:


<excerpt>andrea valle wrote:


<excerpt>Hi to all,

I was trying to convert form pdf to rtf in order to share docs with
non-conTeXt people. Acrobat 7.0 allows with "save as" to export to
many formats.

When I convert a pdf created with MSword (or something like: I tried
also with some on-line pdfs) I have substantially no problems.

But when I convert pdfs created with context or latex I have no blank
spaces in the output rtf. Also, accents became autonomous ' (like in
source). This seems to be systematic: same behavior with conversion to 
doc or html, same behavior if I use Trapeze converter instead of
Acrobat.


E.g.:

pdf in            -->        out (rtf, doc, ...):

               questo
<fontfamily><param>LastResort</param>�</fontfamily> un test     -->    
questo`euntest


I suppose it depends on pedf source generation.

Any hints?

</excerpt>

tex does not have a space, and spacing ends up in skips; also,
sometimes slot 32 is used for whatever char needs a slot; 

your problem is not related to pdftex, but a bug in the exporter which
is unable to handle arbitrary encodings 

an option is to use texnansi encoding which is the least problematic
one 

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

                                         Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE

             Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands

    tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com

                                            | www.pragma-pod.nl

-----------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________

ntg-context mailing list

ntg-context@ntg.nl

http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context



</excerpt>Andrea Valle

DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione

Università degli Studi di Torino

andrea.valle@unito.it


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2005-10-18 um 01:10 schrieb andrea valle:

> Thanks to all. I'm still struggling to find a way to share easily  
> common documents with non-Context world. I thought I would have  
> solved passing directly form the final pdf output to doc/rtf  
> format, but it seems that I will have to give up.

Seems like the best way would be a XML source that you can process  
with ConTeXt to PDF or with XSLT to something completely different...


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

Yes, but the main problem is the "something completely different".
I should implement rtf format as the output of XSLT (XHTML would be 
feasible).


-a-

On 18 Oct 2005, at 10:07, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

> Am 2005-10-18 um 01:10 schrieb andrea valle:
>
>> Thanks to all. I'm still struggling to find a way to share easily 
>> common documents with non-Context world. I thought I would have 
>> solved passing directly form the final pdf output to doc/rtf format, 
>> but it seems that I will have to give up.
>
> Seems like the best way would be a XML source that you can process 
> with ConTeXt to PDF or with XSLT to something completely different...
>
>
> Grüßlis vom Hraban!
> ---
> http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
> http://contextgarden.net
> http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
Andrea Valle
DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

Yes, but the main problem is the "something completely different".
I should implement rtf format as the output of XSLT (XHTML would be 
feasible).


-a-


On 18 Oct 2005, at 10:07, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

> Am 2005-10-18 um 01:10 schrieb andrea valle:
>
>> Thanks to all. I'm still struggling to find a way to share easily 
>> common documents with non-Context world. I thought I would have 
>> solved passing directly form the final pdf output to doc/rtf format, 
>> but it seems that I will have to give up.
>
> Seems like the best way would be a XML source that you can process 
> with ConTeXt to PDF or with XSLT to something completely different...
>
>
> Grüßlis vom Hraban!
> ---
> http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
> http://contextgarden.net
> http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
Andrea Valle
DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

>> Seems like the best way would be a XML source that you can process  
>> with ConTeXt to PDF or with XSLT to something completely different...
> Yes, but the main problem is the "something completely different".
> I should implement rtf format as the output of XSLT (XHTML would be  
> feasible).

I'm not a XML guru (never tried XML with ConTeXt), but I guess if you  
use a XML format like DocBook (or even OpenOffice's) there'd be a  
ready-to-use way for RTF.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

Thanks a lot, I was in fact investigating OO.
-a-

On 18 Oct 2005, at 11:10, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

>>> Seems like the best way would be a XML source that you can process 
>>> with ConTeXt to PDF or with XSLT to something completely 
>>> different...
>> Yes, but the main problem is the "something completely different".
>> I should implement rtf format as the output of XSLT (XHTML would be 
>> feasible).
>
> I'm not a XML guru (never tried XML with ConTeXt), but I guess if you 
> use a XML format like DocBook (or even OpenOffice's) there'd be a 
> ready-to-use way for RTF.
>
>
> Grüßlis vom Hraban!
> ---
> http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
> http://contextgarden.net
> http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
Andrea Valle
DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

>> I'm not a XML guru (never tried XML with ConTeXt), but I guess if  
>> you use a XML format like DocBook (or even OpenOffice's) there'd  
>> be a ready-to-use way for RTF.
> Thanks a lot, I was in fact investigating OO.

If you make up something useful from OpenDocumentFormat (or OOo's old  
format), please share it – I guess an OOo to ConTeXt converter would  
help some people.

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

(sorry, the last one was a message sent tow days ago by a wrong 
address.)

Yes, in case of something useful, I will surely keep the list informed.

Best

-a-




On 18 Oct 2005, at 22:09, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

>>> I'm not a XML guru (never tried XML with ConTeXt), but I guess if 
>>> you use a XML format like DocBook (or even OpenOffice's) there'd be 
>>> a ready-to-use way for RTF.
>> Thanks a lot, I was in fact investigating OO.
>
> If you make up something useful from OpenDocumentFormat (or OOo's old 
> format), please share it – I guess an OOo to ConTeXt converter would 
> help some people.
>
> Grüßlis vom Hraban!
> ---
> http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
> http://contextgarden.net
> http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
Andrea Valle
DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[olivier Turlier]

Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>>> I'm not a XML guru (never tried XML with ConTeXt), but I guess if  
>>> you use a XML format like DocBook (or even OpenOffice's) there'd  be 
>>> a ready-to-use way for RTF.
>>
>> Thanks a lot, I was in fact investigating OO.
> 
> 
> If you make up something useful from OpenDocumentFormat (or OOo's old  
> format), please share it – I guess an OOo to ConTeXt converter would  
> help some people.
> 
> Grüßlis vom Hraban!
> ---
> http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
> http://contextgarden.net
> http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

There is an exporter from OO to latex & XHTML, maintained by henrik 
Jensen : writer2latex (http://www.hj-gym.dk/~hj/writer2latex/).
I've asked him if he could add context export, but he have no time to do 
it right now. So if someone is willing to ...

Regards

--
olivier Turlier

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[Hans Hagen Test]

Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

>>> I'm not a XML guru (never tried XML with ConTeXt), but I guess if  
>>> you use a XML format like DocBook (or even OpenOffice's) there'd  be 
>>> a ready-to-use way for RTF.
>>
>> Thanks a lot, I was in fact investigating OO.
>
>
> If you make up something useful from OpenDocumentFormat (or OOo's old  
> format), please share it � I guess an OOo to ConTeXt converter would  
> help some people.

actually i've done some of that some time ago in an experimental 
project; doable as long asin oo one does not mess round too much with 
tabs (not that well structured xml)

Hans

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1595 bytes --]


After tweaking a bit with OO, I realized that defining precisely the 
format options is not my goal.
My goal is to have as input structured text (model) to be mapped to 
different outputs (views).

So, actually my minimal, low cost, idea for a setup is the following:

1. Write your doc in xhtml.
2. To interchange: open it directly in OO and convert it to rtf (doc, 
etc...). This is the strenght of (x)html
3. To have ConTeXt (great) output:
	3.1 use xml commands in Context
	3.2 translate in ConTeXt via a regular expression based python script 
(my default)
	This is the stenght of x(ht)ml

-a-

On 25 Oct 2005, at 00:51, Hans Hagen Test wrote:

> Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>
>>>> I'm not a XML guru (never tried XML with ConTeXt), but I guess if  
>>>> you use a XML format like DocBook (or even OpenOffice's) there'd  
>>>> be a ready-to-use way for RTF.
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot, I was in fact investigating OO.
>>
>>
>> If you make up something useful from OpenDocumentFormat (or OOo's old 
>>  format), please share it � I guess an OOo to ConTeXt converter would 
>>  help some people.
>
> actually i've done some of that some time ago in an experimental 
> project; doable as long asin oo one does not mess round too much with 
> tabs (not that well structured xml)
>
> Hans
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
Andrea Valle
DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/enriched, Size: 1718 bytes --]



After tweaking a bit with OO, I realized that defining precisely the
format options is not my goal. 

My goal is to have as input structured text (model) to be mapped to
different outputs (views).


So, actually my minimal, low cost, idea for a setup is the following:


1. Write your doc in xhtml. 

2. To interchange: open it directly in OO and convert it to rtf (doc,
etc...). This is the strenght of (x)html

3. To have ConTeXt (great) output: 

	3.1 use xml commands in Context

	3.2 translate in ConTeXt via a regular expression based python script
(my default)  

	This is the stenght of x(ht)ml


-a-


On 25 Oct 2005, at 00:51, Hans Hagen Test wrote:


<excerpt>Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:


<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>I'm not a XML guru (never tried XML with
ConTeXt), but I guess if  you use a XML format like DocBook (or even
OpenOffice's) there'd  be a ready-to-use way for RTF.

</excerpt>

Thanks a lot, I was in fact investigating OO.

</excerpt>


If you make up something useful from OpenDocumentFormat (or OOo's old 
format), please share it
<fontfamily><param>LastResort</param>�</fontfamily> I guess an OOo to
ConTeXt converter would  help some people.

</excerpt>

actually i've done some of that some time ago in an experimental
project; doable as long asin oo one does not mess round too much with
tabs (not that well structured xml)


Hans

_______________________________________________

ntg-context mailing list

ntg-context@ntg.nl

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</excerpt>Andrea Valle

DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione

Università degli Studi di Torino

andrea.valle@unito.it


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[Christopher Creutzig]

andrea valle wrote:

> 3.2 translate in ConTeXt via a regular expression based python script

 I've been there and done that and I won't do it again.  Use a real xml
parser; regular expression engines are a wonderful thing, but not really
usable for parsing nested structures.  I'm sure there are many, many xml
parsers for python to choose from.


regards,
	Christopher

Re: strange (?) exporting from pdf

[andrea valle]

I agree with you (and it's true there are many python xml parser).
Actually, in order to share drafts of documents (which is my minimal 
purpose) I need very simple tagging, and it's convenient to use my 
little parser.
When complexity passes my (low) manageability treshold, I will move to 
dom api.

best

-a-

On 3 Nov 2005, at 08:58, Christopher Creutzig wrote:

> andrea valle wrote:
>
>> 3.2 translate in ConTeXt via a regular expression based python script
>
>  I've been there and done that and I won't do it again.  Use a real xml
> parser; regular expression engines are a wonderful thing, but not 
> really
> usable for parsing nested structures.  I'm sure there are many, many 
> xml
> parsers for python to choose from.
>
>
> regards,
> 	Christopher
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
Andrea Valle
DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it