Hyphenmark and composed words

Hyphenmark and composed words

[Olivier Guéry]

Hello,

I tried to force hyphen in composed word with this : « composed||word
» as explain in the manual.
(Strange that context can't know that he can cut composed words after
the dash, maybe it's only a french rule).

In french, the hyphenmark is « - », not « – » (endash).

So I tried \setuphyphenmark [sign = -] but no effect, I still get a « – ».
This syntax : « composed|-|word » works.

Cheers,
Olivier.


-- 
[Message tapé sur un clavier Bépo : http://www.clavier-dvorak.org ]
http://nemolivier.blogspot.com
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Re: Hyphenmark and composed words

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:45 AM, Olivier Guéry <nemolivier@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I tried to force hyphen in composed word with this : « composed||word
> » as explain in the manual.
> (Strange that context can't know that he can cut composed words after
> the dash, maybe it's only a french rule).
>
> In french, the hyphenmark is « - », not « – » (endash).
>
> So I tried \setuphyphenmark [sign = -] but no effect, I still get a « – ».
> This syntax : « composed|-|word » works.

\definetextmodediscretionary {}
  {\hyphenliketextmodediscretionary\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen\empty\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen}

\setuphyphenmark[sign=-]

\starttext
composed||word
\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: Hyphenmark and composed words

[Olivier Guéry]

2008/7/11 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>:
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:45 AM, Olivier Guéry <nemolivier@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I tried to force hyphen in composed word with this : « composed||word
>> » as explain in the manual.
>> (Strange that context can't know that he can cut composed words after
>> the dash, maybe it's only a french rule).
>>
>> In french, the hyphenmark is « - », not « – » (endash).
>>
>> So I tried \setuphyphenmark [sign = -] but no effect, I still get a « – ».
>> This syntax : « composed|-|word » works.
>
> \definetextmodediscretionary {}
>  {\hyphenliketextmodediscretionary\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen\empty\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen}
>
> \setuphyphenmark[sign=-]

It works. Is this the new usual syntax (please, no ! ;)) or just a workaround ?

Is there something to setup that hyphenate should alway cut composed
words after the « - » ?
For the moment, I must enter all composed word with « || » ? Like « où
va||t||il ? » instead of « où va-t-il ? »
We should never cut like this :
«foo bar com-
posed-word »
but
« foo bar composed-
word. »

Cheers,
Olivier.
-- 
[Message tapé sur un clavier Bépo : http://www.clavier-dvorak.org ]
http://nemolivier.blogspot.com
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Hyphenmark and composed words

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Olivier Guéry <nemolivier@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2008/7/11 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>:
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:45 AM, Olivier Guéry <nemolivier@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I tried to force hyphen in composed word with this : « composed||word
>>> » as explain in the manual.
>>> (Strange that context can't know that he can cut composed words after
>>> the dash, maybe it's only a french rule).
>>>
>>> In french, the hyphenmark is « - », not « – » (endash).
>>>
>>> So I tried \setuphyphenmark [sign = -] but no effect, I still get a « – ».
>>> This syntax : « composed|-|word » works.
>>
>> \definetextmodediscretionary {}
>>  {\hyphenliketextmodediscretionary\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen\empty\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen}
>>
>> \setuphyphenmark[sign=-]
>
> It works. Is this the new usual syntax (please, no ! ;)) or just a workaround ?

Just a workaroung, it's up to Hans to fix this in some way.

A short solution for the moment is:

\def\compoundhyphen{-}

> Is there something to setup that hyphenate should alway cut composed
> words after the « - » ?
> For the moment, I must enter all composed word with « || » ? Like « où
> va||t||il ? » instead of « où va-t-il ? »

For MkII, I don't think so, MkIV should be possible but Hans or Taco can
give you a better answer. You shouldn't forget in some cases like 'X-Rays'
a break after the hyphen is not allowed.

> We should never cut like this :
> «foo bar com-
> posed-word »
> but
> « foo bar composed-
> word. »

Regards,
Wolfgang
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Re: Hyphenmark and composed words

[Charles P. Schaum]

The whole issue of typesetting URL's is dodgy because style manuals like
Chicago don't want them broken.

Now, Chicago is pretty conservative and has the idea that people are
going to type stuff in verbatim from printed bubs and furthermore that
they will always interpret a line break as a return keystroke.

They also want archival type info stored in the bib entry, as if
archive.org did not exist.

I don't see, however, that squishing a URL down to minuscule type sizes
is the answer, because using a loupe to read a URL is nuts.
Electronically, this is simply BFD. One might consider using a verbatim
or typewriter font switch and have that signal continuity over line
breaks. That has been my approach for print matter. Still, I have
avoided hyphenating a URL unless it already has one, and even then if
the hyphen breaks in such a way that the linear composition is way
underfull on a line, you get stuck with an ugly line. I generally break
a URL at a virgule (/) closest to a good line break.

Incidentally, David Fussner has been working on a Chicago style for
Philipp Lehman's biblatex. He has been in communication with Joseph
Reagle and me, who had done independent work on the same thing. Will
something like biblatex ever appear in ConTeXt, and how might that
happen?

I know that Lehmann has been busy, but the whole idea of a
user-extensible bib syntax that doesn't require kludging bibtex is
great. Even better would be to have a set of BNF/RE style files like
Endnotes, though the implementation eludes me. Lehman's biblatex seems
to do that via LaTeX.

Charles

On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 12:22 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Olivier Guéry <nemolivier@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2008/7/11 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>:
> >> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:45 AM, Olivier Guéry <nemolivier@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I tried to force hyphen in composed word with this : « composed||word
> >>> » as explain in the manual.
> >>> (Strange that context can't know that he can cut composed words after
> >>> the dash, maybe it's only a french rule).
> >>>
> >>> In french, the hyphenmark is « - », not « – » (endash).
> >>>
> >>> So I tried \setuphyphenmark [sign = -] but no effect, I still get a « – ».
> >>> This syntax : « composed|-|word » works.
> >>
> >> \definetextmodediscretionary {}
> >>  {\hyphenliketextmodediscretionary\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen\empty\defaultdiscretionaryhyphen}
> >>
> >> \setuphyphenmark[sign=-]
> >
> > It works. Is this the new usual syntax (please, no ! ;)) or just a workaround ?
> 
> Just a workaroung, it's up to Hans to fix this in some way.
> 
> A short solution for the moment is:
> 
> \def\compoundhyphen{-}
> 
> > Is there something to setup that hyphenate should alway cut composed
> > words after the « - » ?
> > For the moment, I must enter all composed word with « || » ? Like « où
> > va||t||il ? » instead of « où va-t-il ? »
> 
> For MkII, I don't think so, MkIV should be possible but Hans or Taco can
> give you a better answer. You shouldn't forget in some cases like 'X-Rays'
> a break after the hyphen is not allowed.
> 
> > We should never cut like this :
> > «foo bar com-
> > posed-word »
> > but
> > « foo bar composed-
> > word. »
> 
> Regards,
> Wolfgang
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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