* Senteces @ 2000-10-10 12:14 Giuseppe Bilotta 2000-10-11 8:49 ` Senteces Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2000-10-10 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Hello, I just discovered a need for a particular treatment of sentences (speechs?) in some typographic styles. Precisely, in Italy, when a spoken sentence is longer that a paragraph, you usually put a guillemot at the beginning of every paragraph included in the sentence, and put a closing guillemot only at the end of the final paragraph. Moreover, you use guillemots at the beginning of intermediate paragraphs even when (alongside the american typography) you use --- to begin speechs. In some way, this behaviour can be compared to the french behaviour (presented in the Omega documentation) regarding the repetition of guillemots down the left side of the paragraph. In Italy it's easier, since it can be accomodated with an \everypar. Is it already implemented (in some hidden way), or do I have to redefine something to achieve this behaviour? Giuseppe Bilotta ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Senteces 2000-10-10 12:14 Senteces Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2000-10-11 8:49 ` Hans Hagen [not found] ` <000a01c03626$348a2620$bf470e97@nuovo> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2000-10-11 8:49 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ConTeXt At 02:14 PM 10/10/00 +0200, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote: >Hello, I just discovered a need for a particular treatment of sentences >(speechs?) in some typographic styles. > >Precisely, in Italy, when a spoken sentence is longer that a paragraph, you >usually put a guillemot at the beginning of every paragraph included in the >sentence, and put a closing guillemot only at the end of the final >paragraph. Moreover, you use guillemots at the beginning of intermediate >paragraphs even when (alongside the american typography) you use --- to >begin speechs. \starttext \unprotect \definesymbol [beginquotation] [\getvalue{\??la\currentlanguage\c!leftquotation}] \definesymbol [endquotation] [\getvalue{\??la\currentlanguage\c!rightquotation}] \protect \definestartstop [Iquotation] [before=\startquotation\EveryPar{\symbol[beginquotation]}, after=\stopquotation] \input tufte \startIquotation \input knuth \stopIquotation \input tufte \stoptext It can be an option to the normal quotation mechanism. Do other languages have special requirements? I'm thinking of typo-lgcode classes, which I need for Chinese [under construction] and Farsi [being worked on esp for omega] anyway, Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <000a01c03626$348a2620$bf470e97@nuovo>]
* Re: Senteces [not found] ` <000a01c03626$348a2620$bf470e97@nuovo> @ 2000-10-15 19:58 ` Hans Hagen 2000-10-16 2:14 ` Senteces Ed L Cashin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2000-10-15 19:58 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context, pragma At 07:04 PM 10/14/00 +0200, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote: >Actually, I was thinking of it with a use like: > >\starttext > >|<| Hello |>| he said |<| This is a test. It has some sentences, like >in a speech. > >We have a new paragraph, and so on. For a quick hack: > >\input knuth > >And the we end here |>| > >\stoptext > >Every new paragraph in the speech should have the equivalent of a |<| at the >beginning, but not at the end. An automatic way to do it (rather than using >a >\startIspeech ... \stopIspeech) would be greatly appreciated. This is a test: \global\let\repeatleftsentence\empty \appendtoks \repeatleftsentence \to \everypar \setuplanguage [it] [ leftsentence=\leftguillemot \global\let\repeatleftsentence\leftguillemot, rightsentence=\rightguillemot\global\let\repeatleftsentence\empty] \mainlanguage[it] test |<|test test test \par test test \par test test|>| test \stoptext But, this is the ugly way. We probably need a proper switch. Also, this everypar trick is not really meant for the user level since it may break other code. What do others think of this feature? >> >> It can be an option to the normal quotation mechanism. Do other languages >> have special requirements? I'm thinking of typo-lgcode classes, > >uh? what's that? typo-chi.tex typo-it.tex and alike, not there yet, but needed for chinese, which has a lot of interesting things different from western languages. Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Senteces 2000-10-15 19:58 ` Senteces Hans Hagen @ 2000-10-16 2:14 ` Ed L Cashin 2000-10-16 8:17 ` Senteces Hans Hagen 2000-10-16 21:40 ` Senteces Giuseppe Bilotta 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Ed L Cashin @ 2000-10-16 2:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Giuseppe Bilotta, ntg-context Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes: > What do others think of this feature? I don't understand the issue. If it's just, "quote properly," then why wouldn't the author just put in any necessary quotes in the source, as one would do in English? \starttext Bert said the following: ``I am an ant. ``I am an ant from Jupiter, and I have come here. ``I have come here, and that is that.'' \stoptext using whatever quotation marks are appropriate to the language ... or is it a language-support issue that I don't understand? -- --Ed Cashin PGP public key: ecashin@coe.uga.edu http://www.coe.uga.edu/~ecashin/pgp/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Senteces 2000-10-16 2:14 ` Senteces Ed L Cashin @ 2000-10-16 8:17 ` Hans Hagen 2001-05-28 13:28 ` Reviving and old thread ... Senteces Giuseppe Bilotta 2000-10-16 21:40 ` Senteces Giuseppe Bilotta 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2000-10-16 8:17 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Giuseppe Bilotta, ntg-context At 10:14 PM 10/15/00 -0400, Ed L Cashin wrote: >Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes: > >> What do others think of this feature? > >I don't understand the issue. If it's just, "quote properly," then >why wouldn't the author just put in any necessary quotes in the >source, as one would do in English? > > \starttext > Bert said the following: > > ``I am an ant. > > ``I am an ant from Jupiter, and I have come here. > > ``I have come here, and that is that.'' > \stoptext > >using whatever quotation marks are appropriate to the language ... or >is it a language-support issue that I don't understand? ``I live in europe ''where they have all kind of funny quotes ,,sometimes located low <<or in the middle ``and indeed, sometimes in the american way now `this is a quote 'and this too ``and this is actually a ligature "but not in every font which is why in context we have \quote and \quotation, just to free the author from bothering about these issues, and once you have encountered documents with 5 european languages mixed, you're happy for any automatism -) Once you've lived in europe for a while you will understand why we need a successor of tex that handles all those strange thingies. You may think that the european community solved this, but each language really has special things and they are defended with strong arguments [i have a real funny book about all the contradicting dutch reform committees]. The discussion about << is interesting in itself, since the cmr's don't have them and using less then signs as substitute is horror for the real typographer. So far I'm lucky that nobody noticed, Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Reviving and old thread ... Re: Senteces 2000-10-16 8:17 ` Senteces Hans Hagen @ 2001-05-28 13:28 ` Giuseppe Bilotta 2001-05-28 21:17 ` Giuseppe Bilotta 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-05-28 13:28 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1496 bytes --] Monday, October 16, 2000 Hans Hagen wrote: HH> The discussion about << is interesting in itself, since the cmr's don't HH> have them and using less then signs as substitute is horror for the real HH> typographer. So far I'm lucky that nobody noticed, For those who don't remember, the discussion about << was related to the fact that Italian typography rules want guillemots to be repeated at the beginning of each paragraph of a speech. Like this: <<Hello,>> he said << This is a speech I'm doing. <<This second paragraph is always me speaking, and it wants a guillemots too. <<And so is this one, which is also the last, and thus ends with closing guillemots.>> <<I see.>> said the other. Hans Hagen came out with some code, which I slightly rewrote, and is attached to this post (btw, the code allows the "repeated" quote to be different from the initial quote, like in: <<Hello,>> he said << This is a speech I'm doing. ``This second paragraph is always me speaking, and it wants quotes too. Note however that it is different from the {\em beginning|-|of|-|speech} quoting. ``And so is this one, which is also the last, and thus ends with closing guillemots.>> ). Now I have another question for Hans Hagen: how do I create shorcuts |<<| and |>>| similar to the |<| |>| ones, but that activate speech instead of subsentences? Finally, for the "horrible guillemots" problem ... have you thought about using the ones available in the wasy symbol set? -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta [-- Attachment #2: speech.tex --] [-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 2265 bytes --] begin 644 speech.tex M7'-T87)T8V]N<W1A;G1S("`@("`@("`@("`@9'5T8V@@("`@("`@("`@("`@ M("`@("`@("!E;F=L:7-H#0H@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("!G M97)M86X@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@(&-Z96-H#0H@("`@("`@("`@("`@ M("`@("`@("`@("`@("!I=&%L:6%N("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@(')O;6%N M:6%N#0H-"B`@("`@("`@("`@("`@(&QE9G1S<&5E8V@Z(&QE9G1S<&5E8V@@ M("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@;&5F='-P965C:`T*("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@ M("`@("`@("`@;&5F='-P965C:"`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("!L969T<W!E96-H M#0H@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("!L969T<W!E96-H("`@("`@ M("`@("`@("`@(&QE9G1S<&5E8V@-"B`@("`@("`@("`@("!M:61D;&5S<&5E M8V@Z(&UI9&1L97-P965C:"`@("`@("`@("`@("`@;6ED9&QE<W!E96-H#0H@ M("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("!M:61D;&5S<&5E8V@@("`@("`@ M("`@("`@(&UI9&1L97-P965C:`T*("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@ M("`@;6ED9&QE<W!E96-H("`@("`@("`@("`@("!M:61D;&5S<&5E8V@-"B`@ M("`@("`@("`@("`@<FEG:'1S<&5E8V@Z(')I9VAT<W!E96-H("`@("`@("`@ M("`@("`@<FEG:'1S<&5E8V@-"B`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@ M(')I9VAT<W!E96-H("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@<FEG:'1S<&5E8V@-"B`@("`@ M("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@(')I9VAT<W!E96-H("`@("`@("`@("`@ M("`@<FEG:'1S<&5E8V@-"EQS=&]P8V]N<W1A;G1S#0H-"EQU;G!R;W1E8W0- M"@T*7'-E='5P;&%N9W5A9V4-"B`@6UQS(6ET70T*("!;7&,A;&5F='-P965C M:#U<;&5F=&=U:6QL96UO="P-"B`@(%QC(6UI9&1L97-P965C:#U<=7!P97)L M969T9&]U8FQE<VEX<75O=&4L#0H@("!<8R%R:6=H='-P965C:#U<<FEG:'1G M=6EL;&5M;W1=#0H-"EQD969I;F5S>6UB;VP-"B`@6V)E9VEN<W!E96-H72`- M"B`@6UQG971V86QU97M</S]L85QC=7)R96YT;&%N9W5A9V5<8R%L969T<W!E M96-H?5T-"@T*7&1E9FEN97-Y;6)O;`T*("!;;6ED9&QE<W!E96-H72`-"B`@ M6UQG971V86QU97M</S]L85QC=7)R96YT;&%N9W5A9V5<8R%M:61D;&5S<&5E M8VA]70T*#0I<9&5F:6YE<WEM8F]L#0H@(%ME;F1S<&5E8VA=(`T*("!;7&=E M='9A;'5E>UP_/VQA7&-U<G)E;G1L86YG=6%G95QC(7)I9VAT<W!E96-H?5T- M"B`@#0I<<')O=&5C="`-"@T*7&1E9FEN97-T87)T<W1O<`T*("!;<W!E96-H M70T*("!;8F5F;W)E/5QD;W-T87)T<W!E96-H7$5V97)Y4&%R>UQS>6UB;VQ; M;6ED9&QE<W!E96-H77TL#0H@("!A9G1E<CU<9&]S=&]P<W!E96-H70T*#0I< M9&5F7&1O<W1A<G1S<&5E8VA[7&)G<F]U<%QS>6UB;VQ;8F5G:6YS<&5E8VA= M7&EG;F]R97-P86-E<WT-"EQD969<9&]S=&]P<W!E96-H>UQU;G-K:7!<<WEM M8F]L6V5N9'-P965C:%U<96=R;W5P?0T*#0I<<W1A<G1T97AT(`T*#0I<;6%I M;FQA;F=U86=E6VET70T*#0I<<V5T=7!I;F1E;G1I;F=;;65D:75M70T*#0I< M:6YP=70@='5F=&4@#0H-"EQS=&%R='-P965C:`T*7&EN<'5T(&MN=71H(`T* M7'-T;W!S<&5E8V@-"@T*7&EN<'5T('1U9G1E(`T*#0I<<W1O<'1E>'0-"@T* "#0H` ` end ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Reviving and old thread ... Re: Senteces 2001-05-28 13:28 ` Reviving and old thread ... Senteces Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-05-28 21:17 ` Giuseppe Bilotta 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-05-28 21:17 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 423 bytes --] Monday, May 28, 2001 Giuseppe Bilotta wrote: GB> Now I have another question for Hans Hagen: how do I create GB> shorcuts |<<| and |>>| similar to the |<| |>| ones, but that GB> activate speech instead of subsentences? I seem to have partially resolved the problem. It compiles, even if it gives a few "Extra }'s" errors. Hans, can you check this out, and see where do the errors come from? -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta [-- Attachment #2: speech.tex.bz2 --] [-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1587 bytes --] begin 644 speech.tex.bz2 M0EIH.3%!62936:(A_*<``B%_@'A^X(!N[WD7@B!$#[_O__]0!/CV,FTH&9E( M2PDB4VBGZILJ?@4R93]34VH/4`#:AC4T-B@T.8$Q-!A,F3)D83!--,C$P!#` M)$A-!&2GM4,RC)IHR``#0830:>H.8$Q-!A,F3)D83!--,C$P!#`%24-%/4]- M1A-/53>H$!H&@`!H`:;4Q!+8P#`0`,&-+=^,/O$MS];:L<["G7QT-I=V',^> M;.QND$H#6T3DNLI94'ET&+`Y"^O2WTQ??4E?A1UNQS5T=2K5:5Z=<&IHN88L M($`=R^72!?42%(CNJTI2<57)#`BNME^QPF0E0V;V0#XEN]Y4?BJ2[^Z7>@]N MGWFK5MP_PGP9LYCI%XYS26LA^0V.^L=]N)/DQE'J8V*,<S?7J1UC`[ZBY37M MUNU"JC$BS$<'[(-T"[1-5C,.!+2Y/:+EXHV=UGLVLGEU:#!C9,H5(DD>,7`N M2QUD%R1Y./0L&&&.UO!6Y82&"?+;'J;;2)QVB_9$)6:XI9*21!Y<*:>6R$N2 MM(L2/.Y-3S]-85&MC!F+&M0VAGKW%=-V$QD:+#-53=0P>C7C93N\-_"RBC4O M%EFZ;<PW0[P*=/K3SIZ)E\%JV>L8>8DS6/^D]];J5H*JZPPT'MD"DQ<J`)_M MY6Z6O#J,B&&K%6H/@DC<5@6AO^1V%-T1VTDLS7+BDPBCT<,;$^:!CBJ]/XS< M1.<3TPL95);T8L$P`VAAJ0G9831&$CGT;XQY7V.$II%[*3!+;1X4(XF;7%F. M_IW(B\GLFD2ID6REP8%=(F9<Z?WH3>:9I?KU&O#?V1->S/@NB=3D7WX0-6<E MR&+%$H5(Z29<^X;=P727E>(HF$DRB\?YC)?@2TN7-EZJW5@-#<31K20SA28/ M8RZB8)T#/?WQ,PT)I=P-N_,Z\NRXXZMJ[K0.;R+-(%>CMSY*+<H)4AE0G@7P M7T%;"<6?#,H7P.*J+N-BN"5J%19S:0<(A4`.E#GFC5HO^2SSH+V6Q7%W'.N@ M@O[V\!K1K8)FZ*(`82,X(<!2UL2&T,;4"DYB'FQQD2*E!$-"B9$`N2I.4.]O MKDKI:)[4V\NL"F-$LPHZQ//,\,3--#MP86JX=#="QV5JKS)RWVO1&ZR5!0T@ MPB0:(YL\V/6G8`F2C2"3+ED*,T&Y#$EGEG;XWDZ375ZZTT>(<$UL2B5229.: M^G9OWY[6@;!R,E^V?7M;W,+Z852E2]PFE#AIN."<\&4&QXLF6FDE%&2&4@6T M*!LS&6T&GI(4F,$VD4B)XDC?BPU@F+.+ZJH0%35CC8_0PLX6YRMQ0!E"60!, M%Q(60H3F.Y7&+"%#AN'`X+D&-!8WJW>`UL;27G&B:O#%.*^YP3GA)EST)X9% MC>55*B6G*297R2+0XL:D[94)IX^">D[YFEN[?-XOLJVVY2ME/[.MU"5&CW'1 M^3C.@^1/3E;PN_.`VM9'R'99NW2F7,;V"#/DDG8FN[F_+N>#T_\7<D4X4)"B #(?RG ` end ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Senteces 2000-10-16 2:14 ` Senteces Ed L Cashin 2000-10-16 8:17 ` Senteces Hans Hagen @ 2000-10-16 21:40 ` Giuseppe Bilotta 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2000-10-16 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context > > I don't understand the issue. If it's just, "quote properly," then > why wouldn't the author just put in any necessary quotes in the > source, as one would do in English? > > \starttext > Bert said the following: > > ``I am an ant. > > ``I am an ant from Jupiter, and I have come here. > > ``I have come here, and that is that.'' > \stoptext > > using whatever quotation marks are appropriate to the language ... or > is it a language-support issue that I don't understand? > It's not an "issue". It's just that I use |<| ... |>| whenever putting spoken parts, and I should resort to that trick everytime I have multipar speeches. And I cannot to |<| Speech par 1. |<| Speech par 2.|>| because the second |<| turns out to be a subsentence (which is not the case), and the |>| closes the subsentence instead of the sentence. Giuseppe Bilotta ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-05-28 21:17 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2000-10-10 12:14 Senteces Giuseppe Bilotta 2000-10-11 8:49 ` Senteces Hans Hagen [not found] ` <000a01c03626$348a2620$bf470e97@nuovo> 2000-10-15 19:58 ` Senteces Hans Hagen 2000-10-16 2:14 ` Senteces Ed L Cashin 2000-10-16 8:17 ` Senteces Hans Hagen 2001-05-28 13:28 ` Reviving and old thread ... Senteces Giuseppe Bilotta 2001-05-28 21:17 ` Giuseppe Bilotta 2000-10-16 21:40 ` Senteces Giuseppe Bilotta
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