Itemize without page break

Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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Hey list,

Is there any way to hint to ConTeXt that the contents of a \startitemize
\stopitemize pair should try to be all on the same page?

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[luigi scarso]

On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 2:47 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
> Hey list,
>
> Is there any way to hint to ConTeXt that the contents of a \startitemize
> \stopitemize pair should try to be all on the same page?
plain old tex
\vbox{%
\startitemize
\stopitemize%
}
?

-- 
luigi
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 17.03.2012 um 10:21 schrieb luigi scarso:

> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 2:47 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
>> Hey list,
>> 
>> Is there any way to hint to ConTeXt that the contents of a \startitemize
>> \stopitemize pair should try to be all on the same page?
> plain old tex
> \vbox{%
> \startitemize
> \stopitemize%
> }

Better:

\startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection]
…
\stopitemize

You can control the space before/after the linecorrection environment with the optional
argument which accepts all values for \blank, e.g. \startlinecorrection[2*line].

Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Sat, 2012-03-17 at 11:21 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 17.03.2012 um 10:21 schrieb luigi scarso:
> 
> > On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 2:47 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
> >> Hey list,
> >> 
> >> Is there any way to hint to ConTeXt that the contents of a \startitemize
> >> \stopitemize pair should try to be all on the same page?
> > plain old tex
> > \vbox{%
> > \startitemize
> > \stopitemize%
> > }
> 
> Better:
> 
> \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection]
> 
> \stopitemize
> 
> You can control the space before/after the linecorrection environment with the optional
> argument which accepts all values for \blank, e.g. \startlinecorrection[2*line].
> 
> Wolfgang

Hey Wolfgang,

The good news is that this is probably what I need. The bad news is
luatex completely blows itself to pieces, allocating memory until the
system crashes. 

After much grinding of the machine, I managed to finally SIGSTOP and
attach gdb to the naughty process.

I've cc'd the luatex user mailing list since this is probably, I
suppose, a luatex issue more than a ConTeXt one.

I am using luatex beta-0.71.0-2012030522 (rev 4364) through context
version 2012.03.13 21:26 on amd64 hardware running Ubuntu Maverick.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

[-- Attachment #1.1.2: gdb.log --]
[-- Type: text/x-log, Size: 7005 bytes --]

$ gdb luatex 8477
GNU gdb (GDB) 7.2-ubuntu
Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.  Type "show copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "x86_64-linux-gnu".
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>...
Reading symbols from /usr/bin/luatex...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/luatex...done.
done.
Attaching to program: /usr/bin/luatex, process 8477
Reading symbols from /lib/libpng12.so.0...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libpng12.so.0
Reading symbols from /lib/libz.so.1...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libz.so.1
Reading symbols from /lib/libdl.so.2...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/lib/libdl-2.12.1.so...done.
done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libdl.so.2
Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
Reading symbols from /lib/libm.so.6...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/lib/libm-2.12.1.so...done.
done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libm.so.6
Reading symbols from /lib/libgcc_s.so.1...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libgcc_s.so.1
Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.6...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/lib/libc-2.12.1.so...done.
done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.6
Reading symbols from /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/lib/ld-2.12.1.so...done.
done.
Loaded symbols for /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
0x00000000004a24d1 in get_avail () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/textoken.w:154
154	../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/textoken.w: No such file or directory.
	in ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/textoken.w
(gdb) bt full
#0  0x00000000004a24d1 in get_avail () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/textoken.w:154
        p = 273242622
        t = 273242621
#1  0x0000000000471ded in macro_call () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/expand.w:658
        r = 273242622
        p = 273242621
        q = 273242622
        s = -2109026328
        t = <value optimised out>
        u = 1572864
        v = <value optimised out>
        rbrace_ptr = <value optimised out>
        n = <value optimised out>
        unbalance = 9
        m = 257
        ref_count = 163662
        save_scanner_status = 0
        save_warning_index = 3331
        match_chr = 35
#2  0x0000000000472a45 in get_x_token () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/expand.w:384
No locals.
#3  0x0000000000511819 in test_for_cs () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/conditional.w:176
        m = <value optimised out>
        s = <value optimised out>
        p = 526371
#4  conditional () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/conditional.w:483
        b = <value optimised out>
        r = <value optimised out>
        m = <value optimised out>
        n = <value optimised out>
        p = <value optimised out>
---Type <return> to continue, or q <return> to quit---
        q = <value optimised out>
        save_scanner_status = <value optimised out>
        save_cond_ptr = 74229
        this_if = <value optimised out>
#5  0x0000000000472695 in expand () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/expand.w:236
        t = <value optimised out>
        p = <value optimised out>
        cur_ptr = <value optimised out>
        cv_backup = 1
        cvl_backup = 0
        radix_backup = 0
        co_backup = 0
        backup_backup = 0
        save_scanner_status = 0
#6  0x0000000000472a7d in get_x_token () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/expand.w:391
No locals.
#7  0x000000000048022d in main_control () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/maincontrol.w:892
No locals.
#8  0x0000000000477fa7 in main_body () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/mainbody.w:469
        pdftex_map = "pdftex.map"
#9  0x000000000045818e in main (ac=<value optimised out>, av=<value optimised out>)
    at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/luatex.c:460
No locals.
(gdb) info registers
rax            0x104959fe	273242622
rbx            0x104959fd	273242621
rcx            0x104959fe	273242622
rdx            0x2b80e8bbc010	47832660426768
rsi            0x136f35e2	326055394
rdi            0x2b8184356f28	47835268869928
rbp            0x9	0x9
rsp            0x7fff97386740	0x7fff97386740
r8             0x28	40
r9             0x180000	1572864
r10            0x0	0
r11            0x2b80e6dff0b1	47832629244081
r12            0x13fa88	1309320
r13            0x101	257
r14            0x27f4e	163662
r15            0x824acfe8	2185940968
rip            0x4a24d1	0x4a24d1 <get_avail+49>
eflags         0x10202	[ IF RF ]
cs             0x33	51
ss             0x2b	43
ds             0x0	0
es             0x0	0
fs             0x0	0
gs             0x0	0
(gdb) x/16i $pc
=> 0x4a24d1 <get_avail+49>:	movl   $0x0,0x4(%rdx,%rcx,8)
   0x4a24d9 <get_avail+57>:	addl   $0x1,0x963a88(%rip)        # 0xe05f68 <dyn_used>
   0x4a24e0 <get_avail+64>:	pop    %rbx
   0x4a24e1 <get_avail+65>:	retq   
   0x4a24e2 <get_avail+66>:	jmp    0x4a24e8 <get_avail+72>
   0x4a24e4 <get_avail+68>:	nop
   0x4a24e5 <get_avail+69>:	nop
   0x4a24e6 <get_avail+70>:	nop
   0x4a24e7 <get_avail+71>:	nop
   0x4a24e8 <get_avail+72>:	mov    %esi,%eax
   0x4a24ea <get_avail+74>:	mov    $0xcccccccd,%ebx
   0x4a24ef <get_avail+79>:	mov    0x963a6a(%rip),%rdi        # 0xe05f60 <fixmem>
   0x4a24f6 <get_avail+86>:	mul    %ebx
   0x4a24f8 <get_avail+88>:	mov    %edx,%ebx
   0x4a24fa <get_avail+90>:	shr    $0x2,%ebx
   0x4a24fd <get_avail+93>:	lea    0x1(%rbx,%rsi,1),%esi
(gdb) thread apply all backtrace

Thread 1 (process 8477):
#0  0x00000000004a24d1 in get_avail () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/textoken.w:154
#1  0x0000000000471ded in macro_call () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/expand.w:658
#2  0x0000000000472a45 in get_x_token () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/expand.w:384
#3  0x0000000000511819 in test_for_cs () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/conditional.w:176
#4  conditional () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/conditional.w:483
#5  0x0000000000472695 in expand () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/expand.w:236
#6  0x0000000000472a7d in get_x_token () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/expand.w:391
#7  0x000000000048022d in main_control () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/maincontrol.w:892
#8  0x0000000000477fa7 in main_body () at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/mainbody.w:469
#9  0x000000000045818e in main (ac=<value optimised out>, av=<value optimised out>)
    at ../../../source/texk/web2c/luatexdir/luatex.c:460
(gdb)


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 16:25 -0700, Kip Warner wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-03-17 at 11:21 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> > Am 17.03.2012 um 10:21 schrieb luigi scarso:
> > 
> > > On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 2:47 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
> > >> Hey list,
> > >> 
> > >> Is there any way to hint to ConTeXt that the contents of a \startitemize
> > >> \stopitemize pair should try to be all on the same page?
> > > plain old tex
> > > \vbox{%
> > > \startitemize
> > > \stopitemize%
> > > }
> > 
> > Better:
> > 
> > \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection]
> > 
> > \stopitemize
> > 
> > You can control the space before/after the linecorrection environment with the optional
> > argument which accepts all values for \blank, e.g. \startlinecorrection[2*line].
> > 
> > Wolfgang
> 
> Hey Wolfgang,
> 
> The good news is that this is probably what I need. The bad news is
> luatex completely blows itself to pieces, allocating memory until the
> system crashes. 
> 
> After much grinding of the machine, I managed to finally SIGSTOP and
> attach gdb to the naughty process.
> 
> I've cc'd the luatex user mailing list since this is probably, I
> suppose, a luatex issue more than a ConTeXt one.
> 
> I am using luatex beta-0.71.0-2012030522 (rev 4364) through context
> version 2012.03.13 21:26 on amd64 hardware running Ubuntu Maverick.

One other thing that I should have made more clear, this only happens
when I insert the aforementioned line correction commands.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[luigi scarso]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-03-17 at 11:21 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> Am 17.03.2012 um 10:21 schrieb luigi scarso:
>>
>> > On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 2:47 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
>> >> Hey list,
>> >>
>> >> Is there any way to hint to ConTeXt that the contents of a \startitemize
>> >> \stopitemize pair should try to be all on the same page?
>> > plain old tex
>> > \vbox{%
>> > \startitemize
>> > \stopitemize%
>> > }
>>
>> Better:
>>
>> \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection]
>>
>> \stopitemize
>>
>> You can control the space before/after the linecorrection environment with the optional
>> argument which accepts all values for \blank, e.g. \startlinecorrection[2*line].
>>
>> Wolfgang
>
> Hey Wolfgang,
>
> The good news is that this is probably what I need. The bad news is
> luatex completely blows itself to pieces, allocating memory until the
> system crashes.
example ?
-- 
luigi
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 19.03.2012 um 00:29 schrieb Kip Warner:

> On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 16:25 -0700, Kip Warner wrote:
>> On Sat, 2012-03-17 at 11:21 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>> Am 17.03.2012 um 10:21 schrieb luigi scarso:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 2:47 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hey list,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is there any way to hint to ConTeXt that the contents of a \startitemize
>>>>> \stopitemize pair should try to be all on the same page?
>>>> plain old tex
>>>> \vbox{%
>>>> \startitemize
>>>> \stopitemize%
>>>> }
>>> 
>>> Better:
>>> 
>>> \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection]
>>> 
>>> \stopitemize
>>> 
>>> You can control the space before/after the linecorrection environment with the optional
>>> argument which accepts all values for \blank, e.g. \startlinecorrection[2*line].
>>> 
>>> Wolfgang
>> 
>> Hey Wolfgang,
>> 
>> The good news is that this is probably what I need. The bad news is
>> luatex completely blows itself to pieces, allocating memory until the
>> system crashes. 
>> 
>> After much grinding of the machine, I managed to finally SIGSTOP and
>> attach gdb to the naughty process.
>> 
>> I've cc'd the luatex user mailing list since this is probably, I
>> suppose, a luatex issue more than a ConTeXt one.
>> 
>> I am using luatex beta-0.71.0-2012030522 (rev 4364) through context
>> version 2012.03.13 21:26 on amd64 hardware running Ubuntu Maverick.
> 
> One other thing that I should have made more clear, this only happens
> when I insert the aforementioned line correction commands.


Make a example because this works:

\starttext

%\dorecurse{2}{\input tufte\par}
\dorecurse{3}{\input tufte\par}

\startitemize[before={\startlinecorrection[blank]},after=\stoplinecorrection]
\dorecurse{4}{\startitem \input ward \stopitem}
\stopitemize

\dorecurse{3}{\input tufte\par}

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Hans Hagen]

On 19-3-2012 00:29, Kip Warner wrote:

>> I've cc'd the luatex user mailing list since this is probably, I
>> suppose, a luatex issue more than a ConTeXt one.

not that probable

> One other thing that I should have made more clear, this only happens
> when I insert the aforementioned line correction commands.

test needed

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Hans Hagen]

On 19-3-2012 00:25, Kip Warner wrote:

> The good news is that this is probably what I need. The bad news is
> luatex completely blows itself to pieces, allocating memory until the
> system crashes.

Packaging itemizes are on a todo list as I sometimes need it myself, but 
it has a low priority

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Mon, 2012-03-19 at 22:50 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Packaging itemizes are on a todo list as I sometimes need it myself, but 
> it has a low priority

Ok, but I thought they were already "packaged" with context?

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Mon, 2012-03-19 at 22:49 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 19-3-2012 00:29, Kip Warner wrote:
> 
> >> I've cc'd the luatex user mailing list since this is probably, I
> >> suppose, a luatex issue more than a ConTeXt one.
> 
> not that probable

Actually highly probably, since the seg fault is raised in luatex and
not context. Even if context is feeding it malformed input, luatex
should not ever crash.

> test needed

On it. My book is a couple hundred pages long, so hopefully I will be
able to come up with one.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3341 bytes --]

On Mon, 2012-03-19 at 09:17 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Make a example because this works:
> 
> \starttext
> 
> %\dorecurse{2}{\input tufte\par}
> \dorecurse{3}{\input tufte\par}
> 
> \startitemize[before={\startlinecorrection[blank]},after=
> \stoplinecorrection]
> \dorecurse{4}{\startitem \input ward \stopitem}
> \stopitemize
> 
> \dorecurse{3}{\input tufte\par}
> 
> \stoptext 

I concur that your example works. Attached is an example of a minimal
that does not for me. ConTeXt does its thing, invoking luatex which
quickly gets nasty and starts spinning the clock - endlessly allocating
memory until a 4GB system is run into the ground.

This is what I see:

$ context minimal.tex 

resolvers       | resolving | loading configuration file
'selfautodir:/share/texmf/web2c/contextcnf.lua'
resolvers       | resolving | loading configuration file
'/usr/share/texmf/web2c/contextcnf.lua'
mtx-context     | run 1: luatex
--fmt="/home/kip/.texmf-var/luatex-cache/context/e570cb3e0e3ab0118ca08dd148bbec7d/formats/cont-en" --lua="/home/kip/.texmf-var/luatex-cache/context/e570cb3e0e3ab0118ca08dd148bbec7d/formats/cont-en.lui" --backend="pdf" "./minimal.tex" \stoptext
This is LuaTeX, Version beta-0.71.0-2012030522 (rev 4364) 
 \write18 enabled.

resolvers       > resolving > loading configuration file
'/usr/share/texmf/web2c/contextcnf.lua'
(minimal.tex

ConTeXt  ver: 2012.03.13 21:26 MKIV  fmt: 2012.3.14  int:
english/english

system          > cont-new.mkiv loaded
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/cont-new.mkiv
system          > beware: some patches loaded from cont-new.mkiv
)
system          > minimal.top loaded
(minimal.top)
fonts           > latin modern fonts are not preloaded
languages       > language en is active
{/usr/share/texmf/fonts/map/pdftex/context/mkiv-base.map}
fonts           > preloading latin modern fonts (second stage)
fonts           > typescripts > unknown: library 'loc'
{/usr/share/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map}{/usr/share/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-rm.map}
fonts           > defining > forced type afm of stmary10 not found
fonts           > defining > font with asked name 'stmary10' is not
found using lookup 'file'
fonts           > virtual math > loading font LMMath7-Regular subfont 9
with name stmary10.afm at 458752 is skipped, not found
fonts           > defining > forced type afm of stmary10 not found
fonts           > defining > font with asked name 'stmary10' is not
found using lookup 'file'
fonts           > virtual math > loading font LMMath9-Regular subfont 9
with name stmary10.afm at 589824 is skipped, not found
fonts           > defining > forced type afm of stmary10 not found
fonts           > defining > font with asked name 'stmary10' is not
found using lookup 'file'
fonts           > virtual math > loading font LMMath12-Regular subfont 9
with name stmary10.afm at 786432 is skipped, not found
fonts           > fallback modern rm 12pt is loaded

[***hangs at this point***]

I am using ConTeXt and LuaTeX packages off of Adam's PPA. These are
luatex version beta-0.71.0-2012030522 (rev 4364) under context version
2012.03.13 21:26 on amd64 hardware using Ubuntu Maverick.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

[-- Attachment #1.1.2: minimal.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 138 bytes --]

\starttext

    \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection][]
    \item foo
    \stopitemize

\stoptext


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Re: Itemize without page break

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 20.03.2012 um 02:04 schrieb Kip Warner:

> On Mon, 2012-03-19 at 09:17 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> Make a example because this works:
>> 
>> \starttext
>> 
>> %\dorecurse{2}{\input tufte\par}
>> \dorecurse{3}{\input tufte\par}
>> 
>> \startitemize[before={\startlinecorrection[blank]},after=
>> \stoplinecorrection]
>> \dorecurse{4}{\startitem \input ward \stopitem}
>> \stopitemize
>> 
>> \dorecurse{3}{\input tufte\par}
>> 
>> \stoptext 
> 
> I concur that your example works. Attached is an example of a minimal
> that does not for me. ConTeXt does its thing, invoking luatex which
> quickly gets nasty and starts spinning the clock - endlessly allocating
> memory until a 4GB system is run into the ground.


The problem is the empty second argument.

\startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection][]

When you pass two arguments with \startitemize the first argument os for keywords (e.g. packed or fit)
and second argument is for assignments (e.g. width=3cm) in your case context is looking for the keywords
“before=\startlinecorrection” and “after=\stoplinecorrection” which results in a loop.

Wolfgang
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1154 bytes --]

On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:22 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> The problem is the empty second argument.
> 
> \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection][]
> 
> When you pass two arguments with \startitemize the first argument os for keywords (e.g. packed or fit)
> and second argument is for assignments (e.g. width=3cm) in your case context is looking for the keywords
> “before=\startlinecorrection” and “after=\stoplinecorrection” which results in a loop.

Even if that were the case, that's a fragility that no program should
its users endure. It should probably have bailed with an error message
after seeing that the second argument was empty rather than taking down
the entire operating system with it.

But regardless, this does not seem to be the case. The following minimal
still blows up, even with an assignment in the second parameter.

\starttext

    \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=
\stoplinecorrection][start=11]
    \item foo
    \stopitemize

\stoptext

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Re: Itemize without page break

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 20.03.2012 um 06:31 schrieb Kip Warner:

> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:22 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> The problem is the empty second argument.
>> 
>> \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection][]
>> 
>> When you pass two arguments with \startitemize the first argument os for keywords (e.g. packed or fit)
>> and second argument is for assignments (e.g. width=3cm) in your case context is looking for the keywords
>> “before=\startlinecorrection” and “after=\stoplinecorrection” which results in a loop.
> 
> Even if that were the case, that's a fragility that no program should
> its users endure. It should probably have bailed with an error message
> after seeing that the second argument was empty rather than taking down
> the entire operating system with it.

TeX has it’s problem with certain errors, accept it.

> But regardless, this does not seem to be the case. The following minimal
> still blows up, even with an assignment in the second parameter.
> 
> \starttext
> 
>    \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=
> \stoplinecorrection][start=11]
>    \item foo
>    \stopitemize
> 
> \stoptext

You can’t have a assignment in both parameters because this would lead to the same problem as before,
combine both settings in one argument and it works.

Wolfgang
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 472 bytes --]

On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:46 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> TeX has it’s problem with certain errors, accept it.

It is not a problem with the program raising an error, it was how it
went about doing it. It should not have to take down the entire
operating system to indicate to the user that there was a non-intuitive
syntactical error in typesetting.

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http://www.thevertigo.com

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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Patrick Gundlach]

Am 20.03.2012 um 06:49 schrieb Kip Warner:

> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:46 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> TeX has it’s problem with certain errors, accept it.
> 
> It is not a problem with the program raising an error, it was how it
> went about doing it. It should not have to take down the entire
> operating system to indicate to the user that there was a non-intuitive
> syntactical error in typesetting.


I also agree that a segfault is not an acceptable behavior of a program, regardless of the input (unless you are doing low level stuff). But it is not clear if this is a problem on the ConTeXt side or the LuaTeX side.

Patrick

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Re: Itemize without page break

[Hans Hagen]

On 20-3-2012 01:43, Kip Warner wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-03-19 at 22:49 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 19-3-2012 00:29, Kip Warner wrote:
>>
>>>> I've cc'd the luatex user mailing list since this is probably, I
>>>> suppose, a luatex issue more than a ConTeXt one.
>>
>> not that probable
>
> Actually highly probably, since the seg fault is raised in luatex and
> not context. Even if context is feeding it malformed input, luatex
> should not ever crash.

it depends ... if some node list juggling happens in macros/lua code and 
something is done wrong there, one can run out of memory (for instance)

Hans

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Re: Itemize without page break

[Hans Hagen]

On 20-3-2012 06:49, Kip Warner wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:46 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> TeX has it’s problem with certain errors, accept it.
>
> It is not a problem with the program raising an error, it was how it
> went about doing it. It should not have to take down the entire
> operating system to indicate to the user that there was a non-intuitive
> syntactical error in typesetting.

tex is a macro language and that has benefits but also drawbacks; as 
soon as you end up in unwanted expansion things can get nasty; anyhow, I get

Runaway argument?
{before=\startlinecorrection ,after= \stoplinecorrection 
}]{\dodoubleemptyYESone \ETC.
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [token memory size=90996078].

which is not really a crash of my operating system; there is not much I 
can do about this issue I fear.

Hans


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Re: Itemize without page break

[luigi scarso]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 20-3-2012 06:49, Kip Warner wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:46 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>>
>>> TeX has it’s problem with certain errors, accept it.
>>
>>
>> It is not a problem with the program raising an error, it was how it
>> went about doing it. It should not have to take down the entire
>> operating system to indicate to the user that there was a non-intuitive
>> syntactical error in typesetting.
>
>
> tex is a macro language and that has benefits but also drawbacks; as soon as
> you end up in unwanted expansion things can get nasty; anyhow, I get
>
> Runaway argument?
> {before=\startlinecorrection ,after= \stoplinecorrection
> }]{\dodoubleemptyYESone \ETC.
> ! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [token memory size=90996078].
>
> which is not really a crash of my operating system; there is not much I can
> do about this issue I fear.
>
Even here
Runaway argument?
{before=\startlinecorrection ,after=\stoplinecorrection
}]{\dodoubleemptyYESone \ETC.
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [token memory size=188689465].

on Linux  32bit kernel (on a 64bit processor) -- is  the example on a
64bit kernel ?

-- 
luigi
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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Khaled Hosny]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 10:49:48PM -0700, Kip Warner wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:46 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> > TeX has it’s problem with certain errors, accept it.
> 
> It is not a problem with the program raising an error, it was how it
> went about doing it. It should not have to take down the entire
> operating system to indicate to the user that there was a non-intuitive
> syntactical error in typesetting.

Older TeX engines had hard memory limit, so in case of such
"syntactical" errors the engine would consume all its allocated memory
and die (with a misleading error message), LuaTeX dynamically allocates
memory (for good reasons) so it won't stop before consuming all your
available memory, its the responsibility of an operating system to
prevent such a faulty application from taking the whole system down.

Regards,
 Khaled
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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Khaled Hosny]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 08:21:35AM +0100, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> 
> Am 20.03.2012 um 06:49 schrieb Kip Warner:
> 
> > On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:46 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> >> TeX has it’s problem with certain errors, accept it.
> > 
> > It is not a problem with the program raising an error, it was how it
> > went about doing it. It should not have to take down the entire
> > operating system to indicate to the user that there was a non-intuitive
> > syntactical error in typesetting.
> 
> 
> I also agree that a segfault is not an acceptable behavior of a
> program, regardless of the input (unless you are doing low level
> stuff). But it is not clear if this is a problem on the ConTeXt side
> or the LuaTeX side.

It did not segfault, it just consumed all available memory :) A sane
operating system wouldn't allow any program to do this (mine is not
sane, I know, but luatex is hardly the only program that does this to
me).

Regards,
 Khaled
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 344 bytes --]

On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 09:17 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> which is not really a crash of my operating system; there is not much
> I 
> can do about this issue I fear. 

Totally up to you. I just wanted to bring it to your attention.

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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 714 bytes --]

On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 16:57 +0200, Khaled Hosny wrote:
> Older TeX engines had hard memory limit, so in case of such
> "syntactical" errors the engine would consume all its allocated memory
> and die (with a misleading error message), LuaTeX dynamically allocates
> memory (for good reasons) so it won't stop before consuming all your
> available memory, its the responsibility of an operating system to
> prevent such a faulty application from taking the whole system down.

I'd be very interested in seeing the operating system memory manager's
algorithm that could do such a remarkable thing.

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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Hans Hagen]

On 20-3-2012 19:59, Kip Warner wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 16:57 +0200, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>> Older TeX engines had hard memory limit, so in case of such
>> "syntactical" errors the engine would consume all its allocated memory
>> and die (with a misleading error message), LuaTeX dynamically allocates
>> memory (for good reasons) so it won't stop before consuming all your
>> available memory, its the responsibility of an operating system to
>> prevent such a faulty application from taking the whole system down.
>
> I'd be very interested in seeing the operating system memory manager's
> algorithm that could do such a remarkable thing.

well you can try what happens if you run stock lua:

local t = { }
while true do
     t[#t+1] = "just a bogus string: " .. (#t+1)
end

at some point your system will run out of (virtual) memory or lua will 
run out of whatever its limits are

Hans


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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 616 bytes --]

On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 20:26 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> well you can try what happens if you run stock lua:
> 
> local t = { }
> while true do
>      t[#t+1] = "just a bogus string: " .. (#t+1)
> end
> 
> at some point your system will run out of (virtual) memory or lua will 
> run out of whatever its limits are

Of course. And the same could be done in C, C++, or really any language
that supports dynamic memory allocation. We just hope that programs that
are built from them won't do that.

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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[luigi scarso]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 20:26 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> well you can try what happens if you run stock lua:
>>
>> local t = { }
>> while true do
>>      t[#t+1] = "just a bogus string: " .. (#t+1)
>> end
>>
>> at some point your system will run out of (virtual) memory or lua will
>> run out of whatever its limits are
>
> Of course. And the same could be done in C, C++, or really any language
> that supports dynamic memory allocation. We just hope that programs that
> are built from them won't do that.
When  TeX says
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [token memory size=<...>]
it is its graceful way to exit from  an irreversible situation.
It can be caused by luatex or ConTeXt mkiv
but it's *not* a segmentation fault, as you said early:
>Actually highly probably, since the seg fault is raised in luatex and
>not context. Even if context is feeding it malformed input, luatex
>should not ever crash.
Only luatex can do a segmentation fault -- of course due a tex macro
/lua function possibly called  from ConTeXt.
What happen for me (linux ubuntu 10lts 32bit)  and Hans (windows (7
professional 64bit ?) )  is a "TeX capacity exceeded," , not a seg.
fault, and sometime happen if one calls a macro in a wrong way.
So, do you have a segmentation fault or a TeX capacity exceeded on you
linux 64bit box ?

-- 
luigi
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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Hans Hagen]

On 20-3-2012 20:59, Kip Warner wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 20:26 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> well you can try what happens if you run stock lua:
>>
>> local t = { }
>> while true do
>>       t[#t+1] = "just a bogus string: " .. (#t+1)
>> end
>>
>> at some point your system will run out of (virtual) memory or lua will
>> run out of whatever its limits are
>
> Of course. And the same could be done in C, C++, or really any language
> that supports dynamic memory allocation. We just hope that programs that
> are built from them won't do that.

sure, but mu experience is that browsers of email clients are way more 
demanding than tex when it comes to memory usage

for tex it depends how much memory is permitted (there are some maxima 
that can be set in configuration files) ... i must say that I never run 
out of memory, although with doing extreme torture tests with many fonts 
one can come pretty close

Hans


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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:39 +0100, luigi scarso wrote:
> When  TeX says
> ! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [token memory size=<...>]
> it is its graceful way to exit from  an irreversible situation.
> It can be caused by luatex or ConTeXt mkiv
> but it's *not* a segmentation fault, as you said early:
> >Actually highly probably, since the seg fault is raised in luatex and
> >not context. Even if context is feeding it malformed input, luatex
> >should not ever crash.
> Only luatex can do a segmentation fault -- of course due a tex macro
> /lua function possibly called  from ConTeXt.
> What happen for me (linux ubuntu 10lts 32bit)  and Hans (windows (7
> professional 64bit ?) )  is a "TeX capacity exceeded," , not a seg.
> fault, and sometime happen if one calls a macro in a wrong way.
> So, do you have a segmentation fault or a TeX capacity exceeded on you
> linux 64bit box ?

As I said earlier, I get a segmentation fault if I leave it to run, but
I always have to kill it before it takes down the entire operating
system with it (apparently this is normal). I don't get the TeX capacity
exceeded error message, as you saw from my earlier console output.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
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http://www.thevertigo.com

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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:44 +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> sure, but mu experience is that browsers of email clients are way more 
> demanding than tex when it comes to memory usage

I've never had either take down the entire operating system. There is a
different from intended memory usage and unintended anyways. In this
case, we are talking about the latter.

> for tex it depends how much memory is permitted (there are some maxima 
> that can be set in configuration files) ... i must say that I never run 
> out of memory, although with doing extreme torture tests with many fonts 
> one can come pretty close

Well, you saw what happened with my sample minimal.

Anyways, if this is normal behaviour, that's fine, I just wanted to
bring it to the list's attention. That's all.

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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[luigi scarso]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:24 PM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:39 +0100, luigi scarso wrote:
>> When  TeX says
>> ! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [token memory size=<...>]
>> it is its graceful way to exit from  an irreversible situation.
>> It can be caused by luatex or ConTeXt mkiv
>> but it's *not* a segmentation fault, as you said early:
>> >Actually highly probably, since the seg fault is raised in luatex and
>> >not context. Even if context is feeding it malformed input, luatex
>> >should not ever crash.
>> Only luatex can do a segmentation fault -- of course due a tex macro
>> /lua function possibly called  from ConTeXt.
>> What happen for me (linux ubuntu 10lts 32bit)  and Hans (windows (7
>> professional 64bit ?) )  is a "TeX capacity exceeded," , not a seg.
>> fault, and sometime happen if one calls a macro in a wrong way.
>> So, do you have a segmentation fault or a TeX capacity exceeded on you
>> linux 64bit box ?
>
> As I said earlier, I get a segmentation fault if I leave it to run, but
> I always have to kill it before it takes down the entire operating
> system with it (apparently this is normal). I don't get the TeX capacity
> exceeded error message, as you saw from my earlier console output.
Ok, this is not normal and I suspect that it's linux 64bit issue --
can be bug of luatex then.
Can anyone confirm that on  linux 64bit the following
\starttext

    \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection][]
    \item foo
    \stopitemize
\stoptext
gives a segmentation fault ?
-- 
luigi
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:46 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> You can’t have a assignment in both parameters because this would lead
> to the same problem as before,
> combine both settings in one argument and it works. 

I must not be doing it right because the item numbers are gone now and
replaced with hyphens:

    \startitemize[R,2*broad,before=\startlinecorrection,after=
\stoplinecorrection,start=11]
    \setupitemize[left=(, right=)]
    \item foo.
    \item foo.
    \stopitemize

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Re: Itemize without page break

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Tue, 20 Mar 2012, Kip Warner wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 06:46 +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> You can’t have a assignment in both parameters because this would lead
>> to the same problem as before,
>> combine both settings in one argument and it works.
>
> I must not be doing it right because the item numbers are gone now and
> replaced with hyphens:
>
>    \startitemize[R,2*broad,before=\startlinecorrection,after=
> \stoplinecorrection,start=11]
>    \setupitemize[left=(, right=)]
>    \item foo.
>    \item foo.
>    \stopitemize

You are back to square one :)

You cannot mix options (R, 2*broad, anything without an = sign) with 
assignments (before=..., after=..., anything with an = sign). The format 
of \startitemize is

\startitemize[options][assignments]

or

\startitemize[options]

or

\startitemize[assignments]

Anything else will leave to undersirable behaviour (or segfaults :) ) As I 
had said in one of my earlier emails, this is the case for ALL context 
macros that take both options and assignments.

Aditya

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Re: [luatex] Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 22:41 +0100, luigi scarso wrote:
> > As I said earlier, I get a segmentation fault if I leave it to run, but
> > I always have to kill it before it takes down the entire operating
> > system with it (apparently this is normal). I don't get the TeX capacity
> > exceeded error message, as you saw from my earlier console output.
> Ok, this is not normal and I suspect that it's linux 64bit issue --
> can be bug of luatex then.
> Can anyone confirm that on  linux 64bit the following
> \starttext
> 
>     \startitemize[before=\startlinecorrection,after=\stoplinecorrection][]
>     \item foo
>     \stopitemize
> \stoptext
> gives a segmentation fault ?

What's probably happening is eventually the system runs out of memory,
the swap gets depleted as well, and as a last act of desperation, the
kernel finally denies an allocation request to luatex which is pretty
rare. The latter probably then dereferences the null pointer and then it
blows.

-- 
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OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 18:22 -0400, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> Anything else will leave to undersirable behaviour (or segfaults :) ) As I 
> had said in one of my earlier emails, this is the case for ALL context 
> macros that take both options and assignments.

Fair enough. I got it to work now with,

\startitemize[R,2*broad][start=11,before=\startlinecorrection,after=
\stoplinecorrection]

My only concern here is that, for something as incredibly fundamental
and recurring in the world of ConTeXt, the caveats and distinctions to
be made between options and assignments, that can and have taken down
entire operating systems, or cause hour after hour of no end of vague
syntactical errors, or even successful compilations with the wrong
effects, shouldn't that probably have been mentioned at least once, even
if only in passing, somewhere within the 369 page user manual? The word
"assignment" I couldn't locate once. 

I'm not sure if this is a concept inherited from TeX, but if it is, it's
probably not a good idea for the documentation and the user interface to
assume that ConTeXt users have a background with TeX or derived.

Thanks for the help,

-- 
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OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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Re: Itemize without page break

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 03:01, Kip Warner wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 18:22 -0400, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>> Anything else will leave to undersirable behaviour (or segfaults :) ) As I
>> had said in one of my earlier emails, this is the case for ALL context
>> macros that take both options and assignments.
>
> Fair enough. I got it to work now with,
>
> \startitemize[R,2*broad][start=11,before=\startlinecorrection,after=
> \stoplinecorrection]
>
> My only concern here is that, for something as incredibly fundamental
> and recurring in the world of ConTeXt, the caveats and distinctions to
> be made between options and assignments, that can and have taken down
> entire operating systems, or cause hour after hour of no end of vague
> syntactical errors, or even successful compilations with the wrong
> effects, shouldn't that probably have been mentioned at least once, even
> if only in passing, somewhere within the 369 page user manual? The word
> "assignment" I couldn't locate once.

- The fact that assignments and simple options have to be separated is
not a limitation of TeX, but the way how ConTeXt is programmed. Hans
uses a single command that takes all options inside brackets at once
that defines (results in) something similar to (syntax is not exact
and is probably completely different in MKIV) \@@itmstart -> 11,
\@@itmbefore -> \startlinecorrection, etc.

- Maybe it could be more explicit, but if you ever take a look at
documentation, for example
    http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupitemgroup
you will notice that some brackets are depicted with [...,...] and
others with [...,...=...,...]

- The fact that luatex crashes is simply a bug that should be fixed,
so if you didn't do it already, please add a ticket to the tracker. It
would help a lot if somebody could come up with plain LuaTeX example
that does approximately the same since it might happen that until the
bug gets fixed, Hans might reimplement some functionality and then
LuaTeX won't crash on the same input any more. Lots and lots of bugs
in LuaTeX have been fixed in past, but most of them happened on
regular/proper/allowed input. Not many people use wrong ConTeXt syntax
on regular basis to be able to spot such problems. I also bet that if
somebody else would start writing his own TeX format comparable to
ConTeXt, quite some new bugs might have surfaced that one would never
stumble upon during regular use.

Mojca
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Hans Hagen]

On 22-3-2012 11:38, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> - The fact that assignments and simple options have to be separated is
> not a limitation of TeX, but the way how ConTeXt is programmed. Hans
> uses a single command that takes all options inside brackets at once
> that defines (results in) something similar to (syntax is not exact
> and is probably completely different in MKIV) \@@itmstart ->  11,
> \@@itmbefore ->  \startlinecorrection, etc.

fyi:

In mkiv the principle is the same but it's a bit more more dynamic:

\<namespace><instance>:<key>

with namespace being efficiently shortcut deep down in context. The new 
fashion is then \<namespace>parameter{key} given that 
\current<namespace> == <instance> is set. This is the new commandhandler 
approach that we use in overhauled core code as well as in Wolfgangs and 
Adityas modules. The dynamic approach is somewhat slower but it's 
compensated by way less hash entries and other speedups in the overhaul.

Hans



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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Hans Hagen]

On 22-3-2012 11:38, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> - The fact that assignments and simple options have to be separated is
> not a limitation of TeX, but the way how ConTeXt is programmed. Hans
> uses a single command that takes all options inside brackets at once
> that defines (results in) something similar to (syntax is not exact
> and is probably completely different in MKIV) \@@itmstart ->  11,
> \@@itmbefore ->  \startlinecorrection, etc.

fyi:

In mkiv the principle is the same but it's a bit more more dynamic:

\<namespace><instance>:<key>

with namespace being efficiently shortcut deep down in context. The new 
fashion is then \<namespace>parameter{key} given that 
\current<namespace> == <instance> is set. This is the new commandhandler 
approach that we use in overhauled core code as well as in Wolfgangs and 
Adityas modules. The dynamic approach is somewhat slower but it's 
compensated by way less hash entries and other speedups in the overhaul.

Hans



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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2012-03-22 11:38, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 03:01, Kip Warner wrote:
> > On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 18:22 -0400, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> >> Anything else will leave to undersirable behaviour (or segfaults :) ) As I
> >> had said in one of my earlier emails, this is the case for ALL context
> >> macros that take both options and assignments.
> >
> > Fair enough. I got it to work now with,
> >
> > \startitemize[R,2*broad][start=11,before=\startlinecorrection,after=
> > \stoplinecorrection]
> >
> > My only concern here is that, for something as incredibly fundamental
> > and recurring in the world of ConTeXt, the caveats and distinctions to
> > be made between options and assignments, that can and have taken down
> > entire operating systems, or cause hour after hour of no end of vague
> > syntactical errors, or even successful compilations with the wrong
> > effects, shouldn't that probably have been mentioned at least once, even
> > if only in passing, somewhere within the 369 page user manual? The word
> > "assignment" I couldn't locate once.

You’re right, it can cause confusion to people migrating from
Latex where package options, afair, allows mixed key-value/list
syntax (like e.g. Lua does as well). Random example from the
KOMA-Script manual:

  \documentclass[BCOR=12mm,DIV=calc,twoside]{scrartcl}
                 ^^^^^^^^^          ^^^^^^^
                 assignment  …      switch

Therefore the difference to Context deserves mention at least
somewhere in
<http://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt>
which said migrators are most likely to consult first.

> - Maybe it could be more explicit, but if you ever take a look at
> documentation, for example
>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupitemgroup
> you will notice that some brackets are depicted with [...,...] and
> others with [...,...=...,...]

And while we are handing out reading assignments (pun intended)
here are two wiki links that provide background information:
<http://wiki.contextgarden.net/System_Macros/Comma_Separated_Lists>
<http://wiki.contextgarden.net/System_Macros/Key_Value_Assignments>
Perhaps it makes most sense to think of Comma Lists v. Assignment
Lists in terms of the two different argument parsers being used
to process them.

Regards
Philipp

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Re: Itemize without page break

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2012-03-22 12:21, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> Therefore the difference to Context deserves mention at least
> somewhere in
> <http://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt>
> which said migrators are most likely to consult first.

Fyi I just added a couple words to the article:
<http://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt#Optional_Arguments_and_Setups>
please expand as needed!

Regards
Philipp

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Re: Itemize without page break

[luigi scarso]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:

>What's probably happening is eventually the system runs out of memory,
>the swap gets depleted as well, and as a last act of desperation, the
>kernel finally denies an allocation request to luatex which is pretty
>rare. The latter probably then dereferences the null pointer and then it
>blows.
Yes, can be, but LuaTex has it's memory manager that  should manage
this situation
just to avoid segmentation faults. I will see if I'm able to setup a vm .

>
> I'm not sure if this is a concept inherited from TeX, but if it is, it's
> probably not a good idea for the documentation and the user interface to
> assume that ConTeXt users have a background with TeX or derived.
Hm, ConTeXt is rooted in TeX and plain TeX.
It helps a lot to know TeX (and eTeX and pdfTeX).


-- 
luigi
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Re: Itemize without page break

[luigi scarso]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:05 PM, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Kip Warner <kip@thevertigo.com> wrote:
>
>>What's probably happening is eventually the system runs out of memory,
>>the swap gets depleted as well, and as a last act of desperation, the
>>kernel finally denies an allocation request to luatex which is pretty
>>rare. The latter probably then dereferences the null pointer and then it
>>blows.
> Yes, can be, but LuaTex has it's memory manager that  should manage
> this situation
> just to avoid segmentation faults. I will see if I'm able to setup a vm .
On a qemu vm Suse 11.3
Linux linux 2.6.34-12-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2010-06-29 02:39:08 +0200
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
at runlevel 3
after 7minuts I have

Runaway argument?
{before=\startlinecorrection ,after=\stoplinecorrection
}]{\dodoubleemptyYESone \ETC.
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [token memory size=226427358].

The vm  was slow but usable, the max load factor was 2.3 . No
segmentation fault.

-- 
luigi
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 11:38 +0100, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> - Maybe it could be more explicit, but if you ever take a look at
> documentation

Sorry, but which documentation should one obviously be looking at? The
half a dozen PDFs, the several versions of the wiki, the mailing list,
one of the actual hard copy books, the source code? Bits and pieces are
scattered everywhere with little rhyme or reason at times.

> , for example
>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupitemgroup
> you will notice that some brackets are depicted with [...,...] and
> others with [...,...=...,...]

Yes, and where was the thinking behind that explained in the user
manual? It wasn't. Look for the word "assignment".

> - The fact that luatex crashes is simply a bug that should be fixed,
> so if you didn't do it already, please add a ticket to the tracker. 

I cc'd the minimal example to the luatex mailing list, but I won't have
time right now to get more details for them on their tracker.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 12:21 +0100, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> You’re right, it can cause confusion to people migrating from
> Latex where package options, afair, allows mixed key-value/list
> syntax (like e.g. Lua does as well). Random example from the
> KOMA-Script manual:
> 
>   \documentclass[BCOR=12mm,DIV=calc,twoside]{scrartcl}
>                  ^^^^^^^^^          ^^^^^^^
>                  assignment  …      switch

Thanks Philipp. I'm finding that one of the big weaknesses of ConTeXt is
similar to a common criticism of the first one listed on Git here:

https://steveko.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/10-things-i-hate-about-git/

It requires users to know too much about how ConTeXt actually works
internally (e.g. its information model). Maybe this is necessary. Maybe
it isn't. I'm fairly new to typesetting and never came from a background
of decades of experience with TeX. But it seems to me like any
programming language, and ConTeXt is a kind of one for document
engineering, should have users focusing on creating beautiful books and
not on the language's information and processing model. 

Just my two cents.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Itemize without page break

[Kip Warner]

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On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 12:58 +0100, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> Fyi I just added a couple words to the article:
> <http://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt#Optional_Arguments_and_Setups>
> please expand as needed!

Thank you.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________