* German hyphenation patterns
@ 2005-12-01 10:47 Thomas A. Schmitz
2005-12-02 15:42 ` Tobias Burnus
2005-12-05 11:28 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2005-12-01 10:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
All,
German orthography is a mess right now, we now have two sets of
rules, old and new. New hyphenation is ugly and rules are constantly
changing. I see that ConTeXt has lang-deo.pat, so I was hoping that
this would produce "old" patterns, but it doesn't seem to work:
\enableregime[utf]
\mainlanguage[deo]
\starttext
\showhyphens{gestorben}
\showhyphens{Bierdeckel}
\showhyphens{äußerst}
\stoptext
gives me:
Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 8--8
[] \*10ptrmtf* ge-stor-ben
Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 10--10
[] \*10ptrmtf* Bier-de-ckel
Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 12--12
[] \*10ptrmtf* ‰u-ˇerst
which is identical to \mainlanguage[de]. Patterns should be Bierdek-
kel and ‰us-serst. Am I missing something, how can I enable "old"
patterns?
Thanks
Thomas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: German hyphenation patterns
2005-12-01 10:47 German hyphenation patterns Thomas A. Schmitz
@ 2005-12-02 15:42 ` Tobias Burnus
2005-12-02 15:53 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
2005-12-05 11:28 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Tobias Burnus @ 2005-12-02 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi,
Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> German orthography is a mess right now, we now have two sets of rules,
> old and new. New hyphenation is ugly and rules are constantly
> changing. I see that ConTeXt has lang-deo.pat, so I was hoping that
> this would produce "old" patterns, but it doesn't seem to work
Should work(TM).
> \showhyphens{Bierdeckel}
I may completely missunderstand the .pat files, but I think they only
give rules where to hyphenate; thus with the current .pat system one can
never get ck -> k-k.
LaTeX's german.sty and also ConTeXt provide
"ck -> k-k
"ll -> ll-l
"ff ->ff-f
(as in Bierde"ckel, Ro"lladen or Schi"ffahrt).
> \showhyphens{äußerst}
> Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 12--12
> [] \*10ptrmtf* ‰u-ˇerst
Hmm, my Duden of 1996 writes in black "au|ßerst" (= new & established
spelling), which is in line what I remember.
But I see \showhyphens{äußerstenfalls} be wrongly hyphenated; according
to Duden it should be:
äu|ßersten|falls (new spelling: äu|ßers|ten|falls). TeX hyphenates here
(with deo = established spelling) between the s and the t.
Tobias
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: German hyphenation patterns
2005-12-02 15:42 ` Tobias Burnus
@ 2005-12-02 15:53 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
2005-12-02 16:33 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A.Schmitz @ 2005-12-02 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Dec 2, 2005, at 4:42 PM, Tobias Burnus wrote:
> LaTeX's german.sty and also ConTeXt provide
> "ck -> k-k
> "ll -> ll-l
> "ff ->ff-f
> (as in Bierde"ckel, Ro"lladen or Schi"ffahrt).
Thank you, that was it!
> Hmm, my Duden of 1996 writes in black "au|ßerst" (= new &
> established spelling), which is in line what I remember.
> But I see \showhyphens{äußerstenfalls} be wrongly hyphenated;
> according to Duden it should be:
> äu|ßersten|falls (new spelling: äu|ßers|ten|falls). TeX hyphenates
> here (with deo = established spelling) between the s and the t.
Yes, you're right again; I thought I remembered a rule that there
should be no hyphenation in front of ß. But hyphenation between s-t
is still there, and it shouldn't be in [deo]. Sorry we German-
language-users have to bother everybody else with the mess we created.
Thanks, and best
Thomas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: German hyphenation patterns
2005-12-02 15:53 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
@ 2005-12-02 16:33 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-12-02 16:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
Thomas A.Schmitz wrote:
>
> On Dec 2, 2005, at 4:42 PM, Tobias Burnus wrote:
>
>> LaTeX's german.sty and also ConTeXt provide
>> "ck -> k-k
>> "ll -> ll-l
>> "ff ->ff-f
>> (as in Bierde"ckel, Ro"lladen or Schi"ffahrt).
>
> Thank you, that was it!
>
>> Hmm, my Duden of 1996 writes in black "au|�erst" (= new &
>> established spelling), which is in line what I remember.
>> But I see \showhyphens{�u�erstenfalls} be wrongly hyphenated;
>> according to Duden it should be:
>> �u|�ersten|falls (new spelling: �u|�ers|ten|falls). TeX hyphenates
>> here (with deo = established spelling) between the s and the t.
>
>
> Yes, you're right again; I thought I remembered a rule that there
> should be no hyphenation in front of �. But hyphenation between s-t
> is still there, and it shouldn't be in [deo]. Sorry we German-
> language-users have to bother everybody else with the mess we created.
since context ships with adapted patterns (i.e. generic ones that can be
used in more than one encoding) we can add things, just figure it out
and let me know
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: German hyphenation patterns
2005-12-01 10:47 German hyphenation patterns Thomas A. Schmitz
2005-12-02 15:42 ` Tobias Burnus
@ 2005-12-05 11:28 ` Hans Hagen
2005-12-05 13:41 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-12-05 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> All,
>
> German orthography is a mess right now, we now have two sets of
> rules, old and new. New hyphenation is ugly and rules are constantly
> changing. I see that ConTeXt has lang-deo.pat, so I was hoping that
> this would produce "old" patterns, but it doesn't seem to work:
>
> \enableregime[utf]
> \mainlanguage[deo]
>
> \starttext
>
> \showhyphens{gestorben}
>
> \showhyphens{Bierdeckel}
>
> \showhyphens{�u�erst}
>
> \stoptext
>
> gives me:
>
> Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 8--8
> [] \*10ptrmtf* ge-stor-ben
>
> Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 10--10
> [] \*10ptrmtf* Bier-de-ckel
>
> Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 12--12
> [] \*10ptrmtf* �u-�erst
>
> which is identical to \mainlanguage[de]. Patterns should be Bierdek-
> kel and �us-serst. Am I missing something, how can I enable "old"
> patterns?
(I assume that you loaded the patterns, i.e. texexec --make --all)
hard to see; for ck to become k-k you need this active " mess:
\usetypescript[modern][ec]
\setupbodyfont[modern,11pt]
\mainlanguage[deo]
\hyphenation{Bier-de-ckel}
\starttext
\number\normallanguage
\hyphenatedword{gestorben}
\hyphenatedword{Bierdeckel}
\hyphenatedword{Bierde"ckel}
\stoptext
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: German hyphenation patterns
2005-12-05 11:28 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2005-12-05 13:41 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2005-12-05 13:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cool, works now! Thanks Hans!
On Dec 5, 2005, at 12:28 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> German orthography is a mess right now, we now have two sets of
>> rules, old and new. New hyphenation is ugly and rules are
>> constantly changing. I see that ConTeXt has lang-deo.pat, so I
>> was hoping that this would produce "old" patterns, but it doesn't
>> seem to work:
>>
>> \enableregime[utf]
>> \mainlanguage[deo]
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> \showhyphens{gestorben}
>>
>> \showhyphens{Bierdeckel}
>>
>> \showhyphens{�u�erst}
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> gives me:
>>
>> Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 8--8
>> [] \*10ptrmtf* ge-stor-ben
>>
>> Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 10--10
>> [] \*10ptrmtf* Bier-de-ckel
>>
>> Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 12--12
>> [] \*10ptrmtf* �u-�erst
>>
>> which is identical to \mainlanguage[de]. Patterns should be
>> Bierdek- kel and �us-serst. Am I missing something, how can I
>> enable "old" patterns?
>
> (I assume that you loaded the patterns, i.e. texexec --make --all)
>
> hard to see; for ck to become k-k you need this active " mess:
>
> \usetypescript[modern][ec]
> \setupbodyfont[modern,11pt]
>
> \mainlanguage[deo]
>
> \hyphenation{Bier-de-ckel}
>
> \starttext
>
> \number\normallanguage
>
> \hyphenatedword{gestorben}
>
> \hyphenatedword{Bierdeckel}
>
> \hyphenatedword{Bierde"ckel}
>
> \stoptext
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: german hyphenation patterns
2003-11-21 23:32 german " Patrick Gundlach
2003-11-22 0:00 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2003-11-30 0:47 ` Patrick Gundlach
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Gundlach @ 2003-11-30 0:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
Patrick Gundlach <pg@levana.de> writes:
> How can I activate german hyphenation patterns? I have used
> \mainlanguage[de] in my document and it was OK some time ago.
> Meanwhile I have updated ConTeXt and my TeX (current texlive).
Somehow the format file did not load any hyphenation patterns besides
english. I cannot reproduce the problem any more. I wonder how this
could have happened...
from the cont-en.log:
[...]
language : patterns en for en loaded (n=2)
(/opt/texlive/8/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex)
language : no hyphenations en for en (n=2)
language : no patterns uk for uk (n=3)
language : no hyphenations uk for uk (n=3)
language : no patterns de for de (n=4)
language : no hyphenations de for de (n=4)
language : no patterns fr for fr (n=5)
[...]
regenerating the format solves the problem.
Patrick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: german hyphenation patterns
2003-11-23 13:33 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
@ 2003-11-25 8:53 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2003-11-25 8:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
At 14:33 23/11/2003, you wrote:
>Hmm, bizarre--I get the same output you do ("language : language en
>is active <protectionstate 0>"), nevertheless, hyphenation patterns seem
>to be correct, as far as I can see. But your comment made me realize that
>ConTeXt seems to be using the new German orthography exclusively. Is there
>a way to make it use "dehypht.tex" instead of "dehyphn.tex"?
how do you generate the format? is there a difference between
texexec --make (uses fmtutil)
and
texexec --make --alone
or maybe
texexec --make --alone --all (all patterns)
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: german hyphenation patterns
2003-11-22 0:00 ` Hans Hagen
2003-11-22 0:17 ` Patrick Gundlach
@ 2003-11-23 13:33 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
2003-11-25 8:53 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A.Schmitz @ 2003-11-23 13:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hmm, bizarre--I get the same output you do ("language : language
en is active <protectionstate 0>"), nevertheless, hyphenation patterns
seem to be correct, as far as I can see. But your comment made me
realize that ConTeXt seems to be using the new German orthography
exclusively. Is there a way to make it use "dehypht.tex" instead of
"dehyphn.tex"?
Best
Thomas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: german hyphenation patterns
2003-11-22 0:00 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2003-11-22 0:17 ` Patrick Gundlach
2003-11-23 13:33 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Gundlach @ 2003-11-22 0:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:
> --language={en,de}
I tried this one but no different results. I guess I should come up
with a minimal example.
> i wonder why those patterns are not loaded, (do you use cont-en ?)
good question. This is the head of the output:
ConTeXt ver: 2003.9.26 fmt: 2003.10.1 int: english mes: english
int: english means cont-en???
I'll post a minimal example and do some more experiments on sunday.
Patrick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: german hyphenation patterns
2003-11-21 23:32 german " Patrick Gundlach
@ 2003-11-22 0:00 ` Hans Hagen
2003-11-22 0:17 ` Patrick Gundlach
2003-11-23 13:33 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
2003-11-30 0:47 ` Patrick Gundlach
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2003-11-22 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
At 00:32 22/11/2003, you wrote:
>Hi out there,
>
>I'am not sure if this is a ConTeXt problem (I doubt it slightly) but
>I am a bit confused:
>
>How can I activate german hyphenation patterns? I have used
>\mainlanguage[de] in my document and it was OK some time ago.
>Meanwhile I have updated ConTeXt and my TeX (current texlive).
>
>Where should I start to check?
>
>The output of my context run is:
>
>
>[...]
>
>language : language en is active
>
>[...]
>
>bodyfont : 12pt rm is loaded
>language : patterns 2:2-en-2 loaded
>specials : fdf,tpd loaded
--language={en,de}
or just
--all
i wonder why those patterns are not loaded, (do you use cont-en ?)
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* german hyphenation patterns
@ 2003-11-21 23:32 Patrick Gundlach
2003-11-22 0:00 ` Hans Hagen
2003-11-30 0:47 ` Patrick Gundlach
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Gundlach @ 2003-11-21 23:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi out there,
I'am not sure if this is a ConTeXt problem (I doubt it slightly) but
I am a bit confused:
How can I activate german hyphenation patterns? I have used
\mainlanguage[de] in my document and it was OK some time ago.
Meanwhile I have updated ConTeXt and my TeX (current texlive).
Where should I start to check?
The output of my context run is:
[...]
language : language en is active
[...]
bodyfont : 12pt rm is loaded
language : patterns 2:2-en-2 loaded
specials : fdf,tpd loaded
Patrick
--
You are your own rainbow!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
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2005-12-01 10:47 German hyphenation patterns Thomas A. Schmitz
2005-12-02 15:42 ` Tobias Burnus
2005-12-02 15:53 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
2005-12-02 16:33 ` Hans Hagen
2005-12-05 11:28 ` Hans Hagen
2005-12-05 13:41 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
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2003-11-21 23:32 german " Patrick Gundlach
2003-11-22 0:00 ` Hans Hagen
2003-11-22 0:17 ` Patrick Gundlach
2003-11-23 13:33 ` Thomas A.Schmitz
2003-11-25 8:53 ` Hans Hagen
2003-11-30 0:47 ` Patrick Gundlach
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