\vec{} arrow length?

\vec{} arrow length?

[Alan Braslau]

Why is the \vec{} arrow too short in some cases?
Compare $\vec{X}$ to $\vec{Y}$.

The MWE below looks wrong in the default font
and is even uglier when pagella is used.

Alan


%\setupbodyfont [pagella]

\starttext
$\vec{X}$ vs. $\vec{Y}$
\stoptext
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Re: \vec{} arrow length?

[Hans Hagen]

On 12/27/2017 7:01 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:
> Why is the \vec{} arrow too short in some cases?
> Compare $\vec{X}$ to $\vec{Y}$.
> 
> The MWE below looks wrong in the default font
> and is even uglier when pagella is used.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> %\setupbodyfont [pagella]
> 
> \starttext
> $\vec{X}$ vs. $\vec{Y}$
> \stoptext
As this is has been the logic in tex font design for more than 3 
decades, there's not much that we can do about it apart from patching 
the font (doable but somewhat nasty and boring as we then need to patch 
specific elements of (each) hvariant and it falls in the category "hard 
to motivate myself for").

\showglyphs

\starttext
     \start
         \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
     \stop
     \blank
     \start
         \switchtobodyfont [pagella]
         \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
     \stop
     \blank
     \start
         \switchtobodyfont [cambria]
         \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
     \stop
\stoptext

Shows that it's a font design issue: the extensible has a threshold 
related to the middle part and it should (1) have at least one more 
fixed size, or (2) have one fixed size and for the rest be extensible 
but that would be somewhat inefficient ion most cases, so (3) here we 
have a trade-off.

Just blame the font ... cambria is (of course) ok.

Hans


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Re: \vec{} arrow length?

[Alan Braslau]

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:44:50 +0100
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> On 12/27/2017 7:01 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:
> > Why is the \vec{} arrow too short in some cases?
> > Compare $\vec{X}$ to $\vec{Y}$.
> > 
> > The MWE below looks wrong in the default font
> > and is even uglier when pagella is used.
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> > %\setupbodyfont [pagella]
> > 
> > \starttext
> > $\vec{X}$ vs. $\vec{Y}$
> > \stoptext
> As this is has been the logic in tex font design for more than 3 
> decades, there's not much that we can do about it apart from patching 
> the font (doable but somewhat nasty and boring as we then need to
> patch specific elements of (each) hvariant and it falls in the
> category "hard to motivate myself for").
> 
> \showglyphs
> 
> \starttext
>      \start
>          \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
>      \stop
>      \blank
>      \start
>          \switchtobodyfont [pagella]
>          \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
>      \stop
>      \blank
>      \start
>          \switchtobodyfont [cambria]
>          \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
>      \stop
> \stoptext
> 
> Shows that it's a font design issue: the extensible has a threshold 
> related to the middle part and it should (1) have at least one more 
> fixed size, or (2) have one fixed size and for the rest be extensible 
> but that would be somewhat inefficient ion most cases, so (3) here we 
> have a trade-off.
> 
> Just blame the font ... cambria is (of course) ok.
> 
> Hans

Even Computer Modern!

Do you mean to tell me that the TeX Gyre fonts are all "broken"?
And that the *only* correctly working font is ... Cambria?

So following up on the font discussion at the last ConTeXt meeting,
must we conclude that *all* of the fonts that we distribute with the
Standalone are to be avoided, and that one must pilfer the MicroSoft
font in order to typeset mathematics correctly?

Alan
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Re: \vec{} arrow length?

[Henri]

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On Wed, 2017-12-27 at 15:44 -0700, Alan Braslau wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:44:50 +0100
> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On 12/27/2017 7:01 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:
> > > 
> > > Why is the \vec{} arrow too short in some cases?
> > > Compare $\vec{X}$ to $\vec{Y}$.
> > > 
> > > The MWE below looks wrong in the default font
> > > and is even uglier when pagella is used.
> > > 
> > > Alan
> > > 
> > > 
> > > %\setupbodyfont [pagella]
> > > 
> > > \starttext
> > > $\vec{X}$ vs. $\vec{Y}$
> > > \stoptext
> > As this is has been the logic in tex font design for more than 3 
> > decades, there's not much that we can do about it apart from patching 
> > the font (doable but somewhat nasty and boring as we then need to
> > patch specific elements of (each) hvariant and it falls in the
> > category "hard to motivate myself for").
> > 
> > \showglyphs
> > 
> > \starttext
> >      \start
> >          \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
> >      \stop
> >      \blank
> >      \start
> >          \switchtobodyfont [pagella]
> >          \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
> >      \stop
> >      \blank
> >      \start
> >          \switchtobodyfont [cambria]
> >          \dorecurse{50}{$\vec{\blackrule[width=#1pt]}$\space}\unskip\par
> >      \stop
> > \stoptext
> > 
> > Shows that it's a font design issue: the extensible has a threshold 
> > related to the middle part and it should (1) have at least one more 
> > fixed size, or (2) have one fixed size and for the rest be extensible 
> > but that would be somewhat inefficient ion most cases, so (3) here we 
> > have a trade-off.
> > 
> > Just blame the font ... cambria is (of course) ok.
> > 
> > Hans
> Even Computer Modern!
> 
> Do you mean to tell me that the TeX Gyre fonts are all "broken"?
> And that the *only* correctly working font is ... Cambria?
> 
> So following up on the font discussion at the last ConTeXt meeting,
> must we conclude that *all* of the fonts that we distribute with the
> Standalone are to be avoided, and that one must pilfer the MicroSoft
> font in order to typeset mathematics correctly?

Lucida OpenType looks okay (if you have it).

\setupbodyfont[lucidaot]
\starttext
$\vec{X}$ vs. $\vec{Y}$
\stoptext

> 
> Alan
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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