From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from cgl.ntg.nl (Cgl.ntg.nl [5.39.185.202]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6C3229CF for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:15:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cgl.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8241D480F76 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:14:49 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at cgl.ntg.nl Authentication-Results: cgl.ntg.nl (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=labonneheure.ch Received: from cgl.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (cgl.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BJBeDgo-ovnL for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:14:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from cgl.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cgl.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D1E483B6B for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:13:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cgl.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F205480F68 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:12:33 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at cgl.ntg.nl Received: from cgl.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (cgl.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aWUhB-RA8XDY for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:12:32 +0100 (CET) Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=45.13.66.34; helo=outbound00.knthost.com; envelope-from=emanuel@labonneheure.ch; receiver= Received: from outbound00.knthost.com (outbound00.knthost.com [45.13.66.34]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by cgl.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D86FC480F5F for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:12:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:12:23 +0100 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 outbound00.knthost.com 8589128997 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labonneheure.ch; s=default; t=1710400347; bh=MnHcpU5SfnVY6EHkM61M6th9eNmOPJPW1/TDa4Rl10A=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject; b=lVMqY+tqwmc1KmVh+UVCIqQjzkCwCUasYjtE9KvU5pItYlx6Il4FB+eqOxp9tq3mC b97z0Vc2Qw5FKJI3MgDI+BXPFOBZHhvvFhAOTZuHNYlaPwBeHe3wa3TtnqEDa0uGD4 5LCCqLar1fyW1sjDU6FZ68xRMv7AAOE9gZsVCZtwevzkK6HBRn6DyM8jysQVK2JqIJ 5mx+YlUXjc1DUwNFBABQwtp8tWy7Lb70MfnPtEc6d9K8ZSVTc7Nm2XinQvHl/rVG/J 9E9PhpW+Fy6gR3kfaWjDnfFvzdBVm6YjX5EBRQChzzh0T+SOTL3pttz/hwN1waOnIl wOxUptNUfwNyg== To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Message-ID: <15F93AA1-36F7-4897-BC44-09007AFC45D2@getmailspring.com> In-Reply-To: <0EF874D1-7CDD-4E1D-93BB-779BF06D57F2@gmail.com> References: <0EF874D1-7CDD-4E1D-93BB-779BF06D57F2@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Mailspring MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID-Hash: TWOWPKKQKF7BL7QTD2VPR6VGQRLKNXFE X-Message-ID-Hash: TWOWPKKQKF7BL7QTD2VPR6VGQRLKNXFE X-MailFrom: emanuel@labonneheure.ch X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Subject: [NTG-context] Re: Japanese List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: Emanuel Han via ntg-context Cc: Emanuel Han Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7147461234735024577==" --===============7147461234735024577== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="65f2a357_19495cff_e0f5" --65f2a357_19495cff_e0f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Otared, when you read the lua code in the first =5Cdirectlua=7B=7D, you should re= alize that the dimensions of almost all layout elements are depending on = the value of my lua variable =22paperSize=22. Thanks to defining the paper size first in lua, I can apply calculations = of numeric values. The value of paperSize is later passed on to =5Csetuppapersize via =5Cset= uppapersize=5B=5Cdirectlua=7Btex.print(paperSize)=7D=5D Emanuel On M=C3=A4rz 13 2024, at 3:55 pm, Otared Kavian wrot= e: > Hi Emmanuel, > > Thank you so much for the new setup for writing Japanese: I tested with= both files, and noticed that with the new version the output looks great= . > I have a question about the code in the =5Cdirectlua=7B=7D part of your= setup: why, for instance, the > paperSize =3D =C2=AB B5=22 > is defined =C2=AB by hand =C2=BB there, instead of being retrieved from= the command > =5Csetuppapersize=5BB5=5D > issued by the user=3F > > Actually I am using your setup for learning Japanese, and at my beginne= r=E2=80=99s level I do separate words I am learning with spaces. While wi= th the previous version of your setup the lines were breaking womewhat st= rangely, but now the spaces between words in the output are as I intended= them to be (I should also Thank Wolfgang Schuster for his insight with t= he =5Cscript=5Bnihongo=5D, and indeed Hans for fixing so quickly the slig= htest bug). > It is really a great pleasure to be in this community where help comes = from everyone and features are given on demand =21 > Best regards: Otared > > On 10 Mar 2024, at 17:43, Emanuel Han via ntg-context wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I added https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Chinese=5FJapanese=5Fand=5FKor= ean=23Meeting=5Fthe=5FJIS=5FX=5F4051=5FRequirements=5Ffor=5FJapanese=5FTe= xt=5FLayout > > with attached working example code and to-do list. > > > > Thanks for any contributions=21 > > > > The working example code is still a work in progress. Its text layout= output meets already some of the requirements (see comments in the code)= . Among the ones to still be implemented are: > > > > =E2=80=A2 solid setting (no extra spacing between characters) https:/= /www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig1=5F8 if no requirement for line-adjustment ht= tps://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23term.line-adjustment > > =E2=80=A2 aligning of the lines to the Kihon-hanmen (optimizing the c= ode below in this regard) > > =E2=80=A2 positioning and realm of headings https://www.w3.org/TR/jlr= eq/=23fig3=5F1=5F9 https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig3=5F1=5F15 et al, an= d https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig3=5F1=5F4 > > =E2=80=A2 positioning of yokugo-ruby https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23f= ig2=5F3=5F24 > > =E2=80=A2 inline cutting note (warichu) https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23= fig2=5F4=5F1 > > =E2=80=A2 emphasis with sesame dot or bullet > > =E2=80=A2 itemization https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F5=5F6 > > =E2=80=A2 indenting of quotation paragraphs https://www.w3.org/TR/jlr= eq/=23fig2=5F5=5F7 > > =E2=80=A2 tab setting https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F6=5F1 > > =E2=80=A2 furiwake https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F7=5F2 > > =E2=80=A2 jidori https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F7=5F4 > > =E2=80=A2 math https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F7=5F6 and https:= //www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F7=5F62 > > =E2=80=A2 tategaki (writing vertically) > > Best regards > > > > Emanuel > > On M=C3=A4rz 2 2024, at 7:00 pm, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > > Emanuel Han schrieb am 01.03.2024 um 16:23: > > > > Dear Wolfgang, > > > > thank you for your valuable remarks. I integrated them, see corrected= attached example. > > > > Yes, correct layout examples exist. They're all showing vertical writ= ing, but the rules and principles are exactly the same for horizontal wri= ting. > > > > =E2=80=A2 position of the headers and footers: https://www.w3.org/TR/= jlreq/=23fig1=5F30 > > > > See my attached gongitsune.tex example how you can squeeze text in a = very narrow header/footer. > > > > =E2=80=A2 aligning lines to the text box: https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq= /=23fig1=5F3 > > > > You can use the lines key for =5Csetuplayout to let ConTeXt calculate= the necessary value for the text height. > > > > =E2=80=A2 protrusion of ruby: https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig=5Fad= 1=5F6 > > > > You're getting this for free because ruby text doesn't take up vertic= al space, in case vertical text is working it would now stick into the ma= rgins as expected. > > > > =5Cstarttext > > =5Cruledhbox=7Ba =5Cruby=7Bx=7D=7By=7D b=7D > > =5Cstoptext > > > > > > > > In my previous mail, I wrote wrong amounts of lines. They should be 4= 6 lines on one page, while the actual example doesn't show the 46th line.= > > > > It would be important to identify the reason why only 24 characters a= re used to create a line when 25 could be used. Then we can develop a met= hod to turn that mechanism off or circumvent it. > > Quotation from https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq: > > In principle, when composing a line with ideographic (cl-19), hiragan= a (cl-15) and katakana (cl-16) characters, no extra spacing appears betwe= en their character frame. This is called solid setting (see =46igure 5). > > > > 1. ConTeXt has a mechanism to typeset Japanese texts. > > > > 2. There are flaws in the output it produces but this nothing which c= an't be fixed. > > > > 3. To fix the problems someone has to be passionate to fix them and w= e're willing to help here. > > > > As you can see in my second example file japanese.tex there is a font= feature to create half sized parentheses etc. which isn't supported yet = by ConTeXt's mechanism for japanese and in case your willing to improve i= t this should be taken care of as well. > > > > Wolfgang > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entr= y to the Wiki=21 > > > > maillist : ntg-context=40ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lis= ts/ntg-context.ntg.nl > > webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mir= ror) > > archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context > > wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > Otared Kavian > e-mail: otared=40gmail.com > Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95 > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry = to the Wiki=21 > > maillist : ntg-context=40ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists= /ntg-context.ntg.nl > webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirro= r) > archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context > wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > --65f2a357_19495cff_e0f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Dear Otared,

when you read the lua code in the first = =5Cdirectlua=7B=7D, you should realize that the dimensions of almost all = layout elements are depending on the value of my lua variable =22paperSiz= e=22.
Thanks to defining the paper size first in lua, I can ap= ply calculations of numeric values.

The value of paperSize= is later passed on to =5Csetuppapersize via =5Csetuppapersize=5B=5Cdirec= tlua=7Btex.print(paperSize)=7D=5D

Emanuel
On M=C3=A4rz 13 2024, at 3:55 pm, Otare= d Kavian <otared=40gmail.com> wrote:
Hi = Emmanuel,

Thank you so much for the new setup for writing J= apanese: I tested with both files, and noticed that with the new version = the output looks great.

I have a question about the code in= the =5Cdirectlua=7B=7D part of your setup: why, for instance, the
<= div>paperSize =3D =C2=AB B5=22
is defined =C2=AB by hand =C2=BB= there, instead of being retrieved from the command
=5Csetuppap= ersize=5BB5=5D
issued by the user=3F

Actually I a= m using your setup for learning Japanese, and at my beginner=E2=80=99s le= vel I do separate words I am learning with spaces. While with the previou= s version of your setup the lines were breaking womewhat strangely, but n= ow the spaces between words in the output are as I intended them to be (I= should also Thank Wolfgang Schuster for his insight with the =5Cscript=5B= nihongo=5D, and indeed Hans for fixing so quickly the slightest bug).
It is really a great pleasure to be in this community where he= lp comes from everyone and features are given on demand =21

Best regards: Otared

> On 10 Mar 2024, at 17:43, Emanue= l Han via ntg-context <ntg-context=40ntg.nl> wrote:
><= /div>
> Hi all,
>
> I added https://wiki= .contextgarden.net/Chinese=5FJapanese=5Fand=5FKorean=23Meeting=5Fthe=5FJI= S=5FX=5F4051=5FRequirements=5Ffor=5FJapanese=5FText=5FLayout
&g= t; with attached working example code and to-do list.
>
> Thanks for any contributions=21
>
> = The working example code is still a work in progress. Its text layout out= put meets already some of the requirements (see comments in the code). Am= ong the ones to still be implemented are:
>
> =E2= =80=A2 solid setting (no extra spacing between characters) https://www.w3= .org/TR/jlreq/=23fig1=5F8 if no requirement for line-adjustment https://w= ww.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23term.line-adjustment
> =E2=80=A2 align= ing of the lines to the Kihon-hanmen (optimizing the code below in this r= egard)
> =E2=80=A2 positioning and realm of headings https:/= /www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig3=5F1=5F9 https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig3=5F= 1=5F15 et al, and https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig3=5F1=5F4
&= gt; =E2=80=A2 positioning of yokugo-ruby https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23f= ig2=5F3=5F24
> =E2=80=A2 inline cutting note (warichu) https= ://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F4=5F1
> =E2=80=A2 emphasis = with sesame dot or bullet
> =E2=80=A2 itemization https://ww= w.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F5=5F6
> =E2=80=A2 indenting of q= uotation paragraphs https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F5=5F7
> =E2=80=A2 tab setting https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F6=5F1
> =E2=80=A2 furiwake https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F7=5F= 2
> =E2=80=A2 jidori https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F7= =5F4
> =E2=80=A2 math https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F= 7=5F6 and https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig2=5F7=5F62
> =E2= =80=A2 tategaki (writing vertically)
> Best regards
>
> Emanuel
> On M=C3=A4rz 2 2024, at 7:00= pm, Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster.lists=40gmail.com> wrote:=
> Emanuel Han schrieb am 01.03.2024 um 16:23:
>= ;
> Dear Wolfgang,
>
> thank you f= or your valuable remarks. I integrated them, see corrected attached examp= le.
>
> Yes, correct layout examples exist. The= y're all showing vertical writing, but the rules and principles are exact= ly the same for horizontal writing.
>
> =E2=80=A2= position of the headers and footers: https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig1= =5F30
>
> See my attached gongitsune.tex exampl= e how you can squeeze text in a very narrow header/footer.
>=
> =E2=80=A2 aligning lines to the text box: https://www.w3.= org/TR/jlreq/=23fig1=5F3
>
> You can use the li= nes key for =5Csetuplayout to let ConTeXt calculate the necessary value f= or the text height.
>
> =E2=80=A2 protrusion of= ruby: https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/=23fig=5Fad1=5F6
>
<= div>> You're getting this for free because ruby text doesn't take up v= ertical space, in case vertical text is working it would now stick into t= he margins as expected.
>
> =5Cstarttext
<= div>> =5Cruledhbox=7Ba =5Cruby=7Bx=7D=7By=7D b=7D
> =5Cst= optext
>
>
>
> In my = previous mail, I wrote wrong amounts of lines. They should be 46 lines on= one page, while the actual example doesn't show the 46th line.
>
> It would be important to identify the reason why onl= y 24 characters are used to create a line when 25 could be used. Then we = can develop a method to turn that mechanism off or circumvent it.
> Quotation from https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq:
> In pri= nciple, when composing a line with ideographic (cl-19), hiragana (cl-15) = and katakana (cl-16) characters, no extra spacing appears between their c= haracter frame. This is called solid setting (see =46igure 5).
= >
> 1. ConTeXt has a mechanism to typeset Japanese texts.=
>
> 2. There are flaws in the output it produc= es but this nothing which can't be fixed.
>
> 3= . To fix the problems someone has to be passionate to fix them and we're = willing to help here.
>
> As you can see in my = second example file japanese.tex there is a font feature to create half s= ized parentheses etc. which isn't supported yet by ConTeXt's mechanism fo= r japanese and in case your willing to improve it this should be taken ca= re of as well.
>
> Wolfgang
> <= japanese=5Fmwe.tex>=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> If your q= uestion is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki= =21
>
> maillist : ntg-context=40ntg.nl / https= ://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpag= e : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
=
> archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
&g= t; wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F

Otared Kavian
e-mail: otared=40gmail.com
Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95




=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F
If your question is of interest to others as well, pl= ease add an entry to the Wiki=21

maillist : ntg-context=40n= tg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
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