CJK support in ConTeXt

CJK support in ConTeXt

[Jin-Hwan Cho]

It's time to discuss the topic "CJK support in ConTeXt" in a more public
place.

The current version of ConTeXt supports Chinese only. But the same mechasism
enables Korean too. The remaining language is Japanese. In some sense, it is
possible to support Japanese in the current subfont mechanism. But several
issues (e.g. Japanese kerning system as explained by Okumura) may occur.

So, alternative way is to use ASCII pTeX for Japanese. Basically looks no
problem
but I worry eTeX extension features. Is it possible to run ConTeXt without
eTeX
extension features, Hans?

My suggestion for supporting CJK characters in ConTeXt is to write a new
module
using e-Omega. Even though e-Omega does not produce PDF format directly,
there are not much problem with DVIPDFMx.

Best, ChoF.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~     ***
| Cho, Jin-Hwan == ChoF |     ^ ^
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~      o
| Research Fellow       |     ~~~
| School of Mathematics ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Korea Institute for Advanced Study |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| chofchof@ktug.or.kr                |
| http://free.kaist.ac.kr/ChoF/      |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: CJK support in ConTeXt

[Hans Hagen]

Hi Chof,

So, alternative way is to use ASCII pTeX for Japanese. Basically looks no
>problem
>but I worry eTeX extension features. Is it possible to run ConTeXt without
>eTeX
>extension features, Hans?

in principle yes, but you loose xml handling and a few other things.

>My suggestion for supporting CJK characters in ConTeXt is to write a new
>module
>using e-Omega. Even though e-Omega does not produce PDF format directly,
>there are not much problem with DVIPDFMx.

sounds ok to me

Hans



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Re: Re: CJK support in ConTeXt

[Idris S Hamid]

Hans Hagen wrote:

> Hi Chof,
>
> So, alternative way is to use ASCII pTeX for Japanese. Basically looks no
> >problem
> >but I worry eTeX extension features. Is it possible to run ConTeXt without
> >eTeX
> >extension features, Hans?
>
> in principle yes, but you loose xml handling and a few other things.

And you never know where those "few other things" are going to pop up, as I
painfully learned before eOmega came along. eTeX's use in ConTeXt is by no
means restricted to esoteric areas...

Best
Idris

Re: CJK support in ConTeXt

[Hong Feng]

> It's time to discuss the topic "CJK support in ConTeXt" in a more public
> place.

I can support this idea!  I can build a mailing list with
GNU Mailman on my upcoming server.

Rgds,
Hong

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Re: Re: CJK support in ConTeXt

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Wednesday, August 27, 2003 Hong Feng wrote:

>> It's time to discuss the topic "CJK support in ConTeXt" in a more public
>> place.

HF> I can support this idea!  I can build a mailing list with
HF> GNU Mailman on my upcoming server.

Isn't this a good enough place?

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Re: CJK support in ConTeXt

[Idris S Hamid]

Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

> Wednesday, August 27, 2003 Hong Feng wrote:
>
> >> It's time to discuss the topic "CJK support in ConTeXt" in a more public
> >> place.
>
> HF> I can support this idea!  I can build a mailing list with
> HF> GNU Mailman on my upcoming server.
>
> Isn't this a good enough place?

Since

1. the aleph list is going to be low-traffic;
2. eomega (soon-to-be-Aleph) is geared towards multidirectional/ TeX (CJK,
Arabic, Hebrew, etc.);

The aleph list may be able to serve as an appropriate place for many questions
related to multidirectional or multilingual typesetting under ConTeXt, if it
seems that the regular ConTeXt list is getting clogged. Put another way, these
two lists will probably suffice. For example, some of u mentioned a possible
CJK module for e-Omega; details of that might seem appropriate for the aleph
list. As Arabic, Hebrew, and CJK modules are built for ConTeXt the aleph list
may come in handy to share and/or consolidate ideas, with a view to helping the
future multilingual development of ConTeXt remain consistent.

Best
Idris

Re[2]: Re: CJK support in ConTeXt

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Wednesday, August 27, 2003 Idris S Hamid wrote:

> Since

> 1. the aleph list is going to be low-traffic;
> 2. eomega (soon-to-be-Aleph) is geared towards multidirectional/ TeX (CJK,
> Arabic, Hebrew, etc.);

> The aleph list may be able to serve as an appropriate place for many questions
> related to multidirectional or multilingual typesetting under ConTeXt, if it
> seems that the regular ConTeXt list is getting clogged. Put another way, these
> two lists will probably suffice. For example, some of u mentioned a possible
> CJK module for e-Omega; details of that might seem appropriate for the aleph
> list. As Arabic, Hebrew, and CJK modules are built for ConTeXt the aleph list
> may come in handy to share and/or consolidate ideas, with a view to helping the
> future multilingual development of ConTeXt remain consistent.

I like the idea, especially since Hans is *very* likely to
follow the Aleph list (I mean, is there a TeX-related mailing
list he doesn't follow? <g>)

I'll wait a little to see if Willi Egger sees the request, then
I'll send him a private message to ask for the creation of the
mailing list.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

RE: Re: CJK support in ConTeXt

[Tim 't Hart]

Idris S Hamid wrote:

> The aleph list may be able to serve as an appropriate place for many
> questions
> related to multidirectional or multilingual typesetting under ConTeXt, if
> it
> seems that the regular ConTeXt list is getting clogged. Put another way,
> these
> two lists will probably suffice. For example, some of u mentioned a
> possible
> CJK module for e-Omega; details of that might seem appropriate for the
> aleph
> list. As Arabic, Hebrew, and CJK modules are built for ConTeXt the aleph
> list
> may come in handy to share and/or consolidate ideas, with a view to
> helping the
> future multilingual development of ConTeXt remain consistent.

I agree that there should be another list for e-Omega (Aleph) where we can
discuss implementing multilingual code for ConTeXt, because I think it's a
bit off-topic for the regular ConTeXt list.

But on the other hand, I also support Hong Feng when he wants to create a
mailing list just for the developers of the CJK package. Or maybe just a
temporary list, just for organizational reasons.

Also a reason is that it's not already sure if e-Omega is the best option
for this (although after using Giuseppe's latest e-Omega version, I think it
is the best option) and that the creation of the CJK module will need
discussions that have nothing to do with e-Omega, like implementing CJK
chapter headings, East Asian line breaking and numbering systems. Although
some of these are ConTeXt related problems, it's a bit off-topic for the
general ConTeXt list, but also off-topic for the e-Omega list. (Of course,
when the developers of the CJK module decide to use e-Omega to implement
their outcome of the discussions, they can use the e-Omega list)

Anyway, these are my thoughts about it, and it's getting past my bedtime.
I'm sure that someone can persuade me to think otherwise! :-)

Sleep well,
Tim 

Re[2]: Re: CJK support in ConTeXt

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Wednesday, August 27, 2003 Tim 't Hart wrote:

> I agree that there should be another list for e-Omega (Aleph) where we can
> discuss implementing multilingual code for ConTeXt, because I think it's a
> bit off-topic for the regular ConTeXt list.

> But on the other hand, I also support Hong Feng when he wants to create a
> mailing list just for the developers of the CJK package. Or maybe just a
> temporary list, just for organizational reasons.

> Also a reason is that it's not already sure if e-Omega is the best option
> for this (although after using Giuseppe's latest e-Omega version, I think it
> is the best option) and that the creation of the CJK module will need
> discussions that have nothing to do with e-Omega, like implementing CJK
> chapter headings, East Asian line breaking and numbering systems. Although
> some of these are ConTeXt related problems, it's a bit off-topic for the
> general ConTeXt list, but also off-topic for the e-Omega list. (Of course,
> when the developers of the CJK module decide to use e-Omega to implement
> their outcome of the discussions, they can use the e-Omega list)

> Anyway, these are my thoughts about it, and it's getting past my bedtime.
> I'm sure that someone can persuade me to think otherwise! :-)

While I agree that the CJK module is specialized, I'm not sure
the discussion should necessarily take place somewhere else.
After all, it's most definitely a ConTeXt-specific thing.

Maybe you should go the same route as the other "external"
modules? I don't know, where do the other ConTeXt module get
discussed? Does DocbookInConTeXt have its own mailing list?

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that the latest e-Omega is working for
you too :) these news are the best ones me and the others of
the e-Omega task force can receive :)

But, if you find a way to support CJK *without* e-Omega, you
should also try that route; there already is some support for
Chinese, AFAIK, in ConTeXt, so maybe something else can be
done without making use of Omega-specific features (you're
welcome to make use of e-TeX features, which are now almost
universally available).

In any case, good luck with your project,

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta