Still the old layout problem

Still the old layout problem

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Hello,

I come here to re-issue the problem with the default layout: as it
is on my machine, the layout is slightly off-centered: the first
half centimeter pops out of the left margin; issuing a horoffset
correction of .5cm fixes the problem, but as it can be seen by
\showframe the whole page is shifted, so that document editing
with this debug feature shows that unpleasant black line running
down the left margin.

I understand that this layout has to be kept the default for
backwards compatibility reasons, but I think that a new layout
which fits nicely and correctly on the default A4 paper should be
provided, and made available by an appropriate command
(\usenewlayout ?), something alike the macro that corrects the
original design "flaw" of swapping left and right
justification/raggedness.

As an option, named layout could be added (or are they already
there?), with a \definelayout command et similia (\uselayout, a
change in \setuplayout, etc.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Still the old layout problem

[Jens-Uwe Morawski]

On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 13:07:57 +0200
Giuseppe Bilotta <gip.bilotta@iol.it> wrote:

> I understand that this layout has to be kept the default for
> backwards compatibility reasons,

hmm, declaring bugs as features is one reason why some
people dislike LaTeX more and more. I think ConTeXt is
too young for this state. ;-)

Is it really impossible to fix that bug completely?

Regards,
  Jens

Re: Still the old layout problem

[Hans Hagen]

At 09:23 PM 8/4/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 13:07:57 +0200
>Giuseppe Bilotta <gip.bilotta@iol.it> wrote:
>
>
> > I understand that this layout has to be kept the default for
> > backwards compatibility reasons,
>
>hmm, declaring bugs as features is one reason why some
>people dislike LaTeX more and more. I think ConTeXt is
>too young for this state. ;-)
>
>Is it really impossible to fix that bug completely?

it's not a bug, i.e. bug<>anything_that_gip_dislikes

btw, a similar question could arise for head styles being normal or bold

The best thing to do is to define a series of alternative defaults, like:

symmetrical layout
bold headers
packed itemized lists

and some more. of course the big problem here is that it's hard to get an 
agreement on what defaults to use

Now, if some users can compose a 'list of alternatives', i can provide a 
module that provides them,

Hans

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Still the old layout problem

[Jens-Uwe Morawski]

On Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:30:02 +0200
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> At 09:23 PM 8/4/2002 +0200, you wrote:
> >On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 13:07:57 +0200
> >Giuseppe Bilotta <gip.bilotta@iol.it> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I understand that this layout has to be kept the default for
> > > backwards compatibility reasons,
> >Is it really impossible to fix that bug completely?
> 
> it's not a bug, i.e. bug<>anything_that_gip_dislikes
> 
> btw, a similar question could arise for head styles being normal or bold
> 
> The best thing to do is to define a series of alternative defaults, like:
> 
> symmetrical layout
> bold headers
> packed itemized lists
>
> Now, if some users can compose a 'list of alternatives', i can provide a 
> module that provides them,

i don't know what you mean with module, but if i understand your
statements about layouts in the past, then you prefer that each
document should be layouted from scratch. I agree with that opinion.
Therefore, a module, as i understand this term, is not the apropriate
solution. May be providing some environments (env-XXXX.tex) for
products and projects would be better.

 But there is one thing that can go in a module. One may call
 it a layout engine. In some basic books about typography there
 one can find often 2 or 3 methods of recommended page layout.
 One of these methods is the 'division' of the page by a fixed
 number in rows and columns. There are more methods, of course.

 May be supporting those methods can help to ease page layout
 more than fixed default settings, i.e.
 \setuplayout[method=division,dividedby=11]

Best,
  Jens

Re: Still the old layout problem

[Hans Hagen]

At 01:07 PM 8/4/2002 +0200, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I come here to re-issue the problem with the default layout: as it
>is on my machine, the layout is slightly off-centered: the first
>half centimeter pops out of the left margin; issuing a horoffset
>correction of .5cm fixes the problem, but as it can be seen by
>\showframe the whole page is shifted, so that document editing
>with this debug feature shows that unpleasant black line running
>down the left margin.
>
>I understand that this layout has to be kept the default for
>backwards compatibility reasons, but I think that a new layout
>which fits nicely and correctly on the default A4 paper should be
>provided, and made available by an appropriate command
>(\usenewlayout ?), something alike the macro that corrects the
>original design "flaw" of swapping left and right
>justification/raggedness.
>
>As an option, named layout could be added (or are they already
>there?), with a \definelayout command et similia (\uselayout, a
>change in \setuplayout, etc.

hm, this is not a design flaw, but a deliberate one, since in the beginning 
we used context mainly for single sided stapled reports where we can write 
notes in the margin,

So, why not define:

\definelayout
   [centered]
   [width=middle,
    height=middle,
    margin=1.75cm] % \dimexpr(\backspace-\margindistance-.25cm)

in your local cont-sys file so that you can say:

\setuplayout[centered]

so, there is no need for \usenewlayout esp since you cna bet that others 
will ask for a \usenewerlayout and \usenewestlayout, for instance because 
they want vertically centered and/or a larger backspace or inches instead 
of cms etc

It is on my agenda to predefine a couple of layouts and provide them in a 
module

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re[2]: Still the old layout problem

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Sunday, August 4, 2002 Hans Hagen wrote:

HH> hm, this is not a design flaw, but a deliberate one, since in the beginning
HH> we used context mainly for single sided stapled reports where we can write 
HH> notes in the margin,

Yes, I read it in the docs :)

HH> So, why not define:

HH> \definelayout
HH>    [centered]
HH>    [width=middle,
HH>     height=middle,
HH>     margin=1.75cm] % \dimexpr(\backspace-\margindistance-.25cm)

HH> in your local cont-sys file so that you can say:

HH> \setuplayout[centered]

AAARGH! I totally missed the existence of \definelayout !!!

HH> It is on my agenda to predefine a couple of layouts and provide them in a
HH> module

I'll see if I can come up with some interesting stuff.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta