EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Gerben.Wierda]

I'd like to keep working in one format so I was wondering if there is a
ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB (next to normal PDF)?

Thanks,

G

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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 16.02.2011 um 17:42 schrieb Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl:

> I'd like to keep working in one format so I was wondering if there is a
> ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB (next to normal PDF)?

With MkIV you can get a xml version of document with \setupbackend[export=yes].

Wolfgang

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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Gerben Wierda]

On 16 Feb 2011, at 17:47, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> 
> Am 16.02.2011 um 17:42 schrieb Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl:
> 
>> I'd like to keep working in one format so I was wondering if there is a
>> ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB (next to normal PDF)?
> 
> With MkIV you can get a xml version of document with \setupbackend[export=yes].

But that XML is not ePUB's XML, I assume.

I am still on MKII. Is there a good manual what is needed to  move from MKII to MKIV?

G
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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Hans Hagen]

On 17-2-2011 8:14, Gerben Wierda wrote:
> On 16 Feb 2011, at 17:47, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 16.02.2011 um 17:42 schrieb Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl:
>>
>>> I'd like to keep working in one format so I was wondering if there is a
>>> ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB (next to normal PDF)?
>>
>> With MkIV you can get a xml version of document with \setupbackend[export=yes].
>
> But that XML is not ePUB's XML, I assume.

no, but one can of course convert one kind of xml into another

for epub one has to provice css etc anyway (and epub is not much more 
than packaged html + css)

going the other way around, processing an epub file also demands some 
handywork as the source code is not by definition well structured

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Daniel Lyons]

On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

> On 17-2-2011 8:14, Gerben Wierda wrote:
>> On 16 Feb 2011, at 17:47, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 16.02.2011 um 17:42 schrieb Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl:
>>> 
>>>> I'd like to keep working in one format so I was wondering if there is a
>>>> ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB (next to normal PDF)?
>>> 
>>> With MkIV you can get a xml version of document with \setupbackend[export=yes].
>> 
>> But that XML is not ePUB's XML, I assume.
> 
> no, but one can of course convert one kind of xml into another
> 
> for epub one has to provice css etc anyway (and epub is not much more than packaged html + css)

This would also be useful to me. In my experience, the unpleasant part of generating ePub is making correctly formatted manifests and putting them in the right places inside the right kinds of zip files. If ConTeXt could do this for me, it would certainly make life easier. On the other hand, it may not be appropriate to bother because there are other tools that will convert HTML to ePub for you and make the manifests (Calibre, for example). 

I consider CSS intractable so that's not something I would worry about ConTeXt generating for me, if it were on the table.

> going the other way around, processing an epub file also demands some handywork as the source code is not by definition well structured


ePub is definitely structured. I would say too structured, since it makes you provide both a ToC manifest and a navigation manifest that necessarily must include almost identical information ;) Of course, depending on a simplified browser for your document viewing and having lots of secret failover modes to handle poorly formatted documents makes the structure less meaningful than it ought to be.

You are free to break your document into as many HTML chunks as you wish, but you are limited to fairly prosaic HTML and CSS. I'm of the impression the HTML documents generally map onto chapters so as not to distress the hardware's memory constraints too much.

Overall, ePub and Kindle's format strike me as too much and too little respectively. I should be able to change the font and the formatting, but I definitely consider HTML + CSS is too much complexity.

— 
Daniel Lyons

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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Hans Hagen]

On 17-2-2011 9:10, Daniel Lyons wrote:

> ePub is definitely structured. I would say too structured, since it makes you provide both a ToC manifest and a navigation manifest that necessarily must include almost identical information ;) Of course, depending on a simplified browser for your document viewing and having lots of secret failover modes to handle poorly formatted documents makes the structure less meaningful than it ought to be.
>
> You are free to break your document into as many HTML chunks as you wish, but you are limited to fairly prosaic HTML and CSS. I'm of the impression the HTML documents generally map onto chapters so as not to distress the hardware's memory constraints too much.

what mean with not being structured is that clever css trickery can hide 
weird structure

i have a style somewhere that typesets an epub document (directly) but 
when testing an epub file from somehwere it found out that there were 
artifacts like

<H1>1</H1><H3>Chapter title</H3>

so i decided not to spend too much time on it and only bother with epub 
if it comes to me as project

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Gerben Wierda]

On 17 Feb 2011, at 10:49, Hans Hagen wrote:

> i have a style somewhere that typesets an epub document (directly) but when testing an epub file from somehwere it found out that there were artifacts like
> 
> <H1>1</H1><H3>Chapter title</H3>

Ugh. Yes, that clearly shows that the seemingly conceptual items like H1, H3 are in fact used as graphical elements. Interesting to see how that then ends up in a table of contents for instance.

G
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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[William Adams]

On Feb 17, 2011, at 5:48 AM, Gerben Wierda wrote:

> Ugh. Yes, that clearly shows that the seemingly conceptual items like H1, H3 are in fact used as graphical elements. Interesting to see how that then ends up in a table of contents for instance.

Say rather that what should be formal markup can instead be _misused_ for graphical formatting by those accustomed to WYSIWYG and who don't trouble to learn how to properly do CSS.

William

-- 
William Adams
senior graphic designer
Fry Communications
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.

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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Hans Hagen]

On 19-2-2011 9:32, Gerben Wierda wrote:
> On 18 Feb 2011, at 03:43, Mica Semrick wrote:
>
>> Have you considered authoring in something besides context? Say TEI XML or Docbook, or even markdown (if possible)? If markdown is suitable, then you can end up with both epub and context at the end. Or if using TEI or docbook, you can write a map file (something I have been trying to do) and typeset the xml file directly with context. I'm always happier knowing that I can get as many different output types from a single source as possible.
>
> I use ConTeXt, because for my main project I want detailed influence on layout and I want to use a lot of the powerful stuff like indexes, endnotes, footnotes, content, etc.. For a second, much simpler, project I was thinking about producing EPUB. I rather use only one environment (TeX, in this case ConTeXt and the Jove editor and make) and rather not work in multiple environments. So, for me, the start is ConTeXt.

in that case use a lot of structure (like \startchapter instead of 
\chapter and \startitem instead of \item) and use the xml export as it 
can be converted to html easily

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Gerben Wierda]

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On 18 Feb 2011, at 03:43, Mica Semrick wrote:

> Have you considered authoring in something besides context? Say TEI XML or Docbook, or even markdown (if possible)? If markdown is suitable, then you can end up with both epub and context at the end. Or if using TEI or docbook, you can write a map file (something I have been trying to do) and typeset the xml file directly with context. I'm always happier knowing that I can get as many different output types from a single source as possible. 

I use ConTeXt, because for my main project I want detailed influence on layout and I want to use a lot of the powerful stuff like indexes, endnotes, footnotes, content, etc.. For a second, much simpler, project I was thinking about producing EPUB. I rather use only one environment (TeX, in this case ConTeXt and the Jove editor and make) and rather not work in multiple environments. So, for me, the start is ConTeXt.

G


> 
> BR,
> Mica
> 
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 01:10:42 -0700
> From: Daniel Lyons <fusion@storytotell.org>
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?
> Message-ID: <D7225CF0-F6CF-485F-BE01-C8A254EFCA93@storytotell.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> 
> On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> > On 17-2-2011 8:14, Gerben Wierda wrote:
> >> On 16 Feb 2011, at 17:47, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Am 16.02.2011 um 17:42 schrieb Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl:
> >>>
> >>>> I'd like to keep working in one format so I was wondering if there is a
> >>>> ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB (next to normal PDF)?
> >>>
> >>> With MkIV you can get a xml version of document with \setupbackend[export=yes].
> >>
> >> But that XML is not ePUB's XML, I assume.
> >
> > no, but one can of course convert one kind of xml into another
> >
> > for epub one has to provice css etc anyway (and epub is not much more than packaged html + css)
> 
> This would also be useful to me. In my experience, the unpleasant part of generating ePub is making correctly formatted manifests and putting them in the right places inside the right kinds of zip files. If ConTeXt could do this for me, it would certainly make life easier. On the other hand, it may not be appropriate to bother because there are other tools that will convert HTML to ePub for you and make the manifests (Calibre, for example).
> 
> I consider CSS intractable so that's not something I would worry about ConTeXt generating for me, if it were on the table.
> 
> > going the other way around, processing an epub file also demands some handywork as the source code is not by definition well structured
> 
> 
> ePub is definitely structured. I would say too structured, since it makes you provide both a ToC manifest and a navigation manifest that necessarily must include almost identical information ;) Of course, depending on a simplified browser for your document viewing and having lots of secret failover modes to handle poorly formatted documents makes the structure less meaningful than it ought to be.
> 
> You are free to break your document into as many HTML chunks as you wish, but you are limited to fairly prosaic HTML and CSS. I'm of the impression the HTML documents generally map onto chapters so as not to distress the hardware's memory constraints too much.
> 
> Overall, ePub and Kindle's format strike me as too much and too little respectively. I should be able to change the font and the formatting, but I definitely consider HTML + CSS is too much complexity.
> 
> ?
> Daniel Lyons
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________


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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Daniel Lyons]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 06:43:43PM -0800, Mica Semrick wrote:
> Have you considered authoring in something besides context? Say TEI XML or
> Docbook, or even markdown (if possible)? If markdown is suitable, then you
> can end up with both epub and context at the end. Or if using TEI or
> docbook, you can write a map file (something I have been trying to do) and
> typeset the xml file directly with context. I'm always happier knowing that
> I can get as many different output types from a single source as possible.

These are good ideas. I haven't put a whole lot of thought into it yet
because the project is still somewhat in the future and I'm still just
learning ConTeXt, but I'll definitely consider markdown. I have done
DocBook before, and wasn't impressed; it just seems like a world of
pain to write and then another world of pain to process, just to be
able to say you did it in XML. I have been told to look at DITA, but I
can't make heads or tails of it. Never tried TEI.

Thanks!

-- 
Daniel
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Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?

[Mica Semrick]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3207 bytes --]

Have you considered authoring in something besides context? Say TEI XML or
Docbook, or even markdown (if possible)? If markdown is suitable, then you
can end up with both epub and context at the end. Or if using TEI or
docbook, you can write a map file (something I have been trying to do) and
typeset the xml file directly with context. I'm always happier knowing that
I can get as many different output types from a single source as possible.

BR,
Mica


> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 01:10:42 -0700
> From: Daniel Lyons <fusion@storytotell.org>
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?
> Message-ID: <D7225CF0-F6CF-485F-BE01-C8A254EFCA93@storytotell.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
>
> On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
> > On 17-2-2011 8:14, Gerben Wierda wrote:
> >> On 16 Feb 2011, at 17:47, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Am 16.02.2011 um 17:42 schrieb Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl:
> >>>
> >>>> I'd like to keep working in one format so I was wondering if there is
> a
> >>>> ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB (next to normal
> PDF)?
> >>>
> >>> With MkIV you can get a xml version of document with
> \setupbackend[export=yes].
> >>
> >> But that XML is not ePUB's XML, I assume.
> >
> > no, but one can of course convert one kind of xml into another
> >
> > for epub one has to provice css etc anyway (and epub is not much more
> than packaged html + css)
>
> This would also be useful to me. In my experience, the unpleasant part of
> generating ePub is making correctly formatted manifests and putting them in
> the right places inside the right kinds of zip files. If ConTeXt could do
> this for me, it would certainly make life easier. On the other hand, it may
> not be appropriate to bother because there are other tools that will convert
> HTML to ePub for you and make the manifests (Calibre, for example).
>
> I consider CSS intractable so that's not something I would worry about
> ConTeXt generating for me, if it were on the table.
>
> > going the other way around, processing an epub file also demands some
> handywork as the source code is not by definition well structured
>
>
> ePub is definitely structured. I would say too structured, since it makes
> you provide both a ToC manifest and a navigation manifest that necessarily
> must include almost identical information ;) Of course, depending on a
> simplified browser for your document viewing and having lots of secret
> failover modes to handle poorly formatted documents makes the structure less
> meaningful than it ought to be.
>
> You are free to break your document into as many HTML chunks as you wish,
> but you are limited to fairly prosaic HTML and CSS. I'm of the impression
> the HTML documents generally map onto chapters so as not to distress the
> hardware's memory constraints too much.
>
> Overall, ePub and Kindle's format strike me as too much and too little
> respectively. I should be able to change the font and the formatting, but I
> definitely consider HTML + CSS is too much complexity.
>
> ?
> Daniel Lyons
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________