Context manuals...

Context manuals...

[Zeljko Vrba]

The introductory manual says that there are many more commands not
described therein. Is there a some sort of reference manual for
context (I dont't meant the quick reference, I mean the real reference
manual with all comands listed ALONG with their description and description
of options...)

RE: Context manuals...

[Berend de Boer]

> The introductory manual says that there are many more commands not
> described therein. Is there a some sort of reference manual for
> context (I dont't meant the quick reference, I mean the real reference
> manual with all comands listed ALONG with their description
> and description
> of options...)

If you're dutch :-)

However, there is a beta english manual (only the first 5 chapters
currently) at:

	http://www.pragma-ade.nl/general/manuals/beta/cont-enp.pdf

Groetjes,

Berend. (-:

Context manuals

[John Culleton]

I am having a bit of trouble printing out the two manuals.
Are they for sale anywhere?

John Culleton
john@wexfordpress.com

Re: Context manuals

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello John,

> I am having a bit of trouble printing out the two manuals.

Where did you find the other one? ;-)

> Are they for sale anywhere?
This is very unlikley. Why don't you go to a copy shop of your choice and 
give them the pdf file?

-- 
Viele Grüße, 

    Patrick Gundlach

Re: Context manuals

[Frans Goddijn]

I think there's a market potential here for someone with access to a copier
and a machine to make paperbacks... I'd be willing to order one or two
copies right away...

> > I am having a bit of trouble printing out the two manuals.

> > Are they for sale anywhere?

> This is very unlikley. Why don't you go to a copy shop of your choice and
> give them the pdf file?

Re: Context manuals

[W. Egger]

May be we could setup a 'channel' that persons who would like to buy a bound
copy rather than print it themselves could order it. - I believe that the
numbers wouldn't be excessive and that we could have the manuals printed
e.g. in my neighbourhood and I could bind them by hand. - The question is
how to organize this matter: through Pragma or W. Egger (BOEDE)?

Personally I would be interested to set it up.

Groet Willi

----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Goddijn <frans@goddijn.com>
To: NTG-ConTeXt mailing list <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Context manuals

> I think there's a market potential here for someone with access to a
copier
> and a machine to make paperbacks... I'd be willing to order one or two
> copies right away...
>
> > > I am having a bit of trouble printing out the two manuals.
>
> > > Are they for sale anywhere?
>
> > This is very unlikley. Why don't you go to a copy shop of your choice
and
> > give them the pdf file?
>
>

Re: Context manuals

[Bruce Horrocks]

In message <006201c1ba41$9c238a60$0100a8c0@digitpaint.nl>,
on Wed, 20 Feb 2002 at 19:57:54, W. Egger wrote:

>May be we could setup a 'channel' that persons who would like to buy a 
>bound copy rather than print it themselves could order it. - I believe 
>that the numbers wouldn't be excessive and that we could have the 
>manuals printed e.g. in my neighbourhood and I could bind them by hand. 
>- The question is how to organize this matter: through Pragma or W. 
>Egger (BOEDE)?
>
>Personally I would be interested to set it up.

No need to set anything up since www.greatunpublished.com have already 
done it. Not sure if they can manage colour yet, though.

Regards,
-- 
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire
England
bh@granby.demon.co.uk

Re: Context manuals

[Frans Goddijn]

> >- The question is how to organize this matter:
> > through Pragma or W. Egger (BOEDE)?
> >Personally I would be interested to set it up.

>  www.greatunpublished.com have already
> done it.

Well they haven't for the manual(s) we are talking about here. That business
looks more like an enterprise to sell service to authors who can't find a
publisher and are tired of getting their manuscripts returned to them. What
we were talking about is not a service that would typeset Hans' manual for
him and get it ready for the printer (he's done that better than anyone
could) but a service point on both sides of the ocean and eventually on
every continent except Antarctica where people can order the printed and
nicely bound copy from a TeX user who knows what's actually in the manual
:-)

But as Taco remarked, it is probably useful if we brainstorm about it but
it's also interesting at some point to find out Hans' feelings about the
idea...

Groet,

Frans

Re: Context manuals

[Bruce Horrocks]

In message <008901c1badf$fecb6360$6401a8c0@lap>,
on Thu, 21 Feb 2002 at 14:59:25, Frans Goddijn wrote:

>> >- The question is how to organize this matter:
>> > through Pragma or W. Egger (BOEDE)?
>> >Personally I would be interested to set it up.
>
>>  www.greatunpublished.com have already
>> done it.
>
>Well they haven't for the manual(s) we are talking about here. That business
>looks more like an enterprise to sell service to authors who can't find a
>publisher and are tired of getting their manuscripts returned to them. What
>we were talking about is not a service that would typeset Hans' manual for
>him and get it ready for the printer (he's done that better than anyone
>could) but a service point on both sides of the ocean and eventually on
>every continent except Antarctica where people can order the printed and
>nicely bound copy from a TeX user who knows what's actually in the manual

Go and look at their offer again more carefully - that's *exactly* what 
greatunpublished do. They are perfectly able to accept a pre-formatted 
PDF file and print directly from it. The typesetting service is only for 
those that need it (which is probably most of their users, admittedly). 
The only restriction on you is that you have to fit to their standard 
paper size. They take orders from and deliver to pretty much anywhere in 
the world.

Regards,
-- 
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire
England
bh@granby.demon.co.uk

Re: Context manuals

[John Culleton]

On Friday 22 February 2002 09:02, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> In message <008901c1badf$fecb6360$6401a8c0@lap>,
>
> on Thu, 21 Feb 2002 at 14:59:25, Frans Goddijn wrote:
> >> >- The question is how to organize this matter:
> >> > through Pragma or W. Egger (BOEDE)?
> >> >Personally I would be interested to set it up.
> >>
> >>  www.greatunpublished.com have already
> >> done it.
> >
> >Well they haven't for the manual(s) we are talking about here.
> > That business looks more like an enterprise to sell service to
> > authors who can't find a publisher and are tired of getting their
> > manuscripts returned to them. What we were talking about is not a
> > service that would typeset Hans' manual for him and get it ready
> > for the printer (he's done that better than anyone could) but a
> > service point on both sides of the ocean and eventually on every
> > continent except Antarctica where people can order the printed
> > and nicely bound copy from a TeX user who knows what's actually
> > in the manual
>
> Go and look at their offer again more carefully - that's *exactly*
> what greatunpublished do. They are perfectly able to accept a
> pre-formatted PDF file and print directly from it. The typesetting
> service is only for those that need it (which is probably most of
> their users, admittedly). The only restriction on you is that you
> have to fit to their standard paper size. They take orders from and
> deliver to pretty much anywhere in the world.
>

There is still a problem with all that color printing. The manuals
as currently offered will be beyond the scope of most POD publishers,
and if color is used on very many pages quite expensive. At a minimum 
the 
chapter headings wold need to be reworked.  And the chapter on Color
would make no sense presented in grayscale.

Duplicating at several cent per page in color would also be 
costly. 

Hopefully Hans Hagen can offer us some guidance when he is available.
>

-- 
John Culleton, john@wexfordpress.com
   Able Indexers and Typesetters
      http://wexfordpress.com
<------------------------------------>

Re: Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:01 AM 2/22/2002 -0500, John Culleton wrote:

>There is still a problem with all that color printing. The manuals
>as currently offered will be beyond the scope of most POD publishers,
>and if color is used on very many pages quite expensive. At a minimum
>the
>chapter headings wold need to be reworked.  And the chapter on Color
>would make no sense presented in grayscale.

once i have time for it i can extend the manual generating scripts to 
provide bw versions (weighted gray scales)

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
www.pragma-pod.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Context manuals

[John Culleton]

On Wednesday 20 February 2002 13:57, W. Egger wrote:
> May be we could setup a 'channel' that persons who would like to
> buy a bound copy rather than print it themselves could order it. -
> I believe that the numbers wouldn't be excessive and that we could
> have the manuals printed e.g. in my neighbourhood and I could bind
> them by hand. - The question is how to organize this matter:
> through Pragma or W. Egger (BOEDE)?
>
> Personally I would be interested to set it up.
>
> Groet Willi
>
I suggest that considering postage costs and delays 
 we need two outlets --- one European
and one U. S. and Canada. I have the sense that Context is more used 
in 
Europe than here. But perhaps some readers can respond to the list 
who are on this side of the water and who would pay for a copy of
one or more books. 

With POD technology creating and even binding the books would not be
difficult. The use of color on the pages presents a problem however. 
On my laser printer (yes, I finally printed them out) the section
header pages came out gray on gray, not something someone would pay
big bucks for :-) But color printing either from POD or a copy shop
 would be a bit pricey. So perhaps a pdf file in black and white
 would be needed.

-- 
John Culleton, john@wexfordpress.com
   Able Indexers and Typesetters
      http://wexfordpress.com
<------------------------------------>

Re: Context manuals

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hans has a machine that is physically capable of generating
the required 'colored inks on paper' (but not for binding, I believe).
Anyhow this definately has to wait until Hans is available again.

> With POD technology creating and even binding the books would not be
> difficult. The use of color on the pages presents a problem however. 
> On my laser printer (yes, I finally printed them out) the section
> header pages came out gray on gray, not something someone would pay
> big bucks for :-) But color printing either from POD or a copy shop
>  would be a bit pricey. So perhaps a pdf file in black and white
>  would be needed.

-- 
groeten,

Taco

Re: Context manuals

[John Culleton]

On Wednesday 20 February 2002 04:28, you wrote:
> I think there's a market potential here for someone with access to
> a copier and a machine to make paperbacks... I'd be willing to
> order one or two copies right away...
>
> > > I am having a bit of trouble printing out the two manuals.
> > >
> > > Are they for sale anywhere?
> >
> > This is very unlikley. Why don't you go to a copy shop of your
> > choice and give them the pdf file?

Interesting suggestion. However the documents are copyrighted so
the permission of PRAGMA ADE would be needed. I will contact them 
and see what they say.

-- 
John Culleton, john@wexfordpress.com
   Able Indexers and Typesetters
      http://wexfordpress.com
<------------------------------------>

Re: Context manuals

[Frans Goddijn]

Hans Hagen is on his way to a TeX User Conference in Erlangen, Germany if I
understood properly so his response might take a little linger than usual.

> the permission of PRAGMA ADE would be needed.
> I will contact them and see what they say.

Re: Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 12:39 PM 2/22/2002 -0500, John Culleton wrote:
>On Wednesday 20 February 2002 04:28, you wrote:
> > I think there's a market potential here for someone with access to
> > a copier and a machine to make paperbacks... I'd be willing to
> > order one or two copies right away...
> >
> > > > I am having a bit of trouble printing out the two manuals.
> > > >
> > > > Are they for sale anywhere?
> > >
> > > This is very unlikley. Why don't you go to a copy shop of your
> > > choice and give them the pdf file?
>
>Interesting suggestion. However the documents are copyrighted so
>the permission of PRAGMA ADE would be needed. I will contact them
>and see what they say.

printing is fine, as long as you don't sell them

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
www.pragma-pod.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Context manuals

[Frans Goddijn]

But if for instance Willi Egger would have prints made that he bound and
sent out by mail order, he would be charging money for his time I suppose...
and justly too. Is that "selling" in your view or delivering for a fee?

Frans

> I think there's a market potential here for someone with access to
> a copier and a machine to make paperbacks... I'd be willing to
> order one or two copies right away...

> printing is fine, as long as you don't sell them
>
> Hans

Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 02:00 PM 10/21/2002 +0200, Jens-Uwe Morawski wrote:

>hmm, i'm thinking about an XML-file:
><contextfaq>

<authors>
   <entry><fname>...</fname><sname>.../sname></entry>
</authors>

>         <author>...</author>


<keywords>
   <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
   ...
</keywords>

is better since we can then pick up and store the whole lot

>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <section>...</section>
>         <subsection>...</subsection>

aren't sections at a higher level here?


>         <question>....</question>
>         <answer>
>                 ....
>         </answer>
></contextfaq>

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 09:34 PM 10/22/2002 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>Am Dienstag, 22. Oktober 2002 10:59 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> > <authors>
> >    <entry><fname>...</fname><sname>.../sname></entry>
> > </authors>
>
>No, that doesn't fit.
>Perhaps <faq author="user"> is better.
>I'd use your verbose tags only in a user database.

but you want to typeset the names correctly, and also be able to sort them 
in several ways ...

> > <keywords>
> >    <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
> > </keywords>
> > is better since we can then pick up and store the whole lot
>
>The bundling is ok, but why should the entry use an option?
>I understand the keywords only as a help for finding und see no sense in
>describing them further.

unless you also want to sort 'm, typeset them, etc

xml is about reusing information !

> > >         <section>...</section>
> > >         <subsection>...</subsection>
> > aren't sections at a higher level here?
>
>As I wrote in the other mail, I'd suggest a generic format like "2.1.3" that
>links to an other database with the titles for 2, 1, and 3.
>
>It seems that I must first get some experience with XML before defining a
>style

hm, just remove backslashes, add < / > characacters and you're nearly done;

in most cases: think of what you ever would like to do with the data (15 
years from now) and then start coding, it's not so much about redudancy, 
but about adding enough structure (i.e. from the perspective of 
typesetting: hooks)

>I'm thinking always in matters of relational databases, but XML files can't
>link to others, can they? I hate redundancy.

of course they can link, just define your element/attribute as such; it's 
up to you to define that something links:

<whatever file="..." location="..."/>

it's up to the postprocessor to act upon this (go to the file/location, 
include the file, etc)

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
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Re: Context manuals

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2002 01:23 schrieb Hans Hagen:

[AUTHOR]
> >Perhaps <faq author="user"> is better.
> >I'd use your verbose tags only in a user database.
> but you want to typeset the names correctly, and also be able to sort them
> in several ways ...

But I get much redundancy and perhaps inconsistency if I give whole author 
information in every question.
Therefore I would only give some short name ("login") and collect the whole
information (forename, surname, email, homepage, quote...) in a separate
authors/users database.

[KEYWORDS]
> > >    <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
> >The bundling is ok, but why should the entry use an option?
> unless you also want to sort 'm, typeset them, etc
> xml is about reusing information !

Please explain, what the 'key="xyz"' is for?
I would define keywords for searching (web version) and indexing (PDF version) 
-- what does a keyword need an other description?
e.g.
<keywords>
	<entry>math</entry>
	<entry>formula</entry>
</keywords>
or perhaps
<keywords>
	<entry lang="en">math</entry>
	<entry lang="en">formula</entry>
	<entry lang="de">Mathematik</entry>
	<entry lang="de">Formel</entry>
</keywords>

(I'd like to make the FAQ multilingual, but I guess it's too much work...)

> of course they can link, just define your element/attribute as such; it's
> up to you to define that something links:
> <whatever file="..." location="..."/>

would be
<author file="authors.xml">hans</author>
<editor file="authors.xml">hraban</editor>
correct?

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
-- 
http://www.ramm.ch/context/
---

Re: Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 09:15 PM 10/23/2002 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>Am Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2002 01:23 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>
>[AUTHOR]
> > >Perhaps <faq author="user"> is better.
> > >I'd use your verbose tags only in a user database.
> > but you want to typeset the names correctly, and also be able to sort them
> > in several ways ...
>
>But I get much redundancy and perhaps inconsistency if I give whole author
>information in every question.
>Therefore I would only give some short name ("login") and collect the whole
>information (forename, surname, email, homepage, quote...) in a separate
>authors/users database.

ah, i didn't get that, sounds ok to me.

>[KEYWORDS]
> > > >    <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
> > >The bundling is ok, but why should the entry use an option?
> > unless you also want to sort 'm, typeset them, etc
> > xml is about reusing information !
>
>Please explain, what the 'key="xyz"' is for?

\TeX should be sorted under tex or tech, so there is a typo as well as 
sorting version

>I would define keywords for searching (web version) and indexing (PDF 
>version)
>-- what does a keyword need an other description?
>e.g.
><keywords>
>         <entry>math</entry>
>         <entry>formula</entry>
></keywords>
>or perhaps
><keywords>
>         <entry lang="en">math</entry>
>         <entry lang="en">formula</entry>
>         <entry lang="de">Mathematik</entry>
>         <entry lang="de">Formel</entry>
></keywords>
>
>(I'd like to make the FAQ multilingual, but I guess it's too much work...)

just go for english

> > of course they can link, just define your element/attribute as such; it's
> > up to you to define that something links:
> > <whatever file="..." location="..."/>
>
>would be
><author file="authors.xml">hans</author>
><editor file="authors.xml">hraban</editor>
>correct?

no, more something:

<include href="authors.xml">

<author label="hans"/>
<author label="hraban"/>

saves keystrokes too - )

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------