Re: Page Numbering Hell

["Boštjan Vesnicer" <bostjan.vesnicer@gmail.com>]

Alan,

for me it is actually very obvious an easy to understand the situation
about missing documentation. In my opinion there are a couple of
reasons for that:
- The gurus don't have time to write the documentation since they have
more important things to do, i.e. implementing features.
- Documentation (in a form of a manual) is of the most value to the
newbies, but they can't write a manual by themselves about something
they dont't know much about. So they ask for the documentation on the
mailing list, but they eventually find out that the up-to-date
documentation is missing and they start to use other sources of
information (wiki, mailing list, source code etc.). They learn slowly,
but at the end (if they persist long enough) they know enough that
they maybe could write a manual. However, they don't really need the
manual any more so they decide not to write one. (Paradoxical
situation, I know.)
- The key is in the motivation. If you want better documentation, you
have to figure out how to convince the gurus to write one.

Best regards,
Bostjan


On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Bryant Eastham
<beastham@pewla.us.pewg.panasonic.com> wrote:
> Alan-
>
> Thanks for taking time to respond. However, I'm not sure how exaggerated
> my post was.
>
> Believe me, I understand learning curves. I have been a LaTeX user (off
> and on) for almost two decades (leading to my excitement about ConTeXt,
> :-) ). However, in order to learn one either needs documents or mentors.
> It helps to have both.
>
> I also understand the complexity that comes with powerful languages. I
> have been writing software of various types for almost thirty years. The
> move from mkii to mkiv will, I'm sure, be a good thing in the end.
>
> However, I find it interesting that in your response there was not a
> single real answer to any of my direct questions, nor a working example
> of what you admit should be a "simple matter".
>
> Don't get me wrong! This is not an attack on the group or on you
> personally - I really do appreciate the response. I hope that others
> will be able to correctly fill in the rest of the "magic sauce" that
> makes the document work and answer my other questions. However, I
> believe that my original statements, which boil down to "This thing may
> be great, but it needs to be documented (or where is it documented?)",
> have been strengthened.
>
> Thanks,
> -Bryant
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan BRASLAU [mailto:alan.braslau@cea.fr]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:14 AM
> To: ntg-context@ntg.nl
> Cc: Bryant Eastham
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] Page Numbering Hell
>
> Dear Bryant,
>
> Your post is slightly exaggerated.
> The document structure that you want to produce
> appears to be relatively standard. Whereas,
> indeed, the learning curve for ConTeXt (as for TeX)
> can be somewhat slow, the richness and powerfulness
> is well worth the effort.
>
> The documentation for ConTeXt (mkii) is quite rich,
> although it did take me some time to get used to
> the presentation and style. Some of the syntax
> has evolved in mkiv, mostly in an effort of
> simplification, but also to allow some powerful
> new features. The documentation is (slowly)
> being updated, as this is a tremendous effort.
> But it is a necessary effort. I believe that
> all of us users will appreciate the updated
> reference manual when it is completed!
>
> A notable change between mkii and mkiv
> is the handling of document structure.
> I, too, have had a difficult time with this evolution
> of such a fundamental functionality and will
> therefore let someone more expert reply to
> your request with specific examples on how
> to tune the style, notably page numbering;
> it should be a simple matter.
>
> Alan
>
> % missing setups to:
> % 1. frontmatter pagenumbering conversion=romannumerals
> % 2. bodymatter pagenumbering "chapter-page"
> % 3. reset pagenumber for each chapter
> % 4. add blank pages if necessary to start chapters on odd pages.
>
> \starttext
>
> \startfrontmatter
> \completecontent
> \stopfrontmatter
>
> \startbodymatter
> \chapter{Chapter}
> \section{Section}
> \chapter{Chapter 2}
> \section{Section}
> \stopbodymatter
>
> \stoptext
>
> On Wednesday 21 October 2009 08:36:35 Bryant Eastham wrote:
>> All-
>>
>> A few days ago when I first stumbled on ConTeXt I was very, very
>> excited. I have some 500 pages of technical documentation that could
>> benefit from this, particularly since I need Japanese font support.
> But
>> it has to be real.
>>
>> I'm sorry if this sounds caustic, but after 12 hours of failed
> attempts
>> to even get a minimal document formatted I have some serious questions
>> for the list:
>>
>> 1.       Is Mark IV real? I am only somewhat joking here - after
>> spending hours searching for reasonable documentation on even the most
>> trivial options, I am left wondering whether this is something I want
> to
>> use...
>>
>> 2.       ConTeXt looks great. But what is current? Seriously, I like
> the
>> look and the support (particularly Unicode). But going over
>> documentation I cannot make heads or tails of what to do. Mark II?
> Mark
>> IV? TeTeX? LuaTeX? If I really want to use this, what should I use?
>>
>> 3.       Having answered #2, where in the world is a reference
> manual!!!
>> I mean one that actually *documents the options*.
>>
>> 4.       Having answered #3, are there any current examples that
>> actually work? The snippets from the mailing are great, but they are
>> just snippets. That doesn't help me.
>>
>> Now, to resolve my immediate issue, and just because I will not be
> able
>> to sleep well until I figure this out (yes, I am fixated on this).
>>
>> I want this document structure:
>>
>> Contents
>>
>> 1.       Chapter                                   1-1
>>
>> 1.1 Section                             1-2
>>
>> 2.   Chapter 2                                  2-1
>>
>>     2.1 Section                                 2-2
>>
>>
>> Table of contents on page "i".
>> Even/odd, each chapter starts on right page.
>> Page number (as in 2-2) in top margin.
>> Mark IV, Lua document.
>>
>> I have tried hundreds of different combinations. If it cannot do this,
>> the I will (with sadness) move on. I'm sure that it would take someone
>> who understands this about 5 minutes to write (if that).
>>
>> -Bryant
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________