* web site @ 2001-11-13 21:11 Hans Hagen 2001-11-13 22:49 ` Marco Kuhlmann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-13 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, I still have to re-arrange the domain name, but the new site (that is, old site with new content) can be reached at: ds035.xs4all.nl it's a dedicated server on a pretty fast backbone. I still have to redo the pod.cod sites. There are new manuals there as well as regenerated versions of older ones. We plan to upgrade some of them on a short notice (the beginners one, texexec, metafun and the big one). Some of you sent me corrections, which are not yet done but will be done. The qrc's are a mixture of new cover and old content, but the tables will be upgraded (new look and feel) too. This process goes hand in hand with the xml based interface definitions. There is also a new context zip. There are new xml things in there but the schema's are yet inperfect. Although i still have to move some optimizations in the kernel (testing them now) this new version should run much faster although it may go unnoticed on small and relatively simple jobs. I will upload more manuals and goodies later, but it may be worth to follow the "big picture" link on the first page. This will bring you to the new pdf based navigation shell. The basic documents is: showcase.pdf and the sub documents: show-man.pdf : an overview of all manuals show-pre.pdf : documentation of the presentation styles + examples show-dem.pdf : the demos show-pap.pdf : papers show-art.pdf : articles I tried to make them nice documents and they also show a couple of metapost tricks. Downloading show-pre and show-man make take some time (a couple of megs) but is worth doing. Of course this is all "work in progress". [there is also a zip with presentation stuff under /zipped/present.zip). If you save your documentation files in the same structure as the site (most manuals are searched under general/manuals) you havea nice interface to all context documents. Later i will try to make a kind of mirror script (maybe in texexec) so that documentation can be fetched/updated automatically [too many massive wget --mir's will overflow our monthly bandwidth budget -)]. Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: web site 2001-11-13 21:11 web site Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-13 22:49 ` Marco Kuhlmann 2001-11-14 11:38 ` Math module (Re[2]: web site) Giuseppe Bilotta 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Marco Kuhlmann @ 2001-11-13 22:49 UTC (permalink / raw) Hans Hagen wrote (2001-11-13 (22:11)): > I tried to make them nice documents and they also show a couple of metapost > tricks. Downloading show-pre and show-man make take some time (a couple of > megs) but is worth doing. Of course this is all "work in progress". [there > is also a zip with presentation stuff under /zipped/present.zip). You finally got me. I just erased latex from harddisk. :-) If only m-math would work... <hint> I just noticed a broken link on http://ds035.xs4all.nl/beta.htm Thanks for this great work, Marco -- Marco Kuhlmann marco.kuhlmann@gmx.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-13 22:49 ` Marco Kuhlmann @ 2001-11-14 11:38 ` Giuseppe Bilotta 2001-11-14 12:55 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-11-14 11:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context Tuesday, November 13, 2001 Marco Kuhlmann wrote: MK> You finally got me. I just erased latex from harddisk. :-) If MK> only m-math would work... <hint> I'm not dumping LaTeX exactly for that reason. Doing math in ConTeXt (which is basically plain TeX) is too hard. BTW, it is possible to use m-math with the latest ConTeXt, provided a couple of blocks are commented. Anyway, I'm reworking another one from scratch ... will see if I can make it usefull. -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-14 11:38 ` Math module (Re[2]: web site) Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-11-14 12:55 ` Hans Hagen 2001-11-14 16:25 ` Re[2]: " Giuseppe Bilotta 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-14 12:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Marco Kuhlmann, ntg-context At 12:38 PM 11/14/2001 +0100, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote: >Tuesday, November 13, 2001 Marco Kuhlmann wrote: > >MK> You finally got me. I just erased latex from harddisk. :-) If >MK> only m-math would work... <hint> > >I'm not dumping LaTeX exactly for that reason. Doing math in >ConTeXt (which is basically plain TeX) is too hard. > >BTW, it is possible to use m-math with the latest ConTeXt, >provided a couple of blocks are commented. Anyway, I'm reworking >another one from scratch ... will see if I can make it usefull. much of the math module can go or remapped onto other context things; actually i want a much more higher level package (also moe tuned for educational purposes). The main thing in the math module is the breaking of long formulas and bold fonts. What exactly is it that latex math has that context doesn't? Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re[2]: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-14 12:55 ` Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-14 16:25 ` Giuseppe Bilotta 2001-11-14 16:53 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-11-14 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context Wednesday, November 14, 2001 Hans Hagen wrote: HH> much of the math module can go or remapped onto other context HH> things; actually i want a much more higher level package (also HH> moe tuned for educational purposes). The main thing in the HH> math module is the breaking of long formulas and bold fonts. HH> What exactly is it that latex math has that context doesn't? Mostly user level commands to ease the use of different kinds of equations/equation groups, and better for to plain TeX commands, sometimes with automatic things. All of them can be achieved via plain TeX (obviously), but with *much* more troubles. If you want, I can send you the PDF manual created by the .dtx file (something like a compiled module in ConTeXt) -- 320Kb, about 90 pages of commented code. Breaking equations is *not* an AMS-LaTeX feature. AFAIK it comes from the (LaTeX) package breqn. Anyway, AMS features can be summed up as: (1) choice of placement of limits on or around integrals, sums/products and operator names (three options), and more generic forms of integrals. Not hard to implement, I would say. And AFAIK functioning from Taco's module. (2) flushing equations left or centering them. Haven't tested this in Taco's module. (3) a \text command which inserts standard text with appropriate font size (small in superscripts, etc). AFAIK, functioning from Taco's module. (4) Poor man's bold and bold symbols. I don't need this (so I won't try to implement it), but others might. (5) Operator names. AFAIK, functioning from Taco's module. (6) Math spacing commands, functioning in text as well (7) Various ellipsis positioning (bottom, middle, etc), with choice of autodetection of correct position depending on surrounding text. (8) single-command calls to \left| and friends (\lvert, etc) (9) Fractions in the form \frac{num}{den} and friends (a LaTeX-way wrapper around \over and friends). AFAIK, functioning from Taco's module. (10) different roots and radicals management. (11) Greek letter variants which do not overwrite original defs (12) More delimiter sizes, and more generic commands to choose them (13) Math accents (more and with better positioning). Very tricky, and AFAIK the less functioning part of Taco's module. But even in LaTeX it's a horrible hack (as it is whenever something depends on fonts ...). Probably needs core hooks and switches. But I assume you already had a talk with Taco on this. (14) Extensible arrows. And serious stuff like: (15) subarray (for super/subscripter arrays); substack as a variation for it (16) matrices (including environment cases) (17) subequations and their numbering; appropriate equation numbering; tag (number) placement (top, bottom, center; style; cancelling it) (18) multiline equations, split by the user, with choice of alignment (both full split equation and partial split equations, as a subenvironment of another display math) (19) equation groups with and without alignment (20) quick choice of the different combos (aligned, nonaligned, numbered and unnumbered). Shortcut \[ ... \] for unnumbered displaymath. What is basically missing from Taco's module is 18--20 (and of course, they are the one I use most!). I think that the only thing that needs to be done in ConTeXt core is the math accent stuff. Everything else should be fine as it is in Taco's module, except maybe for some font stuff which should be adapted to the new ConTeXt internals. But this is for sure something *I* am not able to do (would need to study ConTeXt font internals thoroughly, and this is not the right moment). -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re[2]: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-14 16:25 ` Re[2]: " Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-11-14 16:53 ` Hans Hagen 2001-11-15 12:23 ` Re[3]: " Giuseppe Bilotta 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-14 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context At 05:25 PM 11/14/2001 +0100, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote: >I think that the only thing that needs to be done in ConTeXt core >is the math accent stuff. Everything else should be fine as it is >in Taco's module, except maybe for some font stuff which should be >adapted to the new ConTeXt internals. But this is for sure >something *I* am not able to do (would need to study ConTeXt font >internals thoroughly, and this is not the right moment). So, to summarize, we have several functions of the module: (1) fonts (2) amslatex compatible commands (3) breaking math Taco and I will handle (1) also because it is related to the new math symbol collections and mathml. If you can strip out all (2) and (3) specific thinsg (watch out: things like smashing are context core functionality) we can incrementaly replace m-math. I will clean up (2) code anyway (at least check it for things that can go into math-ext instead of a module.) Btw, spacing issues (like classes of display math) are core functionality already but i may need to extend it., so there will be left overs "to do". Hans PS. Maybe entering math in mathml syntax makes more sense; at least it is a better way to control consistency. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re[3]: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-14 16:53 ` Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-15 12:23 ` Giuseppe Bilotta 2001-11-15 14:07 ` Marco Kuhlmann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-11-15 12:23 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context, ntg-context Wednesday, November 14, 2001 Hans Hagen wrote: HH> At 05:25 PM 11/14/2001 +0100, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote: >>I think that the only thing that needs to be done in ConTeXt core >>is the math accent stuff. Everything else should be fine as it is >>in Taco's module, except maybe for some font stuff which should be >>adapted to the new ConTeXt internals. But this is for sure >>something *I* am not able to do (would need to study ConTeXt font >>internals thoroughly, and this is not the right moment). HH> So, to summarize, we have several functions of the module: HH> (1) fonts HH> (2) amslatex compatible commands HH> (3) breaking math HH> Taco and I will handle (1) also because it is related to the new math HH> symbol collections and mathml. Yes, I've seen that most of all is there already (even if I seem to have problems activating it ... how do you call the math symbol collection? How do you call the symbols? Trying \enablecollection[ams] and \symbol[varnothing] or \varnothing fails!). HH> If you can strip out all (2) and (3) specific thinsg (watch out: things HH> like smashing are context core functionality) we can incrementaly replace HH> m-math. Uhm. I think that I will just strip (3) from the current module --never used it, don't know how to handle it. I will try to get something done with (2), but don't expect anything useful too soon --I'm trying to study pretty hard for the next couple of months. HH> I will clean up (2) code anyway (at least check it for things that can go HH> into math-ext instead of a module.) Yes. The problem in (2) is that I will have to understand LaTeX internals and how they are called, together with ConTeXt internals and how to call them, because unless I go the "reimplementation from stratch" way I will have to build some kind of emulation code. Uhm. HH> Btw, spacing issues (like classes of display math) are core functionality HH> already but i may need to extend it., so there will be left overs "to do". I need these. How do I access them? Are they documented? Which ConTeXt module should I study? HH> PS. Maybe entering math in mathml syntax makes more sense; at least it is a HH> better way to control consistency. No way! MathML (like all XML) is overkill and only makes sense if an appropriate user interface (via editor or conversion) is build. -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-15 12:23 ` Re[3]: " Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2001-11-15 14:07 ` Marco Kuhlmann 2001-11-15 15:55 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Marco Kuhlmann @ 2001-11-15 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw) Giuseppe Bilotta wrote (2001-11-15 (13:23)): > HH> PS. Maybe entering math in mathml syntax makes more sense; at least it is a > HH> better way to control consistency. > > No way! MathML (like all XML) is overkill and only makes sense if > an appropriate user interface (via editor or conversion) is build. Like Emacs, you mean? :-) Earnestly, I would like to have the option of entering MathML. Of course, you can't make it the only choice, because then you would loose all the TeX compatibility and scare off people who want to convert to ConTeXt. Marco -- Marco Kuhlmann marco.kuhlmann@gmx.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-15 14:07 ` Marco Kuhlmann @ 2001-11-15 15:55 ` Hans Hagen 2001-11-19 11:54 ` Marco Kuhlmann 2001-11-19 15:38 ` Taco Hoekwater 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-15 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context At 02:07 PM 11/15/2001 +0000, Marco Kuhlmann wrote: >Giuseppe Bilotta wrote (2001-11-15 (13:23)): > > > HH> PS. Maybe entering math in mathml syntax makes more sense; at least > it is a > > HH> better way to control consistency. > > > > No way! MathML (like all XML) is overkill and only makes sense if > > an appropriate user interface (via editor or conversion) is build. > >Like Emacs, you mean? :-) > >Earnestly, I would like to have the option of entering MathML. well, go ahead then: \usemodule[mathml] \startXMLdata <math><apply><plus/>...... \stopXMLdata should work right now. Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-15 15:55 ` Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-19 11:54 ` Marco Kuhlmann 2001-11-19 15:38 ` Taco Hoekwater 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Marco Kuhlmann @ 2001-11-19 11:54 UTC (permalink / raw) Hans Hagen wrote (2001-11-15 (16:55)): > >Earnestly, I would like to have the option of entering MathML. > > well, go ahead then: Sorry, I did not make myself clear. What I meant was that I appreciate the option of entering math using MathML, but it should not be the only way. Marco -- Marco Kuhlmann marco.kuhlmann@gmx.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-15 15:55 ` Hans Hagen 2001-11-19 11:54 ` Marco Kuhlmann @ 2001-11-19 15:38 ` Taco Hoekwater 2001-11-20 8:23 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2001-11-19 15:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: marco.kuhlmann, ntg-context For Marco: % start demo.tex \usemodule[mathml] \starttext This \startXMLdata <math><apply><plus/><mn>1</mn><mn>2</mn></apply></math> \stopXMLdata That $1+2$ \stoptext % end demo.tex -- groeten, Taco ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site) 2001-11-19 15:38 ` Taco Hoekwater @ 2001-11-20 8:23 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2001-11-20 8:23 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: marco.kuhlmann, ntg-context At 04:38 PM 11/19/2001 +0100, Taco Hoekwater wrote: >For Marco: >% start demo.tex >\usemodule[mathml] > >\starttext >This >\startXMLdata > <math><apply><plus/><mn>1</mn><mn>2</mn></apply></math> >\stopXMLdata > >That $1+2$ > >\stoptext >% end demo.tex <cn>1</cn>... is more in tune with the content math wrapper "apply" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-11-20 8:23 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2001-11-13 21:11 web site Hans Hagen 2001-11-13 22:49 ` Marco Kuhlmann 2001-11-14 11:38 ` Math module (Re[2]: web site) Giuseppe Bilotta 2001-11-14 12:55 ` Hans Hagen 2001-11-14 16:25 ` Re[2]: " Giuseppe Bilotta 2001-11-14 16:53 ` Hans Hagen 2001-11-15 12:23 ` Re[3]: " Giuseppe Bilotta 2001-11-15 14:07 ` Marco Kuhlmann 2001-11-15 15:55 ` Hans Hagen 2001-11-19 11:54 ` Marco Kuhlmann 2001-11-19 15:38 ` Taco Hoekwater 2001-11-20 8:23 ` Hans Hagen
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