From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/11381 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jens-Uwe Morawski Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Re: Fonts again in ConTeXt Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:35:55 +0100 Sender: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl Message-ID: <20030312203555.33fb7c93.morawski@gmx.net> References: <03031214263404.11186@mondriaan> <03031214263404.11186@mondriaan> <5.1.0.14.1.20030312160932.024c08e8@server-1> <87fzps615f.fsf@gundla.ch> Reply-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1047497416 3985 80.91.224.249 (12 Mar 2003 19:30:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:30:16 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl Wed Mar 12 20:30:11 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from ref.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.13] helo=ref.ntg.nl) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18tBvX-00011s-00 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:30:11 +0100 Original-Received: from ref.ntg.nl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ref.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A693410B12; Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:30:53 +0100 (MET) Original-Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by ref.ntg.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 3379210AE7 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:28:29 +0100 (MET) Original-Received: (qmail 22361 invoked by uid 0); 12 Mar 2003 19:28:28 -0000 Original-Received: from port1489.fra.ginko.net (HELO melior.localdomain) (212.202.67.219) by mail.gmx.net (mp019-rz3) with SMTP; 12 Mar 2003 19:28:28 -0000 Original-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl In-Reply-To: <87fzps615f.fsf@gundla.ch> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.9 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Errors-To: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:11381 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.context:11381 On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:43:40 +0100 Patrick Gundlach wrote: > > At 03:05 PM 3/12/2003 +0100, you wrote: > > > >>Well, in my opinion, the berry typesript is sub-optimal, since it > >>maps to the urw variants that are a) shipped with a few TeX systems only > >>and b) (even worse) the urw variant helvetica (nimbus sans) is of no > >>real use for the german people out there (broken germandbls). > > > > then, how many people do have the adobe palatino's? > > None that I know of. But this is IMHO irelevant: the current TeX > practice is: No. No. > 1) TeX macro package (aka LaTeX ;-) asks for "Adobe Helvetica", it > gets the font metrics from "phv....tfm". Then, in the map files > the users decides whether to use the original adobe fonts or the > substitues. the MAP-file is a nice place for the real font selection. How should i tell "normal" users that their font-selection from the document is overwriten since some stupid and wrong decisions have been made in the past. > 2) TeX macro package (aka ConTeXt ;-) asks for "URW Nimbus Sans" > a) on TeXlive (and perhaps any other I don't kown of) it gets the > metrics from "uhv....tfm". Then, in the map files the user has > no choice; the dvi/pdf driver should take Nimbus Sans. that's correct, since *it is* URW... > I think it is wrong behaviour to explicitly ask for the substitution it's no substitution, it is the font that is ask for. You asks for URW and you get URW. Simple, isn't it? The way the psnfss works is wrong, since one asks for Adobe and gets URW. Please read some threads in the PDFTeX-ML and you can see what confusion this creates. > and leave the user no choice about which variant (adobe, urw) to use. The choice is made with a new typescript. This is the common procedure when a new font is installed. So, if you have Adobe Palatino then install it as you did for other fonnts too. But, stop! Sorry, there are always entries in the current pdfTeX MAP-file that map your Adobe fonts back to URW variants. So, first you to have edit the MAP-file. No, no you cannot use \loadmapfile since it does not overwrite the wrong psnfss settings. Nice way to fool many users. Many thanks. ;) Thus, include a new typescript in the ConTeXt core that maps to the Adobe names, but please don't support these wrong decisions of the past. Additionally, please don't name the typescript "Adobe....", since it is only Adobe if you have the fonts installed. "psnfss" is a good name: PS-Names-Fooling-Suitable-Setup. For real Adobe fonts everybody should be able to write proper typescripts. Regards, Jens