From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/13378 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Adam Lindsay" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: fourier Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:30:15 +0100 Sender: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl Message-ID: <20030919143015.28238@news.comp.lancs.ac.uk> References: <5.2.0.9.1.20030919134352.020162b0@server-1> Reply-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1063982218 6595 80.91.224.253 (19 Sep 2003 14:36:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:36:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Michel Bovani" Original-X-From: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl Fri Sep 19 16:36:56 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from ref.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.13] helo=ref.ntg.nl) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A0MNU-0003jq-00 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:36:56 +0200 Original-Received: from ref.ntg.nl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ref.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A2B10B76; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:36:48 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: from mail.comp.lancs.ac.uk (mail.comp.lancs.ac.uk [148.88.3.45]) by ref.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5CFA10B34 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:30:45 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: from [148.88.240.86] (dyn056.dhcp.lancs.ac.uk [148.88.240.86]) by mail.comp.lancs.ac.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8JEUfHv017556; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:30:43 +0100 (BST) Original-To: , "Hans Hagen" In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.1.20030919134352.020162b0@server-1> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.2 us Carbon Errors-To: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:13378 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.context:13378 Hans Hagen said this at Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:54:46 +0200: >i.e. we don't need the -Expert here because it can live in a typeface; but >how to deal with Black and Semi? And Light? (and ExtraLight and ExtraBlack?) Hmm. You're asking us? I always assumed, since I came to the ConTeXt game relatively late, that it was a conscious choice to make only two weights available at once. Typographically, it mostly makes sense not to mix Regular with SemiBold and Bold in text, so I didn't argue with that. However, I realise others will point out that SemiBold could be very useful in headings and other areas outside the normal text flow. Likewise with the other weights. Plus, many of these weights are somewhat intended by their designers to be contrasted with one another, like Light+SemiBold, Regular+Bold, SemiBold+ExtraBold. So one way could be to keep the [Serif] [SerifBold] [SerifSemiBold] [SerifLight] synonyms around, and selectively sub-set them and associate the with \tf and \bf as appropriate. It could be taken further, as Michel has done, to make all four accessible at once, with tf, db, bf, and eb. ...but then you run into people who want to accommodate a fifth and sixth weight. (I would also prefer to break small caps out as a separate design axis for faces in general, and not be tied to the notion that SerifSemiCaps is possible, but SerifItalicCaps is not. Side issue.) However, this list: [Serif] [SerifSlanted] [SerifItalic] [SerifCaps] [SerifSemiBold] [SerifSemiSlanted] [SerifSemiItalic] [SerifSemiCaps] %[SerifCapsSemi] ?? [SerifBold] [SerifBoldSlanted] [SerifBoldItalic] %[SerifCapsBold] ?? [SerifBlack] Looks reasonably well-named, as far as it goes, if that's the question. When dealing with the Adobe OpenType Pro font sets, I named a subset of them SerifCapsBold, etc. within their own family (rc), parallel to the Serif (rm) family. There's also the issue of the optical size axis (Caption, Text, Subhead, Display), but I think that can be sufficiently handled within size mappings. For interest, here's an except from my treatment of weight x shape x caps x size: \starttypescript [serif] [Opticals] [size] \definebodyfont [12pt,11pt][rm] [tf=SerifText sa 1, tfa=SerifSubhead sa \magfactor1, tfb=SerifSubhead sa \magfactor2, tfc=SerifSubhead sa \magfactor3, tfd=SerifDisplay sa \magfactor4, bf=SerifBoldText sa 1, bfa=SerifBoldSubhead sa \magfactor1, bfb=SerifBoldSubhead sa \magfactor2, bfc=SerifBoldSubhead sa \magfactor3, bfd=SerifBoldDisplay sa \magfactor4, it=SerifItalicText sa 1, ita=SerifItalicSubhead sa \magfactor1, itb=SerifItalicSubhead sa \magfactor2, itc=SerifItalicSubhead sa \magfactor3, itd=SerifItalicDisplay sa \magfactor4, bi=SerifBoldItalicText sa 1, bia=SerifBoldItalicSubhead sa \magfactor1, bib=SerifBoldItalicSubhead sa \magfactor2, bic=SerifBoldItalicSubhead sa \magfactor3, bid=SerifBoldItalicDisplay sa \magfactor4, sc=SerifCapsText sa 1, sca=SerifCapsSubhead sa \magfactor1, scb=SerifCapsSubhead sa \magfactor2, scc=SerifCapsSubhead sa \magfactor3, scd=SerifCapsDisplay sa \magfactor4] \definebodyfont [12pt,11pt][rc] [tf=SerifCapsText sa 1, tfa=SerifCapsSubhead sa \magfactor1, tfb=SerifCapsSubhead sa \magfactor2, tfc=SerifCapsSubhead sa \magfactor3, tfd=SerifCapsDisplay sa \magfactor4, bf=SerifCapsBoldText sa 1, bfa=SerifCapsBoldSubhead sa \magfactor1, bfb=SerifCapsBoldSubhead sa \magfactor2, bfc=SerifCapsBoldSubhead sa \magfactor3, bfd=SerifCapsBoldDisplay sa \magfactor4, it=SerifCapsItalicText sa 1, ita=SerifCapsItalicSubhead sa \magfactor1, itb=SerifCapsItalicSubhead sa \magfactor2, itc=SerifCapsItalicSubhead sa \magfactor3, itd=SerifCapsItalicDisplay sa \magfactor4, bi=SerifCapsBoldItalicText sa 1, bia=SerifCapsBoldItalicSubhead sa \magfactor1, bib=SerifCapsBoldItalicSubhead sa \magfactor2, bic=SerifCapsBoldItalicSubhead sa \magfactor3, bid=SerifCapsBoldItalicDisplay sa \magfactor4] \stoptypescript It's tough: you can easily come up with 100+ styles for a single font, very legitimately, which suggests that perhaps a stricter parameterisation could be useful: 3 upright vs italic vs slanted (+ upright italic?) 4 or 5 weights 2 roman vs caps (or oldstyle, other variants) x 4 optical sizes --- 96+ variations yow. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Adam T. Lindsay atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk Computing Dept, Lancaster University +44(0)1524/594.537 Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/593.608 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-