Problems with left and right

Problems with left and right

[Matt Gushee]

Hello--

I have noticed a couple of cases where ConTeXt macros seem to have
confused left and right sides:

 1) I want to format some text in two columns, where the left column
    is right-aligned and the right column is left-aligned. I found I
    had to do this:

      \defineparagraphs
        [ingredient]
        [n=2, before={\blank[small]},after={\blank[small]}]
      \setupparagraphs
        [ingredient] [1] 
        [width=.16\textwidth,align=left,style=bold]

 2) In order to format format headers for a book so that the book title
    appears on the left-hand page and the section title on the right, I
    had to do this:

      \setupheadertexts [] [section] [title] []

    ... which, as I read the documentation, is in the opposite order to
    what it should be.

Is this a bug in ConTeXt, or have I misconfigured something?

-- 
Matt Gushee                 When a nation follows the Way,
Englewood, Colorado, USA    Horses bear manure through
mgushee@havenrock.com           its fields;
http://www.havenrock.com/   When a nation ignores the Way,
                            Horses bear soldiers through
                                its streets.
                                
                            --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.)

Re: Problems with left and right, Part II

[Matt Gushee]

On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 01:19:57PM -0600, Matt Gushee wrote:
> 
> I have noticed a couple of cases where ConTeXt macros seem to have
> confused left and right sides:

Just found another:

  \setuphead [title] [align=right]

places the title on the left side, and vice versa.

I have also confirmed that this takes place on both machines where I
have ConTeXt installed, so it's unlikely to be caused by anything I did.

-- 
Matt Gushee                 When a nation follows the Way,
Englewood, Colorado, USA    Horses bear manure through
mgushee@havenrock.com           its fields;
http://www.havenrock.com/   When a nation ignores the Way,
                            Horses bear soldiers through
                                its streets.
                                
                            --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.)

Re: Problems with left and right

[Hans Hagen Outside]

Matt Gushee wrote:

>Hello--
>
>I have noticed a couple of cases where ConTeXt macros seem to have
>confused left and right sides:
>
> 1) I want to format some text in two columns, where the left column
>    is right-aligned and the right column is left-aligned. I found I
>    had to do this:
>
>      \defineparagraphs
>        [ingredient]
>        [n=2, before={\blank[small]},after={\blank[small]}]
>      \setupparagraphs
>        [ingredient] [1] 
>        [width=.16\textwidth,align=left,style=bold]
>  
>
nowadays, using \starttabulate[|pl|pr|] is the prefered way

forthermore, think of right as raggedright

> 2) In order to format format headers for a book so that the book title
>    appears on the left-hand page and the section title on the right, I
>    had to do this:
>
>      \setupheadertexts [] [section] [title] []
>
>    ... which, as I read the documentation, is in the opposite order to
>    what it should be.
>
>Is this a bug in ConTeXt, or have I misconfigured something?
>  
>
no, think of spreads

Hans 

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              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: Problems with left and right

[Matt Gushee]

On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:26:45PM -0700, Hans Hagen Outside wrote:
> >
> >I have noticed a couple of cases where ConTeXt macros seem to have
> >confused left and right sides:

First of all, thanks for your quick reply!

> forthermore, think of right as raggedright

And left as ... raggedleft? 

Anyway, I gather you're saying that the behavior I've observed is
correct. E.g.:

     [align=left]  [align=right]

              abc  foo, bar, baz
               de  dum-da-dum-da-dummmmm
          fghijkl  tweedledee

With all due respect, I don't see how that makes any sense. In common
English usage, left-aligned means the text is set against the left edge,
and right-aligned means the text is set against the right edge. I can't
imagine Dutch or other European languages are very different in that
respect (though I've been known to guess wrong about languages).
Furthermore, this usage of 'align=<side>' is inconsistent with some
other things in ConTeXt, such as \rightaligned, which behaves as I would
expect it to. 

> 
> >2) In order to format format headers for a book so that the book title
> >   appears on the left-hand page and the section title on the right, I
> >   had to do this:
> >
> >     \setupheadertexts [] [section] [title] []
> >
> >   ... which, as I read the documentation, is in the opposite order to
> >   what it should be.
> >
> >Is this a bug in ConTeXt, or have I misconfigured something?
> > 
> >
> no, think of spreads

You mean page spreads? Like this?

     +----------------+----------------+
     |                |                |
     |   even-        |   odd-         |
     |   numbered     |   numbered     |
     |   page         |   page         |
     |                |                |
     +----------------+----------------+

That's exactly what I was already thinking of, and it doesn't make
sense:

  COMMAND:    \setupheadertexts [] [section] [title] []

  RESULT:     +--------------------+--------------------+
              | <title>            |          <section> |
              |                    |                    |
              |                    |                    |
              |                    |                    |
              |                    |                    |
              +--------------------+--------------------+

If you say there's a logical explanation for this, then I believe you. I
still maintain it's really counterintuitive and likely to cause
confusion. And if so, aren't you making extra work for yourself (because
you have to explain it)? Or is it just me?
    
-- 
Matt Gushee                 When a nation follows the Way,
Englewood, Colorado, USA    Horses bear manure through
mgushee@havenrock.com           its fields;
http://www.havenrock.com/   When a nation ignores the Way,
                            Horses bear soldiers through
                                its streets.
                                
                            --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.)

Re: Problems with left and right

[Peter Münster]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004, Matt Gushee wrote:

>   COMMAND:    \setupheadertexts [] [section] [title] []
> 
>   RESULT:     +--------------------+--------------------+
>               | <title>            |          <section> |
>               |                    |                    |
>               |                    |                    |
>               |                    |                    |
>               |                    |                    |
>               +--------------------+--------------------+
> 
> If you say there's a logical explanation for this, then I believe you.

Hello Matt,
isn't it logical, if you consider
\setupheadertexts [odd-left] [odd-right] [even-left] [even-right] ?
Cheers, Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
_____________________________________
FilmSearch engine: http://f-s.sf.net/

Re: Problems with left and right

[Matt Gushee]

On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 10:39:52AM +0200, Peter Münster wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jul 2004, Matt Gushee wrote:
> 
> >   COMMAND:    \setupheadertexts [] [section] [title] []
> > 
> >   RESULT:     +--------------------+--------------------+
> >               | <title>            |          <section> |
> >               |                    |                    |
> > 
> > If you say there's a logical explanation for this, then I believe you.
> 
> Hello Matt,
> isn't it logical, if you consider
> \setupheadertexts [odd-left] [odd-right] [even-left] [even-right] ?

Please explain why I should consider it that way. Most books in every
language I know of[*] are laid out with the even page on the left and
the odd page on the right. Furthermore, the ConTeXt manual says:

  Those who want more variations in headers and footers can use four
  instead of two arguments ....

    \setupfootertexts [even left] [even right] [odd left] [odd right]

So the order of arguments contradicts both the documentation and what I
think of as common sense.


NOTES:

* There are exceptions, of course. Other than English, languages I am
  familiar with are mainly Chinese and Japanese. Traditional books in
  those languages are laid out in the opposite direction to European
  books, but almost all contemporary books in China, and I think most in
  Japan, follow the Western practice. Besides, we're all gwailos here,
  aren't we?

-- 
Matt Gushee                 When a nation follows the Way,
Englewood, Colorado, USA    Horses bear manure through
mgushee@havenrock.com           its fields;
http://www.havenrock.com/   When a nation ignores the Way,
                            Horses bear soldiers through
                                its streets.
                                
                            --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.)

Re: Problems with left and right

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 24.07.2004 um 17:22 schrieb Matt Gushee:

>> \setupheadertexts [odd-left] [odd-right] [even-left] [even-right] ?
> Please explain why I should consider it that way. Most books in every

If you use a single page layout you need only the first two parameters;
and normally one designs right (odd) pages first.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Re: Problems with left and right

[Patrick Gundlach]

[...]


> Furthermore, this usage of 'align=<side>' is inconsistent with some
> other things in ConTeXt, such as \rightaligned, which behaves as I
> would expect it to.


I really wish that this align=wrong would change. Isn't there a
switch for that?

Patrick
-- 
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
texshow-web:  http://texshow.contextgarden.net

Re: Re: Problems with left and right

[Hans Hagen Outside]

Patrick Gundlach wrote:

>[...]
>
>
>  
>
>>Furthermore, this usage of 'align=<side>' is inconsistent with some
>>other things in ConTeXt, such as \rightaligned, which behaves as I
>>would expect it to.
>>    
>>
>
>
>I really wish that this align=wrong would change. Isn't there a
>switch for that?
>  
>
you may try: \@@asraggedfalse -) 

but that only partially works 

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------