2 m-bib questions

2 m-bib questions

[Peter Münster]

Hello,

here my m-bib questions:

* The lost space after \cite[...], is it a bug or a feature?

* I'm going to add some multi-lingual support to m-bib. My idea is, to
  replace in cont-XX.bst and bibl-XXX.tex "page" by "\pagename", "and" by
  "\andname" and so on. Is this method ok? If not, how should I do it (not
  too complicated please ;) ?

Cheers, Peter

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Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Brooks Moses]

At 10:25 AM 8/8/2004, you wrote:
>* I'm going to add some multi-lingual support to m-bib. My idea is, to
>   replace in cont-XX.bst and bibl-XXX.tex "page" by "\pagename", "and" by
>   "\andname" and so on. Is this method ok? If not, how should I do it (not
>   too complicated please ;) ?

One problem with that method is that those names seem relatively common, 
and thus likely to lead to conflicts in the future.

I would thus suggest \bibitempagename, \bibitemandname, and 
similar.  (Since ConTeXt allows "!" in macro names, maybe 
\bibitem!pagename, \bibitem!andname, and so forth would be more readable.)

- Brooks

Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Hans Hagen]

Brooks Moses wrote:

> At 10:25 AM 8/8/2004, you wrote:
>
>> * I'm going to add some multi-lingual support to m-bib. My idea is, to
>>   replace in cont-XX.bst and bibl-XXX.tex "page" by "\pagename", 
>> "and" by
>>   "\andname" and so on. Is this method ok? If not, how should I do it 
>> (not
>>   too complicated please ;) ?
>
>
> One problem with that method is that those names seem relatively 
> common, and thus likely to lead to conflicts in the future.
>
> I would thus suggest \bibitempagename, \bibitemandname, and similar.  
> (Since ConTeXt allows "!" in macro names, maybe \bibitem!pagename, 
> \bibitem!andname, and so forth would be more readable.)

\starttext

\labeltext{page}

\setuplabeltext[nl][page=xxx] \mainlanguage[nl] \labeltext{page}

\stoptext

so, best do something like: 

\setuplabeltext[nl][bib-page=whatever] with \labeltext{bib-page} 

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Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Taco Hoekwater]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:25:27 +0200 (CEST), Peter wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> here my m-bib questions:
> 
> * The lost space after \cite[...], is it a bug or a feature?

It is unintentional, and I will try to fix that behaviour in the future.
 
> * I'm going to add some multi-lingual support to m-bib. My idea is, to
>   replace in cont-XX.bst and bibl-XXX.tex "page" by "\pagename", "and" by
>   "\andname" and so on. Is this method ok? If not, how should I do it (not
>   too complicated please ;) ?

Brooks and Hans both gave solutions that do not work all too well
(because of combinatory explosion: conseptually there is a distinct 
'before-before', 'after-before', 'before-after', 'after-after', and 'not-found' 
text -- that depends on the current language -- for each and every one 
of the nodes in the nested  tree that represents a bibliographic item).

The best 'easy' solution I can think of is: copy the bibl-xxx.tex file
you want to a different name (like bibl-apa-de.tex), then change the
text within it on the spot, without any macro replacements whatsoever.

My next release will support something like 

	\setuppublications[style=apa,
                                  language=de]

so from then on, the problem will be hidden from the casual user.

BTW: If in your version the BST files still contain actual text, you should
download a newer version from http://tex.aanhet.net/bib .

-- 
groeten,

Taco

Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Peter Münster]

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On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> > * The lost space after \cite[...], is it a bug or a feature?
> 
> It is unintentional, and I will try to fix that behaviour in the future.

Ok, thanks.


> The best 'easy' solution I can think of is: copy the bibl-xxx.tex file
> you want to a different name (like bibl-apa-de.tex), then change the
> text within it on the spot, without any macro replacements whatsoever.
> 
> My next release will support something like 
> 
> 	\setuppublications[style=apa,
>                                   language=de]

Oh, your message came a little bit too late for me... :(
I've just finished to add some German support to bibl-apa.tex and cont-au.bst.
I attache a zip-file with my modification for the case you're interested.

> BTW: If in your version the BST files still contain actual text, you should
> download a newer version from http://tex.aanhet.net/bib .

I have the newest version, but cont-au.tex has still an " and ".

Cheers and thank you for your package!
Peter

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Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Taco Hoekwater]

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:26:26 +0200 (CEST), Peter wrote:

> > BTW: If in your version the BST files still contain actual text, you should
> > download a newer version from http://tex.aanhet.net/bib .
> 
> I have the newest version, but cont-au.tex has still an " and ".

Ok, saw it. I will correct that in a future release as well.


-- 
groeten,

Taco

Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:25:27 +0200 (CEST), Peter wrote:
> 
> > * The lost space after \cite[...], is it a bug or a feature?
> 
> It is unintentional, and I will try to fix that behaviour in the future.

Hello Taco,
it seems that the bug is still there. After quite some time of
investigation, here comes my workaround:

\usemodule[bib]
\let\citeO\cite% original cite command
\unprotect
\def\cite{\bgroup
  \def\inspectnextcharacter{% removed treatment of blanks
    \ifx\nexttoken\charactertoken
      \@EAEAEA\!!stringa
    \else
      \@EAEAEA\!!stringb
    \fi}%
  \dodoubleempty\doMyCite}
\def\doMyCite[#1][#2]{%
  \ifsecondargument\gdef\@SecondArgument{y}\else\gdef\@SecondArgument{n}\fi
  \egroup
  \doifelse\@SecondArgument{y}{\citeO[#1][#2]}{\citeO[#1]\relax}}
\protect
\starttext
bla \cite[options][key1] bla \cite[key2] bla
\placepublications
\stoptext

I think there are other commands with that behaviour, but I don't remember
which ones...

Cheers, Peter

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Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Taco Hoekwater]

Peter Münster wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:25:27 +0200 (CEST), Peter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>* The lost space after \cite[...], is it a bug or a feature?
>>
>>It is unintentional, and I will try to fix that behaviour in the future.
> 
> 
> I think there are other commands with that behaviour, but I don't remember
> which ones...

\at and \in,

Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Peter Münster]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> > I think there are other commands with that behaviour, but I don't remember
> > which ones...
> 
> \at and \in,

Are you sure? I don't see it:
\starttext
\section{first}
\section[sec2]{second}
bla \at[sec2] bla \in[sec2] bla

bla \at{xxx}[sec2] bla \in{xxx}[sec2] bla

bla \at{xxx}{yyy}[sec2] bla \in{xxx}{yyy}[sec2] bla
\stoptext

Greetings, Peter

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Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi Peter,

I thought they did, but was I wrong, thanks for testing and your patch.
I was in a real real hurry when I posted my reply, and still I have no
time right now, but I can do a fast question: does your fixed version
allow latex-style citations like this:

   \cite{article-crossref}

That format has to be supported because it is often used within .BIB
files.

Cheers and Thanks again,
Taco

Peter Münster wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> 
> 
>>>I think there are other commands with that behaviour, but I don't remember
>>>which ones...
>>
>>\at and \in,
> 
> 
> Are you sure? I don't see it:
> \starttext
> \section{first}
> \section[sec2]{second}
> bla \at[sec2] bla \in[sec2] bla
> 
> bla \at{xxx}[sec2] bla \in{xxx}[sec2] bla
> 
> bla \at{xxx}{yyy}[sec2] bla \in{xxx}{yyy}[sec2] bla
> \stoptext
> 
> Greetings, Peter
> 

Re: 2 m-bib questions

[Peter Münster]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> does your fixed version allow latex-style citations like this:
> 
>    \cite{article-crossref}
> 
> That format has to be supported because it is often used within .BIB
> files.

Hi Taco,
I use your latest beta.
The first thing I tested, was just \cite{key}, and since I got an error:
Runaway argument?
 bla \placepublications \stoptext 
! File ended while scanning use of \docite.
<inserted text> 
                \par 
<*> &cont-en test.tex

I thought, that this format was no more supported.

But if you need to support also \cite{key} and \cite[options]{key}, then
the space problem would be solved anyway: just drop the \cite[] and
\cite[][] syntax, I don't see any need for this (just backward
compatibility perhaps?).
The space problem occurs whenever you do
\def\Command{\dodoubleempty\doCommand}
\def\doCommand[#1][#2]{....}
but not with
\def\Command{\dosingleempty\doCommand}
\def\doCommand[#1]#2{....}

Cheers and thanks for your great module!
Peter

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