Black generation in cmyk output

Black generation in cmyk output

[Piotr Kopszak]

Hello, 

I was wondering if it is possible to influence the level of black
component generation in cmyk ConTeXt output? 

Piotr


-- 
   Piotr Kopszak, Ph.D.          
   Polish Art Gallery, National Museum in Warsaw    
   ----------------------------->    http://kopszak.mnw.art.pl/
   http://www.magnatune.com/artists/altri_stromenti

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,

Piotr Kopszak wrote:
> Hello, 
> 
> I was wondering if it is possible to influence the level of black
> component generation in cmyk ConTeXt output? 

In the automatic conversion of metapost you mean? Well, you can turn black 
generation on (\setupcolors[reduce=no]) or turn it off ([reduce=yes]) ...

There is no way to control the *amount* of black generation, but you
can of course define your own CMYK colors with an appropriate K component.

I hope I understood your question correctly.

Greetings, Taco

Tex Live 2004 + context

[Ciro A. Soto]

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Today I was about to install TeX Live 2003, to then install Context lastest
release. But I found that Tex Live 2004 was released the 27th (3 days ago).
I notice the texmf directory structure has been changed in 2004. What do you guys recommend?   2003+context?  Or is the latest context installation compatible
with the new TeXLive2004 texmf directory? Please advise.
 
Ciro


==================
Ciro A. Soto
"All problems are at the interface. Each one of them has a solution."

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Re: Tex Live 2004 + context

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> Today I was about to install TeX Live 2003, to then install Context
> lastest release. But I found that Tex Live 2004 was released the
> 27th (3 days ago). I notice the texmf directory structure has been
> changed in 2004. What do you guys recommend? 2003+context? Or is the
> latest context installation compatible with the new TeXLive2004
> texmf directory? Please advise.

I'd say: new ConTeXt = new TeX distribution, old ConTeXt = old TeX
distribution.

What operating system are you using?

See also in the wiki: http://contextgarden.net/Update_Hints

Patrick
-- 
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net

Re: Re: Tex Live 2004 + context

[Ciro A. Soto]

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I am using linux Fedora Core 3. It came with a *very* old tex installation with
context version 2003. If I understand your advice, I should use texlive2003
and the latest context from last week upload in pragma?
thank you 

Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch> wrote:
Hi,

> Today I was about to install TeX Live 2003, to then install Context
> lastest release. But I found that Tex Live 2004 was released the
> 27th (3 days ago). I notice the texmf directory structure has been
> changed in 2004. What do you guys recommend? 2003+context? Or is the
> latest context installation compatible with the new TeXLive2004
> texmf directory? Please advise.

I'd say: new ConTeXt = new TeX distribution, old ConTeXt = old TeX
distribution.

What operating system are you using?

See also in the wiki: http://contextgarden.net/Update_Hints

Patrick
-- 
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
_______________________________________________
ntg-context mailing list
ntg-context@ntg.nl
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==================
Ciro A. Soto
"All problems are at the interface. Each one of them has a solution."

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Re: Tex Live 2004 + context

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello Ciro,

> I am using linux Fedora Core 3. It came with a *very* old tex installation with
> context version 2003. If I understand your advice, I should use texlive2003
> and the latest context from last week upload in pragma?

No, something more recent then texlive 2003. Perhaps texlive 2004 (out
already?) or a current tetex beta. That is what I use at
contextgarden.net

> thank you 

You're welcome.

Patrick

-- 
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net

Re: Re: Tex Live 2004 + context

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,

I have texlive 2004 now, with the very latest context and the latest
pdftex from pdftex.sarovar.org. The tetex beta is a smaller download and 
integrates reasonably well with your linux distro but perhaps requiring 
you to donwload things from CTAN yourself, texlive is more standalone 
but also much bigger.

Don't install TeXLive2003 anymore unless you have no other options.

Greetings, Taco

> No, something more recent then texlive 2003. Perhaps texlive 2004 (out
> already?) or a current tetex beta. That is what I use at
> contextgarden.net
> 
> > thank you 
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> Patrick
> 
> -- 
> ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Re: Re: Tex Live 2004 + context

[VnPenguin]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:52:35 -0800 (PST), Ciro A. Soto
<cirosoto@ameritech.net> wrote:
> 
> I am using linux Fedora Core 3. It came with a *very* old tex installation
> with 
> context version 2003. If I understand your advice, I should use texlive2003 
> and the latest context from last week upload in pragma? 
> thank you 

I'm FC3 user too. Just updated pdftex (Han The Thanh src, 24/Nov/2004)
and latest ConTeXt. There are some points to modify for installation
folders to adapt teTeX's structure, but it's not so difficult to do. I
have a summary at our forum
(http://vnoss.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=506 , sorry, in vietnamese!).

Thank to Adam & Hans, now I could use Vietnamese UTF8 with ConTeXt, very cool !

Regards,
Quy NGUYEN-DAI

Re: Re: Tex Live 2004 + context

[Adam Lindsay]

VnPenguin said this at Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:22:44 +0100:

>On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:52:35 -0800 (PST), Ciro A. Soto
><cirosoto@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I am using linux Fedora Core 3. It came with a *very* old tex installation
>> with 
>> context version 2003. If I understand your advice, I should use
texlive2003 
>> and the latest context from last week upload in pragma? 
>> thank you 
>
>I'm FC3 user too. Just updated pdftex (Han The Thanh src, 24/Nov/2004)
>and latest ConTeXt. There are some points to modify for installation
>folders to adapt teTeX's structure, but it's not so difficult to do. I
>have a summary at our forum
>(http://vnoss.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=506 , sorry, in vietnamese!).
>
>Thank to Adam & Hans, now I could use Vietnamese UTF8 with ConTeXt, very
>cool !

Glad it works for real!
Would you mind adding to the wiki a link (with appropriate VN text) to
that forum page? Even better would be figuring out how to add the VN
translation, and then expanding the documentation further.

Linking to the test doc on the wiki would also be a help!

adam
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: Re: Tex Live 2004 + context

[VnPenguin]

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:39:15 +0000, Adam Lindsay <atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> Glad it works for real!
> Would you mind adding to the wiki a link (with appropriate VN text) to
> that forum page? Even better would be figuring out how to add the VN
> translation, and then expanding the documentation further.
> 
> Linking to the test doc on the wiki would also be a help!

Sure, I'll add to wiki page soon.
Regards,
Quy NGUYEN-DAI

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Piotr Kopszak]

On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 04:22:38PM +0100, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Piotr Kopszak wrote:
> >Hello, 
> >
> >I was wondering if it is possible to influence the level of black
> >component generation in cmyk ConTeXt output? 
> 
> In the automatic conversion of metapost you mean? Well, you can turn black 
> generation on (\setupcolors[reduce=no]) or turn it off ([reduce=yes]) ...
> 
> There is no way to control the *amount* of black generation, but you
> can of course define your own CMYK colors with an appropriate K component.
> 
> I hope I understood your question correctly.
> 
> Greetings, Taco

Sorry for imprecise question. I meant black generation in rgb images
in JPG format included in document. If it's not possible to control
the amount of black in that case I'd like to use cmyk JPG images, but
will they be left untouched by the colour conversion mechanism?  

Piotr

-- 
   Piotr Kopszak, Ph.D.          
   Polish Art Gallery, National Museum in Warsaw    
   ----------------------------->    http://kopszak.mnw.art.pl/
   http://www.magnatune.com/artists/altri_stromenti

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 01.12.2004 um 15:19 schrieb Piotr Kopszak:
> Sorry for imprecise question. I meant black generation in rgb images
> in JPG format included in document. If it's not possible to control
> the amount of black in that case I'd like to use cmyk JPG images, but
> will they be left untouched by the colour conversion mechanism?

AFAIK ConTeXt doesn't touch pixel images at all - that would be a 
rather complicated task, perhaps using little_cms or GIMP libraries or 
the like...


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Hans Hagen]

Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Am 01.12.2004 um 15:19 schrieb Piotr Kopszak:
> 
>> Sorry for imprecise question. I meant black generation in rgb images
>> in JPG format included in document. If it's not possible to control
>> the amount of black in that case I'd like to use cmyk JPG images, but
>> will they be left untouched by the colour conversion mechanism?
> 
> 
> AFAIK ConTeXt doesn't touch pixel images at all - that would be a rather 
> complicated task, perhaps using little_cms or GIMP libraries or the like...

indeed, however, you may expect some manipulations without touching the bitmap, 
like runtime turning gray scales into spot colors and duotones; i have something 
running here for half a year now but i recently moved the code into the kernel

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Piotr Kopszak]

On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:52:09PM +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> >Am 01.12.2004 um 15:19 schrieb Piotr Kopszak:
> >
> >>Sorry for imprecise question. I meant black generation in rgb images
> >>in JPG format included in document. If it's not possible to control
> >>the amount of black in that case I'd like to use cmyk JPG images, but
> >>will they be left untouched by the colour conversion mechanism?
> >
> >
> >AFAIK ConTeXt doesn't touch pixel images at all - that would be a rather 
> >complicated task, perhaps using little_cms or GIMP libraries or the like...
> 
> indeed, however, you may expect some manipulations without touching the 
> bitmap, like runtime turning gray scales into spot colors and duotones; i 
> have something running here for half a year now but i recently moved the 
> code into the kernel
> 
> Hans

Right, but what exactly happens with included rgb bitmaps 
when I use: 

\setupcolors[state=start,cmyk=yes,rgb=no] 

Will they be left in rgb? 

Piotr



-- 
   Piotr Kopszak, Ph.D.          
   Polish Art Gallery, National Museum in Warsaw    
   ----------------------------->    http://kopszak.mnw.art.pl/
   http://www.magnatune.com/artists/altri_stromenti

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Hans Hagen]

Piotr Kopszak wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 05:52:09PM +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
>>Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>>
>>>Am 01.12.2004 um 15:19 schrieb Piotr Kopszak:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sorry for imprecise question. I meant black generation in rgb images
>>>>in JPG format included in document. If it's not possible to control
>>>>the amount of black in that case I'd like to use cmyk JPG images, but
>>>>will they be left untouched by the colour conversion mechanism?
>>>
>>>
>>>AFAIK ConTeXt doesn't touch pixel images at all - that would be a rather 
>>>complicated task, perhaps using little_cms or GIMP libraries or the like...
>>
>>indeed, however, you may expect some manipulations without touching the 
>>bitmap, like runtime turning gray scales into spot colors and duotones; i 
>>have something running here for half a year now but i recently moved the 
>>code into the kernel
>>
>>Hans
> 
> 
> Right, but what exactly happens with included rgb bitmaps 
> when I use: 
> 
> \setupcolors[state=start,cmyk=yes,rgb=no] 
> 
> Will they be left in rgb? 

bitmaps will not be touched by context, so they will stay rgb (i'm currently 
cleaning up some figure postprocessign code, so meybe that end up in the 
distribution)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Taco Hoekwater]

Just curious: why do you need a cmyk pdf document? I'm asking because the 
requirement often implies that you are using a less-than-modern printing 
house. If that is the case, you may be better off using PostScript instead 
of PDF.

Greetings, Taco

Piotr Kopszak wrote:
> Right, but what exactly happens with included rgb bitmaps 
> when I use: 
> 
> \setupcolors[state=start,cmyk=yes,rgb=no] 
> 
> Will they be left in rgb? 

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Christopher Creutzig]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> Just curious: why do you need a cmyk pdf document? I'm asking because 
> the requirement often implies that you are using a less-than-modern 
> printing house. If that is the case, you may be better off using 
> PostScript instead of PDF.

  Last time I prepared a file for Springer Heidelberg, they explicitly 
wanted a cmyk pdf file, too.  I have no idea what printing house they 
contacted.  I ended up converting those images to appear in color into 
cmyk jpegs in Photoshop (next time I'm going to try “convert” with 
“-colorspace cmyk” instead) and the printing house slightly grudingly 
accepted rgb grey scale images for the bulk of the book.

regards,
	Christopher Creutzig

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Piotr Kopszak]

On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 11:10:51AM +0100, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> 
> Just curious: why do you need a cmyk pdf document? I'm asking because the 
> requirement often implies that you are using a less-than-modern printing 
> house. If that is the case, you may be better off using PostScript instead 
> of PDF.
> 
> Greetings, Taco

Actually, I was asked once  to deliver one, because the printing house
charged extra  money for  processing rgb pdf.   But true, this  time I
simply need postscript output. Hence  another question. I was asked to
deliver all  pages as separate EPS  files. I was  using ghostscript to
obtain individual  pages but is there  any option to get  all pages in
the document as separate files using ConTeXt?

Piotr


-- 
   Piotr Kopszak, Ph.D.          
   Polish Art Gallery, National Museum in Warsaw    
   ----------------------------->    http://kopszak.mnw.art.pl/
   http://www.magnatune.com/artists/altri_stromenti

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Taco Hoekwater]

Piotr Kopszak wrote:

> Actually, I was asked once  to deliver one, because the printing house
> charged extra  money for  processing rgb pdf.   But true, this  time I
> simply need postscript output. Hence  another question. I was asked to
> deliver all  pages as separate EPS  files. I was  using ghostscript to
> obtain individual  pages but is there  any option to get  all pages in
> the document as separate files using ConTeXt?

Not easily (the ghostscript approach is definately better).

Greetings, Taco

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Siep Kroonenberg]

On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 11:00:54AM +0100, Piotr Kopszak wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 11:10:51AM +0100, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> > 
> > Just curious: why do you need a cmyk pdf document? I'm asking because the 
> > requirement often implies that you are using a less-than-modern printing 
> > house. If that is the case, you may be better off using PostScript instead 
> > of PDF.
> > 
> > Greetings, Taco
> 
> Actually, I was asked once  to deliver one, because the printing house
> charged extra  money for  processing rgb pdf.   But true, this  time I
> simply need postscript output. Hence  another question. I was asked to
> deliver all  pages as separate EPS  files. I was  using ghostscript to
> obtain individual  pages but is there  any option to get  all pages in
> the document as separate files using ConTeXt?
> 
> Piotr

pdftops, part of the xpdf suite, should be able to do that with
something like

pdftops -eps -paper match -f pageno -l pageno file.pdf file_pageno.eps 

-- 
Siep Kroonenberg

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Tobias Hilbricht]

Am Do, den 02.12.2004 schrieb Taco Hoekwater um 11:10:
> Just curious: why do you need a cmyk pdf document?

Of course you can leave colour space conversion and colour separation to
the printer (provided the printer has the means to do so). However, for
full control over the print colours it is better to have a calibrated
monitor and a document in the CMYK colourspace - then you see what the
colours a likely to look like, and dependency on the printer is reduced.
Agencies, which prepare graphics for advertisements, pay thousands of
Euros to be able to control the correct outcome of corporate colours or
skin colours, for example.

Yours sincerely

Tobias Hilbricht

Re: Black generation in cmyk output

[Siep Kroonenberg]

On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 10:40:35AM +0100, Tobias Hilbricht wrote:
> Am Do, den 02.12.2004 schrieb Taco Hoekwater um 11:10:
> > Just curious: why do you need a cmyk pdf document?
> 
> Of course you can leave colour space conversion and colour separation to
> the printer (provided the printer has the means to do so). However, for
> full control over the print colours it is better to have a calibrated
> monitor and a document in the CMYK colourspace - then you see what the
> colours a likely to look like, and dependency on the printer is reduced.
> Agencies, which prepare graphics for advertisements, pay thousands of
> Euros to be able to control the correct outcome of corporate colours or
> skin colours, for example.
> 
> Yours sincerely
> 
> Tobias Hilbricht

CMYK is considered a device-dependent colorspace, which takes
press conditions into account. So you are more, not less dependent
on your printer by going for CMYK. At least, this is the theory.

Anyhow, it is a good idea to discuss color with your printshop if
color fidelity is an issue.

-- 
Siep Kroonenberg