alpha release / latin modern

alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Hi,

I posted an alpha release. Main differences:

- some efficiency changes in language parts

   needed for || extension

- latin modern fonts instead of cmr/plr/csr/aer/vnr:

   fetch the cont-lmt.zip file if needed

- david antos' wish, test for this:

   \unprotected \setuplanguage
     [cz]
     [\c!compoundhyphen=-,
      \c!leftcompoundhyphen=-,
      \c!rightcompoundhyphen=-]

   % \protect

   \starttext

   \def\test{|<|test|>| \dorecurse{100}{test||}test}

   \en  \test \endgraf
   \nl  \test \endgraf
   \de  \test \endgraf
   \deo \test \endgraf
   \cz  \test \endgraf

   \stoptext

   cz setting not yet in language files, test first


Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:11:29 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I posted an alpha release. Main differences:

<snip>

> - latin modern fonts instead of cmr/plr/csr/aer/vnr:
>
>    fetch the cont-lmt.zip file if needed

Ok, but lm is (as far as I know) still not quite usable for e.g. my 
journal. I sent a list of needs to Jacko quite a while back but i don't 
know if they r being considerd or not. Basically we need a global 
old-style numeral option and to fix/add some accents. I'm ready to work 
with u and Jacko to get this done...

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:11:29 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I posted an alpha release. Main differences:
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> - latin modern fonts instead of cmr/plr/csr/aer/vnr:
>>
>>    fetch the cont-lmt.zip file if needed
> 
> 
> Ok, but lm is (as far as I know) still not quite usable for e.g. my 
> journal. I sent a list of needs to Jacko quite a while back but i don't 
> know if they r being considerd or not. Basically we need a global 
> old-style numeral option and to fix/add some accents. I'm ready to work 
> with u and Jacko to get this done...

Are there things in cmr that are not in latin modern? Keep in mind that the math 
  fonts are still cmr (although some day there may be extensions in that aera as 
well)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Sorry 4 late response, was out of town...

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:11:40 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Are there things in cmr that are not in latin modern?

No, but I use old-style numerals as default (as it should be in much of 
the liberal arts and
critical scholarship). There are also a few accents that I have to make on 
the fly with (amateurish) macros, including the shorter bar over lower 
case <i> and some others. lm should provide all of this by default.

Until lm develops further, can you make a virtual lm font (with 
typescripts etc) that defaults to old-style numerals? Then I can still use 
my accent macros (which of course defeats the whole raison d'etre of 
lm;->) till lm fixes/implements these.

Also note that I'll explicitly credit Jacko/lm in the colophon of the next 
issue of my journal if we can fix this.

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> Sorry 4 late response, was out of town...
> 
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:11:40 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
>> Are there things in cmr that are not in latin modern?
> 
> 
> No, but I use old-style numerals as default (as it should be in much of 
> the liberal arts and
> critical scholarship). There are also a few accents that I have to make 
> on the fly with (amateurish) macros, including the shorter bar over 
> lower case <i> and some others. lm should provide all of this by default.

do you have a list of them:

<name> <example of how to make them with a macro>

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Adam Lindsay]

Idris Samawi Hamid said this at Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:28:43 -0700:

>No, but I use old-style numerals as default 

Out of curiosity, are the old-style numerals from CM (cmmi*, I presume)
in any shapes other than roman? I had the impression there were no real
italic or bold variants, but I could be wrong (and would love to know
where to find them, in that case!).

Cheers,
adam

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:45:29 +0000, Adam Lindsay <atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk> 
wrote:

> Idris Samawi Hamid said this at Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:28:43 -0700:
>
>> No, but I use old-style numerals as default
>
> Out of curiosity, are the old-style numerals from CM (cmmi*, I presume)
> in any shapes other than roman? I had the impression there were no real
> italic or bold variants, but I could be wrong (and would love to know
> where to find them, in that case!).

There is a bold version for the 10pt case only (cmmib10), and I created a 
font switch \ob to use old-style bold at any bold size when necessary (no 
optcal scaling). \bf still switches to the optically-scaled bold, while 
\ob uses cmmib10's numerals:

\definestyle [oldstylebold] [\ob] []

:

\definefontsynonym [OldStyleSerif-Bold]         [cmrosb10]
%cmrosb10 is a virtual font that calls the numerals from
%cmmib10

:

\definefontsynonym [SerifBold]             [OldStyleSerif-Bold]

:

\definebodyfont
   [20.7pt,17.3pt,14.4pt,12pt,11pt,10pt,9pt,8pt,7pt,6pt,5pt,4pt]
   [rm]
   [ob=SerifBold sa 1,
    bi=SerifBoldItalic sa 1,
    bs=SerifBoldSlanted sa 1,
    sc=SerifCaps sa 1]

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2077 bytes --]

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:41:30 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>> There are also a few accents that I have to make on the fly with 
>> (amateurish) macros, including the shorter bar over lower case <i> and 
>> some others. lm should provide all of this by default.
>
> do you have a list of them:
>
> <name> <example of how to make them with a macro>

ok, everything is in the attached file aqc-trans.sty (also 2 b found in 
your private sanaah tree \texmf-var\tex\generic\sanaah). Most important:

1.

\def\h#1{{\oalign{\relax#1\crcr\hidewidth\SHIFT{34}%
     \vbox to.2ex{\hbox{\char'25}\vss}\hidewidth}}}

% this one fails when using m-bib so I have some workarounds in the 
attached file

2.

\def\IBAR%
{\leavevmode\vbox{\offinterlineskip\lineskip0.295ex%
%\ialign{##\cr\USHIFT{120}\hbox to .27777em{\leaders\hrule height 
.067354ex\hfill}\SHIFT{1}\cr\i\cr}}}
%\ialign{##\cr\USHIFT{120}\hfill\hbox to .21243em{\leaders\hrule height 
.067354ex\hfill}\hfill\SHIFT{1}\cr\i\cr}}}
\ialign{##\cr\USHIFT{120}\hfill\hbox to .21243em{\leaders\hrule height 
.07ex\hfill}\hfill\SHIFT{1}\cr\i\cr}}}

\definecharacter imacron          {\IBAR} % ConTeXt-dependent!

3.

\def\cupd{\leavevmode\USHIFT{14}\rotate[rotation=180,location=high]{\txx 
c}\SHIFT{14}} % ConTeXt dependent!
\def\cupds{\leavevmode\USHIFT{21}\rotate[rotation=180,location=high]{\switchtobodyfont[small]\txx 
c}\SHIFT{14}} % ConTeXt dependent!

\def\HAMZAH{\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\cupd}{}}
\def\HAMZAHS{\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\cupds}{}}
\def\AYN   {\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\txx \USHIFT{1} c\SHIFT{0}}{}}
%\def\AYN   {\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\switchtobodyfont[small]\txx 
\USHIFT{1} c\SHIFT{1}}{}}
\def\AYNS   {\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\switchtobodyfont[small]\txx 
\USHIFT{1} c\SHIFT{1}}{}}

\def\'{\HAMZAH}
\def\`{\AYN}
========================

There may be a couple of more important ones, I need to check...

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

[-- Attachment #2: ac-trans.sty --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 3729 bytes --]

\def\.#1{\oalign{#1\crcr\hidewidth.\hidewidth}}
%\def\h#1{\leavevmode\rlap{\kern-.44ex\lower1.8ex\hbox{\accent"15}}#1}
\def\SHIFT#1{\dimen0=.00#1ex \multiply\dimen0 by\fontdimen1\font
    \kern-.0156\dimen0} % compensate for slant/italic in lower accents

\def\USHIFT#1{\dimen0=.00#1ex \multiply\dimen0 by\fontdimen1\font
             \kern.0156\dimen0} % compensate for slant/italic in upper accents

\def\talign#1{\leavevmode\vtop{\baselineskip0pt \lineskip-2.05ex
  \ialign{##\crcr#1\crcr}}}

\def\ttalign#1{\leavevmode\vtop{\baselineskip0pt \lineskip-2.22ex
  \ialign{##\crcr#1\crcr}}}

\def\TIE#1{\talign{#1\crcr\hidewidth\USHIFT{18}%
    \vbox to.2ex{\hbox{\the\textfont3\kern-1.15ex\char'145}\vss}\hidewidth}}

\def\ITIE#1{\talign{#1\crcr\hidewidth\USHIFT{18}%
    \vbox to.2ex{\hbox{\the\textfont3\kern-0.85ex\char'145}\vss}\hidewidth}}

\def\TTIE#1{\ttalign{#1\crcr\hidewidth\USHIFT{18}%
    \vbox to.2ex{\hbox{\the\textfont3\kern-1.25ex\char'145}\vss}\hidewidth}}

\def\AL{A\TTIE{l}} % will rarely be used

%\def\Al{a\TIE{l}} % will be used often

\def\Al{\~a\~l}

\def\Il{i\ITIE{l}} % will rarely be used

\def\Ul{u\TIE{l}} % will rarely be used

\def\h#1{{\oalign{\relax#1\crcr\hidewidth\SHIFT{34}%
    \vbox to.2ex{\hbox{\char'25}\vss}\hidewidth}}}

%\catcode`\@=11
%
%\def\b#1{{\o@lign{\relax#1\crcr\hidewidth\sh@ft{-3ex}%
%    \vbox to.2ex{\hbox{\char22}\vss}\hidewidth}}}
%
%\catcode`\@=12

%\def\h#1{\leavevmode\vbox{\offinterlineskip\lineskip0.295ex%
%\ialign{##\cr #1\cr\SHIFT{3}\hfill\hbox{\char'25}\hfill\SHIFT{0}\cr}}}

\def\~#1{{\struttedbox{\accent"7E #1}}}

\def\ulap#1{\vbox to 0pt{\vss #1}}
\def\dlap#1{\vbox to 0pt{#1\vss}}
\def\rlap#1{\hbox to 0pt{#1\hss}}
\def\llap#1{\hbox to 0pt{\hss #1}}

\long\def\xlap#1{\hbox to 0pt{\hss #1\hss}}
\long\def\ylap#1{\vbox to 0pt{\vss #1\vss}} %
\long\def\zlap#1{\ylap{\xlap{#1}}}

%\def\KH{{H}\rlap{\dlap{\leavevmode\lower.8em\hbox{\hskip-1.44ex\char'25}}}}  % for bib-mod bug
\def\KH{H{\leavevmode\lower.465em\hbox{\hskip-.85ex\zlap{\char'25}}\kern.4em}}
\def\Kh{h{\leavevmode\lower.465em\hbox{\hskip-.625ex\zlap{\char'25}}\kern.275em}}
%\def\KH{\leavevmode\vtop{\offinterlineskip\lineskip0.295ex%
%        \ialign{##\cr H\cr\hfill\hbox{\char'25}\hfill\cr}}}

%\def\h#1{\OSOF{\oalign{#1\crcr\hidewidth\SHIFT{34}%
%    \vbox to.2ex{\hbox{\char'25}\vss}\hidewidth}}\OSO}

\def\:#1{{\accent"5F #1}}

\def\Grave#1{{\accent"12 #1}}
\def\Acute#1{{\accent"13 #1}}

%%%=====================ayn-hamzah====================
\def\cupd{\leavevmode\USHIFT{14}\rotate[rotation=180,location=high]{\txx c}\SHIFT{14}} % ConTeXt dependent!
\def\cupds{\leavevmode\USHIFT{21}\rotate[rotation=180,location=high]{\switchtobodyfont[small]\txx c}\SHIFT{14}} % ConTeXt dependent!

\def\HAMZAH{\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\cupd}{}}
\def\HAMZAHS{\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\cupds}{}}
\def\AYN   {\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\txx \USHIFT{1} c\SHIFT{0}}{}}
%\def\AYN   {\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\switchtobodyfont[small]\txx \USHIFT{1} c\SHIFT{1}}{}}
\def\AYNS   {\leavevmode\raise.9ex\hbox{\switchtobodyfont[small]\txx \USHIFT{1} c\SHIFT{1}}{}}

\def\'{\HAMZAH}
\def\`{\AYN}
%%%=====================imacron====================
\def\IBAR%
{\leavevmode\vbox{\offinterlineskip\lineskip0.295ex%
%\ialign{##\cr\USHIFT{120}\hbox to .27777em{\leaders\hrule height .067354ex\hfill}\SHIFT{1}\cr\i\cr}}}
%\ialign{##\cr\USHIFT{120}\hfill\hbox to .21243em{\leaders\hrule height .067354ex\hfill}\hfill\SHIFT{1}\cr\i\cr}}}
\ialign{##\cr\USHIFT{120}\hfill\hbox to .21243em{\leaders\hrule height .07ex\hfill}\hfill\SHIFT{1}\cr\i\cr}}}

\definecharacter imacron          {\IBAR} % ConTeXt-dependent!



\endinput

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Vit Zyka]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1705 bytes --]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I posted an alpha release. Main differences:
 >
> - david antos' wish, test for this:
> 
>   \unprotected \setuplanguage
>     [cz]
>     [\c!compoundhyphen=-,
>      \c!leftcompoundhyphen=-,
>      \c!rightcompoundhyphen=-]

Hallo Hans,

I save time to install new release and start to test. Good news:
1) The hyphen code can be processed with cont-cz.
Bad news:
1) \c!compoundhyphen atc. are not defined in cont-con.tex
2) it preserves long-variant hyphen for \cz case (no difference between 
\en and \cz):

\unprotected \setuplanguage
     [cz]
     [compoundhyphen=-,
      leftcompoundhyphen=-,
      rightcompoundhyphen=-]

\starttext

\en \dorecurse{100}{test||}test \endgraf
\cz \dorecurse{100}{test||}test \endgraf

\stoptext

=====================================================
 > - latin modern fonts instead of cmr/plr/csr/aer/vnr:
 >
 >   fetch the cont-lmt.zip file if needed

I want to compare Czech accented chars in lm and csr. I started with the 
bellow code, but no criticalchars is visible in both cases. Log is 
enclosed. What are the proper family/typescript names?

Thanks for help.
Vit Zyka

%--------------------------------
\useencoding[il2]
\enableregime[il2]

\def\criticalchars{ďťňŤŘŠůúÚ}
% \v d, \v t, \v n, \v T, \v R, \v S, \r u, \'u, \'U

\starttext
   %\usetypescript[computer-modern][il2]\switchtobodyfont[csr,12pt]
   \usetypescript[csr][il2]\switchtobodyfont[csr,12pt]
   \criticalchars\showbodyfont

   %\usetypescript[latin-modern][il2]\switchtobodyfont[cmr,12pt]
   \usetypescript[modern][il2]\switchtobodyfont[cmr,12pt]
   \criticalchars\showbodyfont
\stoptext

[-- Attachment #2: latin.log --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 12736 bytes --]

This is pdfeTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.20a-2.2 (Web2c 7.5.3) (format=cont-cz 2005.2.7)  7 FEB 2005 19:57
entering extended mode
\write18 enabled.
 %&-line parsing enabled.
 (c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/web2c/natural.tcx)
**&cont-cz latin.tex
(./latin.tex

ConTeXt  ver: 2005.01.31  fmt: 2005.2.7  int: english  mes: english

language        : language cz is active
<protectionstate 0>
system          : cont-new loaded
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/cont-new.tex
systems         : beware: some patches loaded from cont-new.tex!
color           : palette rollover is available
system (E-TEX) : [line 878] 
system (E-TEX) : [line 933] 
)
system          : cont-old loaded
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/cont-old.tex
loading         : Context Old Macros
)
system          : cont-fil loaded
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/cont-fil.tex
loading         : Context File Synonyms
)
system          : cont-sys.rme loaded
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/user/cont-sys.rme
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
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(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex))
bodyfont        : 12pt rm is loaded
language        : patterns en->default:default->1->2:2 de->texnansi:texnansi->2
->2:2 de->ec:ec->3->2:2 sk->il2:il2->4->2:2 sk->ec:ec->5->2:2 cz->il2:il2->6->2
:2 cz->ec:ec->7->2:2 loaded
specials        : tex,postscript,rokicki loaded
\openout2 = `latin.tui'.

system          : latin.top loaded
(./latin.top
specials        : loading definition file tpd
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/spec-tpd.tex
specials        : loading definition file fdf
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/spec-fdf.tex <unprotect 3>
<unprotect 4>
system (E-TEX) : [line 2280] \ifcsname 
<protect 4> <protect 3>)
specials        : fdf loaded
<unprotect 3> <protect 3>)
specials        : fdf,tpd loaded
)
\openout0 = `latin-mpgraph.mp'.

\openout0 = `mpgraph.mp'.

 (./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo)
(./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo)
(./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo) (./latin.tuo)
fonts           : using map file: texnansi-public-lm.map
fonts           : using map file: original-public-vnr.map
fonts           : using map file: original-public-csr.map
fonts           : using map file: original-public-plr.map
fonts           : using map file: original-public-lm.map
fonts           : using map file: original-ams-euler.map
fonts           : using map file: original-ams-cmr.map
fonts           : using map file: texnansi-base.map
fonts           : using map file: t5-base.map
fonts           : using map file: qx-base.map
fonts           : using map file: 8r-base.map
fonts           : using map file: ec-base.map
fonts           : using map file: ec-public-lm.map
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systems         : begin file latin at line 6
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
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(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-pre.tex
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(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
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(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex))
Missing character: There is no ï in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no » in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no ò in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no « in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no Ø in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no © in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no ù in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no ú in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no Ú in font cmr12!

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(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
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(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex))
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-pre.tex
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-syn.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-enc.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-dis.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-map.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-spe.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-exa.tex)
(c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex))
Missing character: There is no ï in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no » in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no ò in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no « in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no Ø in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no © in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no ù in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no ú in font cmr12!
Missing character: There is no Ú in font cmr12!
 [1.1{c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/fonts/map/pdftex/context/original-empty.map}{c:/
TeXLive/texmf-experim/fonts/map/pdftex/context/texnansi-public-lm.map}{c:/TeXLi
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fonts/map/pdftex/context/original-ams-euler.map}{c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/fonts
/map/pdftex/context/original-ams-cmr.map}{c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/fonts/map/pd
ftex/context/texnansi-base.map}{c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/fonts/map/pdftex/conte
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c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/fonts/map/pdftex/context/8r-base.map}{c:/TeXLive/texmf
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ap/pdftex/context/ec-public-lm.map}{c:/TeXLive/texmf-experim/fonts/map/pdftex/c
ontext/original-base.map}]
systems         : end file latin at line 14
 ) 
Here is how much of TeX's memory you used:
 2087 strings out of 62952
 41320 string characters out of 663862
 4499219 words of memory out of 5540816
 36706 multiletter control sequences out of 10000+50000
 16691 words of font info for 59 fonts, out of 1000000 for 2000
 24 hyphenation exceptions out of 1000
 44i,17n,49p,324b,366s stack positions out of 5000i,500n,6000p,200000b,40000s
 61 PDF objects out of 300000
 0 named destinations out of 131072
 1 words of extra memory for PDF output out of 65536
<c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmtt8.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dis
t/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmtt10.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/
cm/cmitt10.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmsltt10.pfb><c:/T
eXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmss8.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts
/type1/bluesky/cm/cmssbx10.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cm
ssi12.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmss10.pfb><c:/TeXLive/
texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmss12.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1
/bluesky/cm/cmr8.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmr10.pfb><c
:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmbxti10.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist
/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmbxsl10.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky
/cm/cmbx12.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmti12.pfb><c:/TeX
Live/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmsl12.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/
type1/bluesky/cm/cmcsc10.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmtt
12.pfb><c:/TeXLive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmr12.pfb>
Output written on latin.pdf (1 page, 58475 bytes).

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Vit Zyka wrote:

> I save time to install new release and start to test. Good news:
> 1) The hyphen code can be processed with cont-cz.
> Bad news:
> 1) \c!compoundhyphen atc. are not defined in cont-con.tex

they are in mult-con (in the alpha)

> 2) it preserves long-variant hyphen for \cz case (no difference between 
> \en and \cz):
> 
> \unprotected \setuplanguage
>     [cz]
>     [compoundhyphen=-,
>      leftcompoundhyphen=-,
>      rightcompoundhyphen=-]

that;s because in your version the keywords are not known

> =====================================================
>  > - latin modern fonts instead of cmr/plr/csr/aer/vnr:
>  >
>  >   fetch the cont-lmt.zip file if needed
> 
> I want to compare Czech accented chars in lm and csr. I started with the 
> bellow code, but no criticalchars is visible in both cases. Log is 
> enclosed. What are the proper family/typescript names?

> %--------------------------------
> \useencoding[il2]
> \enableregime[il2]

\setupencoding[default=il2] \usetypescript[modern][\defaultencoding]

(no need fo rthe regime afaik)


Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Vit Zyka]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Vit Zyka wrote:
> 
>> I save time to install new release and start to test. Good news:
>> 1) The hyphen code can be processed with cont-cz.
>> Bad news:
>> 1) \c!compoundhyphen atc. are not defined in cont-con.tex
> 
> they are in mult-con (in the alpha)

Sorry Hans, I did not distinguish between current and alpha, only 
between alpha-betha.

Now it works well, indeed...

So can we move

\unprotected \setuplanguage
     [cz]
     [\c!compoundhyphen=-,
      \c!leftcompoundhyphen=-,
      \c!rightcompoundhyphen=-]

onto cont-cz.tex ?

And related question. Is there ANY czech user who uses cz interface, 
like \definujramovani? I guess not. It is very unconfortable and 
confusing especially for unskilled ConTeXter to edit cont-cz.tex to switch
   \def\defaultinterface{czech}
to
   \def\defaultinterface{english}

If nobody complain I suggest \def\defaultinterface{english}
to be default for cont-cz.

Thanks
Vit Zyka

RE: \defaultinterface for cont-cz

[Martin Kolařík]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1761 bytes --]

Hi all,

I'm using english interface in cont-cz too... But, maybe, it could be useful
to determine interface in the highest level -- during making the format
like:

texexec --make cz --commands en

I know --interface cz cannot be used as --interface is used to select
ConTeXt format (to rewrite texexec defaults).

What about this?

Have a nice day,

Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl [mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl]On
Behalf Of Vit Zyka
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:56 AM
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] alpha release / latin modern


Hans Hagen wrote:
> Vit Zyka wrote:
> 
>> I save time to install new release and start to test. Good news:
>> 1) The hyphen code can be processed with cont-cz.
>> Bad news:
>> 1) \c!compoundhyphen atc. are not defined in cont-con.tex
> 
> they are in mult-con (in the alpha)

Sorry Hans, I did not distinguish between current and alpha, only 
between alpha-betha.

Now it works well, indeed...

So can we move

\unprotected \setuplanguage
     [cz]
     [\c!compoundhyphen=-,
      \c!leftcompoundhyphen=-,
      \c!rightcompoundhyphen=-]

onto cont-cz.tex ?

And related question. Is there ANY czech user who uses cz interface, 
like \definujramovani? I guess not. It is very unconfortable and 
confusing especially for unskilled ConTeXter to edit cont-cz.tex to switch
   \def\defaultinterface{czech}
to
   \def\defaultinterface{english}

If nobody complain I suggest \def\defaultinterface{english}
to be default for cont-cz.

Thanks
Vit Zyka
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Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

>> Idris Samawi Hamid said this at Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:28:43 -0700:
>>
>>> No, but I use old-style numerals as default

Ok, the next alpha will offer you:

\starttext

\usetypescript [modern][\defaultencoding]
\usetypescript [map]   [latin-modern-os] [\defaultencoding]

\setupbodyfont[modern] test 1234 test

\stoptext


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: RE: \defaultinterface for cont-cz

[Hans Hagen]

Martin Kolařík wrote:

> I'm using english interface in cont-cz too... But, maybe, it could be useful
> to determine interface in the highest level -- during making the format
> like:
> 
> texexec --make cz --commands en
> 
> I know --interface cz cannot be used as --interface is used to select
> ConTeXt format (to rewrite texexec defaults).
> 
> What about this?

it was possible to say something

texexec --make --lang=en,cz --font=csr etc etc

to get an english format with czech fonts

however, the new version will have latin modern in ec format preloaded, so then

   texexec --make --all

will do (i may even consider loading all patterns always by default)

and in your document:

\mainlanguage[cz] % optionally \enableregime[il2]

and there is no need for special formats

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Vit Zyka wrote:

> So can we move
> 
> \unprotected \setuplanguage
>     [cz]
>     [\c!compoundhyphen=-,
>      \c!leftcompoundhyphen=-,
>      \c!rightcompoundhyphen=-]
> 
> onto cont-cz.tex ?

no, if all your czech friends agree, it can move to lang-sla.tex

> And related question. Is there ANY czech user who uses cz interface, 
> like \definujramovani? I guess not. It is very unconfortable and 
> confusing especially for unskilled ConTeXter to edit cont-cz.tex to switch
>   \def\defaultinterface{czech}
> to
>   \def\defaultinterface{english}

cont-cz was never meant to be english in interface

> If nobody complain I suggest \def\defaultinterface{english}
> to be default for cont-cz.

the cont-cz name is reserved for the interface, so if you really want a czech 
format, you need to go cont-en-cz or so

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Vit Zyka]

> \setupencoding[default=il2] \usetypescript[modern][\defaultencoding]

There is some mess with encoding, I think:

-------------------------
\setupencoding[default=il2]
\def\criticalchars{\dcaron=\v d=ď}

\starttext
   \usetypescript[modern][\defaultencoding]
   \criticalchars
\stoptext
------------------------
Both \dcaron and \v d give proper glyph, but direct 'ď' not.

If I understand correctly, now the actual typescript is defined in 
type-exa.tex encoding: enco-il2.tex map: il2-public-lm.map with glyph 
encoding: csrm.enc.

So problem is at the very beginning stage. I check if input file is 
exactly in il2 encoding, yes it is. 'ď' has catcode letter. So a the 
letter is should enter the font.

Where is problem?
VZ

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Adam Lindsay]

Vit Zyka said this at Tue, 8 Feb 2005 12:30:20 +0100:

>So problem is at the very beginning stage. I check if input file is
>exactly in il2 encoding, yes it is. 'ì' has catcode letter. So a the
>letter is should enter the font.
>
>Where is problem?

I think it's with two things:
1) you're not using \enableregime[il2]
2) there's no il2 regime anyway!

Perhaps (as a temporary fix), you could convert your file to UTF-8
encoding and include \enableregime[utf] in your input file?

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Adam Lindsay wrote:
> Vit Zyka said this at Tue, 8 Feb 2005 12:30:20 +0100:
> 
> 
>>So problem is at the very beginning stage. I check if input file is 
>>exactly in il2 encoding, yes it is. 'ì' has catcode letter. So a the 
>>letter is should enter the font.
>>
>>Where is problem?
> 
> 
> I think it's with two things:
> 1) you're not using \enableregime[il2]
> 2) there's no il2 regime anyway!

another option is to copy cont-en into cont-xx and replace the ec in there by il2

(or to say: \definetypeface[modern][il2] \setupbodyfont[modern], but that is 
slower)

%D \module
%D   [       file=cont-en,
%D        version=1997.08.19,
%D          title=\CONTEXT,
%D       subtitle=\CONTEXT\ English Format Generation,
%D         author=Hans Hagen,
%D           date=\currentdate,
%D      copyright={PRAGMA / Hans Hagen \& Ton Otten}]
%C
%C This module is part of the \CONTEXT\ macro||package and is
%C therefore copyrighted by \PRAGMA. See mreadme.pdf for
%C details.

\catcode`\{=1 \catcode`\}=2 \def\defaultinterface{english}

\input context.tex

\unprotect

\setupcurrentlanguage[\s!en]

\loaduserspecifications

\installlanguage [\s!en] [\c!state=\v!start]
\installlanguage [\s!uk] [\c!state=\v!start]
\installlanguage [\s!de] [\c!state=\v!start]
\installlanguage [\s!fr] [\c!state=\v!start]
\installlanguage [\s!es] [\c!state=\v!start]
\installlanguage [\s!it] [\c!state=\v!start]
\installlanguage [\s!nl] [\c!state=\v!start]

% \setupbodyfont [cmr,ams,rm,12pt]
%
% \setupencoding[default=ec] \usetypescript[modern][\defaultencoding] 
\setupbodyfont[modern,rm,12pt]

\setupencoding[default=ec] \usetypescript[fallback][\defaultencoding] 
\setupbodyfont[rm,12pt]

\protect \errorstopmode \dump \endinput

====

btw, if you patch enco-il2 by

   \startcoding[il2][il2] % second entry

and regenerate the format you have a regime for free -)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Adam Lindsay]

Hans Hagen said this at Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:11:29 +0100:

> latin modern fonts instead of cmr/plr/csr/aer/vnr:

Ah, here's a conflict: XeTeX doesn't have latin modern yet. (Needs to be
converted to OpenType, with some special table enabled... JK hasn't
documented it yet.) Do you have a switch to avoid the cmr-lm conversion?

Also, something I just realised (thanks to Vit's example): XeTeX hasn't a
clue when it comes to grid typesetting. (Has to do with the difficulty of
getting the metrics from the platform fonts, I think.)

adam
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Vit Zyka wrote:
>> \setupencoding[default=il2] \usetypescript[modern][\defaultencoding]
> 
> 
> There is some mess with encoding, I think:
> 
> -------------------------
> \setupencoding[default=il2]
> \def\criticalchars{\dcaron=\v d=ď}
> 
> \starttext
>   \usetypescript[modern][\defaultencoding]
>   \criticalchars
> \stoptext

in addition to previous mails: encodings are switched by font switches, i.e. 
each font has an associated encoding, so in principle one can have typefaces and 
styles with mixed encodings; the default is ec which happens to partially 
overlay with il2 and unless some regime is used, your specific input


Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Adam Lindsay wrote:

> Ah, here's a conflict: XeTeX doesn't have latin modern yet. (Needs to be
> converted to OpenType, with some special table enabled... JK hasn't
> documented it yet.) Do you have a switch to avoid the cmr-lm conversion?

hm, we should have a \beginXETEX ... \endXETEX section then

but before we do that, can you contact

   Boguslaw Jackowski <bop@bop.com.pl>

there has be done some work on lm open type so maybe if you join forces ...

> Also, something I just realised (thanks to Vit's example): XeTeX hasn't a
> clue when it comes to grid typesetting. (Has to do with the difficulty of
> getting the metrics from the platform fonts, I think.)

context does grid typesetting itself, there is no dependency on pdftex or so

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: RE: \defaultinterface for cont-cz

[Vit Zyka]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> will do (i may even consider loading all patterns always by default)

Yes, presence of cz patterns in cont-en solve the confusion.

VZ

> and in your document:
> 
> \mainlanguage[cz] % optionally \enableregime[il2]
> 
> and there is no need for special formats

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Vit Zyka]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> btw, if you patch enco-il2 by
> 
>   \startcoding[il2][il2] % second entry
> 
> and regenerate the format you have a regime for free -)

OK. That is the game. Chars were born.

I prepared a quick comparision of Czech/Slovak accented letters (Latin 
Modern v. CS Fonts). See http://typokvitek.com/tmp/latin.pdf

Font design is very subjective game, I know. There is my comment:
1) LM has very ugly caron
2) caron is too high at both capitals and minuscules
3) ring is lifeless/faint
4) acute is OK; I would prefer vertical position somewhere inbetween LM 
an CS, but CS are consistent with tight accents (acute and caron)
5) \v t: caron is too low (does not look as neither ligature connection 
nor separate accent

No kernings checking for now, just glyph drawing. I can ask LM author 
(Boguslaw Jackowski <bop@bop.com.pl> ?) about his opinion. But the 
current tests (especially points 1,2,3) prevent me from the LM font 
usage in ConTeXt.

So, for me, there are two possibilities to fullfil my aesthetic feeling:
1) go back to the old (no lm) ConTeXt version, or
2) simple switch to set complete CS fonts environment (I use the next 
code, but it is just a quick hack:
   \loadmapfile[il2-ams-cmr.map]
   \definetypeface[computer-modern][il2] \setupbodyfont[modern]

I prefer the second variant. Can we find its solution?

Thank
vit

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Vit Zyka wrote:
> Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
>> btw, if you patch enco-il2 by
>>
>>   \startcoding[il2][il2] % second entry
>>
>> and regenerate the format you have a regime for free -)
> 
> 
> OK. That is the game. Chars were born.
> 
> I prepared a quick comparision of Czech/Slovak accented letters (Latin 
> Modern v. CS Fonts). See http://typokvitek.com/tmp/latin.pdf
> 
> Font design is very subjective game, I know. There is my comment:
> 1) LM has very ugly caron
> 2) caron is too high at both capitals and minuscules
> 3) ring is lifeless/faint
> 4) acute is OK; I would prefer vertical position somewhere inbetween LM 
> an CS, but CS are consistent with tight accents (acute and caron)
> 5) \v t: caron is too low (does not look as neither ligature connection 
> nor separate accent
> 
> No kernings checking for now, just glyph drawing. I can ask LM author 
> (Boguslaw Jackowski <bop@bop.com.pl> ?) about his opinion. But the 
> current tests (especially points 1,2,3) prevent me from the LM font 
> usage in ConTeXt.
> 
> So, for me, there are two possibilities to fullfil my aesthetic feeling:
> 1) go back to the old (no lm) ConTeXt version, or
> 2) simple switch to set complete CS fonts environment (I use the next 
> code, but it is just a quick hack:
>   \loadmapfile[il2-ams-cmr.map]
>   \definetypeface[computer-modern][il2] \setupbodyfont[modern]
> 
> I prefer the second variant. Can we find its solution?

a better solution is to use alternative glyphs, now, one problem is that there 
are no il2-lm files in the lm distribution and such things could be solved in a 
il2-lm.* tfm set combined with enc files that map to the prefered instances of 
glyphs (some glyphs are present in more variants), so

i prefer the first variant with adaptions since that was part of the reason for 
the lm project: replace plr, csr, aer etc

kerning is a different game, since the csr metric files are used, you get the 
same kerns as in csr; but future versions of lm will have improved kerning pairs

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Vit Zyka wrote:

> I prefer the second variant. Can we find its solution?

added to the previous mail: german has dedicated umlauts in latin modern, so 
what you ask for is dedidated (positioned lower) caron's and such; about the 
small circular thingie, it indeed looks a bit to spiny in latin modern, so that 
may be a bug (you may as well be one of the first czech tex users looking into 
latin modern -)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Adam Lindsay wrote:

>>latin modern fonts instead of cmr/plr/csr/aer/vnr:
> 
> 
> Ah, here's a conflict: XeTeX doesn't have latin modern yet. (Needs to be
> converted to OpenType, with some special table enabled... JK hasn't
> documented it yet.) Do you have a switch to avoid the cmr-lm conversion?

what cmr does xetex use? a special version? we can of course make a xetex 
specific typescript to setup the default fonts

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Adam Lindsay]

Hans Hagen said this at Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:41:26 +0100:

>> Also, something I just realised (thanks to Vit's example): XeTeX hasn't a
>> clue when it comes to grid typesetting. (Has to do with the difficulty of
>> getting the metrics from the platform fonts, I think.)
>
>context does grid typesetting itself, there is no dependency on pdftex or so

I sort of tried to say that XeTeX's vertical measurements are very
conservative (based on Apple's text system: it just doesn't want to let
lines get too close!).

Anyway, here are some adjusted logos that seem to save 80% of my
headaches in XeTeX's vertical spacing:

\beginXETEX depth adjustment of logos
\let\NormalTeXLogo\TeX    %save it---just in case!
\def\XeTeX{X\smash[d]{\lower.5ex\hbox{\kern-.15em\mirror{E}}}\kern-
.1667em\TeX}
\def\TeX{T\smash[d]{\kern-.1667em\lower.5ex\hbox{E}}\kern-.125emX}
\endXETEX

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Adam Lindsay]

Hans Hagen said this at Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:51:24 +0100:

>what cmr does xetex use? a special version? we can of course make a xetex 
>specific typescript to setup the default fonts

It's a straight opentype encapsulation of the CMR type1 fonts from CTAN,
as far as I can tell. 

Getting LM in there is a function of $x$ Jonathan Kew's time, $y$ when
the next XeTeX release is, and $z$ the stability of LM's current release.

I'll try to measure $z$ with Jacko later today...
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Vit Zyka wrote:

> Font design is very subjective game, I know. There is my comment:
> 1) LM has very ugly caron
> 2) caron is too high at both capitals and minuscules

Isn't that a matter of taste? Think of mixed language usage (not that strange in 
todays europe), then one wants consistency and this was one of the objectives of 
  the latin modern fonts.

> 3) ring is lifeless/faint

indeed, let's see what Jacko thinks of it

> 4) acute is OK; I would prefer vertical position somewhere inbetween LM 
> an CS, but CS are consistent with tight accents (acute and caron)

this is a disputed area, afaik latin modern is following the typographical 
correct rules (font/language experts were involved in that)

> 5) \v t: caron is too low (does not look as neither ligature connection 
> nor separate accent

hm, isn't that a matter if viewing and printer resolution?

There has been some discussion with czech users in the previous lm dev stage, so 
... do you know of any usage of lm in czech?

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Vit Zyka]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Vit Zyka wrote:
> 
>> Font design is very subjective game, I know. There is my comment:

I have asked Czech TeX users for their opinion yesterday. Now I want to 
wait a several days for their collecting. After that I will summarize 
the discussion results and will sent it here and to Jacko.

>> 1) LM has very ugly caron
>> 2) caron is too high at both capitals and minuscules
> 
> Isn't that a matter of taste? Think of mixed language usage (not that 
> strange in todays europe), then one wants consistency and this was one 
> of the objectives of  the latin modern fonts.
> 
>> 3) ring is lifeless/faint
> 
> indeed, let's see what Jacko thinks of it
> 
>> 4) acute is OK; I would prefer vertical position somewhere inbetween 
>> LM an CS, but CS are consistent with tight accents (acute and caron)
> 
> 
> this is a disputed area, afaik latin modern is following the 
> typographical correct rules (font/language experts were involved in that)
> 
>> 5) \v t: caron is too low (does not look as neither ligature 
>> connection nor separate accent
> 
> 
> hm, isn't that a matter if viewing and printer resolution?
> 
> There has been some discussion with czech users in the previous lm dev 
> stage, so ... do you know of any usage of lm in czech?
> 
> Hans

Re: alpha release / latin modern

[Adam Lindsay]

Vit Zyka said this at Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:54:41 +0100:

>>> Font design is very subjective game, I know. There is my comment:

I'm reminded of this quote: 
"The Polish prefer it more upright. The Czechs prefer it more flat."
<http://jeff.cs.mcgill.ca/~luc/atypi04.html>

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-