TABLE: spacing, before/after

TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Eckhart Guthöhrlein]

Hi,

three questions:
- How can I control horizontal spacing of columns in natural tables?
- What about vertical spacing?
- How can I insert material after/before each cell, something like
	\setuptable[row][first][before=bla bla] ?

Thanks,
-- 
Eckhart

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Eckhart Guthöhrlein]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 at 10:09:11+0200, Eckhart Guthöhrlein wrote:
> - How can I control horizontal spacing of columns in natural tables?
> - What about vertical spacing?
> - How can I insert material after/before each cell, something like
> 	\setuptable[row][first][before=bla bla] ?

Does anybody know an answer to one of these questions? I can't get it
done. If I have missed something in the docs, please point it out to me.

I have an additional question: Is there a way to do something with an
entry in natural tables, analogously to the h (hook) column specifier of
tabulate?

I really need to get along with this table stuff, so once again thanks
for any help.

-- 
Eckhart

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Paul Tremblay]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:09:11AM +0200, Eckhart Guthöhrlein wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> three questions:
> - How can I control horizontal spacing of columns in natural tables?
> - What about vertical spacing?
> - How can I insert material after/before each cell, something like
> 	\setuptable[row][first][before=bla bla] ?
> 
> Thanks,


Hi Eckhart,

I think you might find some of the answers here:

http://getfo.sourceforge.net/context_xml/page5.html#id2258730

setupTABLE[r][1][heigth=24pt]
setupTABLE[c][odd][width=12pt]
% the page gives more examples

Sorry if this is not what you are looking for.

Paul


-- 

************************
*Paul Tremblay         *
*phthenry@iglou.com    *
************************

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Eckhart Guthöhrlein]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 at 10:04:09-0400, Paul Tremblay wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:09:11AM +0200, Eckhart Guthöhrlein wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > three questions:
> > - How can I control horizontal spacing of columns in natural tables?
> > - What about vertical spacing?
> > - How can I insert material after/before each cell, something like
> > 	\setuptable[row][first][before=bla bla] ?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> 
> 
> Hi Eckhart,
> 
> I think you might find some of the answers here:
> 
> http://getfo.sourceforge.net/context_xml/page5.html#id2258730

Nice overview, Paul. I had a quick glance, but I'm afraid the questions
above are not addressed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

> setupTABLE[r][1][heigth=24pt]
> setupTABLE[c][odd][width=12pt]
> % the page gives more examples
> 
> Sorry if this is not what you are looking for.

Well, not exactly. By default, a column has the width of its widest
entry. Using width=5cm, I can only define the absolute width of a
column. But what I want is to increase the separation of adjectant
columns. Whether this is achieved by adding space between columns or by
setting their width to a certain amount wider than their natural width
doesn't matter to me.
You have already experienced the absence of a desirable feature
yourself, but let me point out once again that this cannot be achieved
by setting the rulethickness of the cell frame, since it is not possible
to change left/right thickness from the top/bottom one, and frames are
invisible but still take space if you deactivate them via e.g.
topframe=off.
Thanks for your page - it's surely of help, especially for newcomers,
since tables (and the many different possibilities to produce them) are
cumbersome in context.

Greetings,
-- 
Eckhart

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Paul Tremblay]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 05:15:04PM +0200, Eckhart Guthöhrlein wrote:
> From: Eckhart Guthöhrlein <eckhart.guthoehrlein@uni-bielefeld.de>
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:15:04 +0200
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] TABLE: spacing, before/after
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i
> 
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 at 10:04:09-0400, Paul Tremblay wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:09:11AM +0200, Eckhart Guthöhrlein wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > three questions:
> > > - How can I control horizontal spacing of columns in natural tables?
> > > - What about vertical spacing?
> > > - How can I insert material after/before each cell, something like
> > > 	\setuptable[row][first][before=bla bla] ?
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Eckhart,
> > 
> > I think you might find some of the answers here:
> > 
> > http://getfo.sourceforge.net/context_xml/page5.html#id2258730
> 
> Nice overview, Paul. I had a quick glance, but I'm afraid the questions
> above are not addressed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> > setupTABLE[r][1][heigth=24pt]
> > setupTABLE[c][odd][width=12pt]
> > % the page gives more examples
> > 
> > Sorry if this is not what you are looking for.
> 
> Well, not exactly. By default, a column has the width of its widest
> entry. Using width=5cm, I can only define the absolute width of a
> column. But what I want is to increase the separation of adjectant
> columns. Whether this is achieved by adding space between columns or by
> setting their width to a certain amount wider than their natural width
> doesn't matter to me.
> You have already experienced the absence of a desirable feature
> yourself, but let me point out once again that this cannot be achieved
> by setting the rulethickness of the cell frame, since it is not possible
> to change left/right thickness from the top/bottom one, and frames are
> invisible but still take space if you deactivate them via e.g.
> topframe=off.
> Thanks for your page - it's surely of help, especially for newcomers,
> since tables (and the many different possibilities to produce them) are
> cumbersome in context.
> 
> Greetings,

Yes, I agree with the limitations of the TABLE module. Sorry I
couldn't provide any better answer. 

When I get a chance, I'll put something on the page stating that a
limitation of TABLE is the inability to set the space between columns.

(Is it possible to set the space between columns using the more
standard table module? I realize I didn't document this at all.)

Paul

-- 

************************
*Paul Tremblay         *
*phthenry@iglou.com    *
************************

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Eckhart Guthöhrlein]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 at 12:19:28-0400, Paul Tremblay wrote:
> Yes, I agree with the limitations of the TABLE module. Sorry I
> couldn't provide any better answer. 
> 
> When I get a chance, I'll put something on the page stating that a
> limitation of TABLE is the inability to set the space between columns.

Well, maybe it will be possible for Hans to include support for the
missing features in a future release. To sum it up once again, what I
am missing:
- control over column and row spacing
- material before/after a cell, e.g. \setupTABLE[row][first][before=bla]
- command hooks like \setupTABLE[1][3][hook=\dowithentry]

> (Is it possible to set the space between columns using the more
> standard table module? I realize I didn't document this at all.)

I have never tried it, but I think so. At the beginning of core-tbl,
column modifiers i, j and k are claimed to do this. Since tabulate uses
the same column specifiers as table, they should work with both.
Untested ;-)

-- 
Eckhart

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Paul Tremblay]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 08:56:58PM +0200, Eckhart Guthöhrlein wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 at 12:19:28-0400, Paul Tremblay wrote:
> > Yes, I agree with the limitations of the TABLE module. Sorry I
> > couldn't provide any better answer. 
> > 
> > When I get a chance, I'll put something on the page stating that a
> > limitation of TABLE is the inability to set the space between columns.
> 
> Well, maybe it will be possible for Hans to include support for the
> missing features in a future release. To sum it up once again, what I
> am missing:
> - control over column and row spacing
> - material before/after a cell, e.g. \setupTABLE[row][first][before=bla]
> - command hooks like \setupTABLE[1][3][hook=\dowithentry]

I'm not sure what hooks are! I assume the before could be something
like \blankspace? 

> 
> > (Is it possible to set the space between columns using the more
> > standard table module? I realize I didn't document this at all.)
> 
> I have never tried it, but I think so. At the beginning of core-tbl,
> column modifiers i, j and k are claimed to do this. Since tabulate uses
> the same column specifiers as table, they should work with both.
> Untested ;-)
> 

I need to start thinking before I type! I have this in my tutorial. I
guess I assumed you get the same result with TABLE by simple making a
column very wide (width=25cm).

Paul

-- 

************************
*Paul Tremblay         *
*phthenry@iglou.com    *
************************

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Eckhart Guthöhrlein]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 at 15:43:57-0400, Paul Tremblay wrote:
> > Well, maybe it will be possible for Hans to include support for the
> > missing features in a future release. To sum it up once again, what I
> > am missing:
> > - control over column and row spacing
> > - material before/after a cell, e.g. \setupTABLE[row][first][before=bla]
> > - command hooks like \setupTABLE[1][3][hook=\dowithentry]
> 
> I'm not sure what hooks are! I assume the before could be something
> like \blankspace? 

Hook means that the table cell contents are passed to the specified
command as an argument. You could use \uppercased for example to
capitalize an entry.
And indeed, I was thinking of controlling horizontal spacing by saying
something like before=\hskip1em.
I really do hope that natural tables will be further developed, since
these are the only things I can see that are available only using the
older mechanisms. And natural tables can do so many additional cool
things that I don't want to use anything else.

-- 
Eckhart

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Hans Hagen]

Eckhart Guthöhrlein wrote:

>>- control over column and row spacing
>>- material before/after a cell, e.g. \setupTABLE[row][first][before=bla]
>>- command hooks like \setupTABLE[1][3][hook=\dowithentry]
> 
> 
> Hi Hans,
> 
> sorry for being a pain in the neck, but is there any chance that this
> will be supported by natural tables in the near future?
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not demanding anything, I just need to know so
> that I can do it differently otherwise.

it depends on what near is ...

if you want a hook, try something:

\starttext

\def\TBLcharalign#1#2{hooked {\bf #2} on tables}

\bTABLE
\bTR \bTD aa\eTD \bTD bb\eTD \eTR
\bTR \bTD aa\eTD \bTD bb\eTD \eTR
\bTR \bTD aa\eTD \bTD bb\eTD \eTR
\bTR \bTD aa\eTD \bTD bb\eTD \eTR
\bTR \bTD aa\eTD \bTD bb\eTD \eTR
\eTABLE

\stoptext

if you remind me in a couple of weeks i can see if i can generalize it; hooks 
are a bit tricky because one also needs to know in what pass on is (there are 
multiple passes in constructing the table)

before ... after cell, is probably doable but need some thinking (keep in mind 
that these tables need to span and such; not really complex but needs to be done 
carefully

between rows ... tricky since that may interfere with splitting; maybe doable 
when some limitations are accepted

Hans


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-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: TABLE: spacing, before/after

[Eckhart Guthöhrlein]

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 at 23:09:35+0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> if you want a hook, try something:
> 
> \def\TBLcharalign#1#2{hooked {\bf #2} on tables}

Not bad for the moment. Well, it interferes with alignemntcharachter,
and of course one would like to use a certain hook for a selection of
cells only. But...

> if you remind me in a couple of weeks i can see if i can generalize it; 
> hooks are a bit tricky because one also needs to know in what pass on is 
> (there are multiple passes in constructing the table)

I will remind you, as well as of the other points.

> before ... after cell, is probably doable but need some thinking (keep in 
> mind that these tables need to span and such; not really complex but needs 
> to be done carefully
> 
> between rows ... tricky since that may interfere with splitting; maybe 
> doable when some limitations are accepted

Thanks a lot so far,
-- 
Eckhart