Manual (English) Update soon?

Manual (English) Update soon?

[Douglas Philips]

Hello again,

I've just recently tried to "get up to speed" on ConTeXt by reading  
what I could find on the web, including
cont-eni.pdf (ConTeXt the manual by Hans Hagen, November 12th, 2001).

Recent activity on this list, discussing the Debian packaging, says  
(and I commented on this a few days ago in another thread):
"ConTeXt is developed rapidly, often in response to requests from the  
friendly user community."

And so I am wondering if ConTeXt is still too fresh... and if I'll  
have any chance of figuring out what/how to use it without having  
been on this list for the past 4+ years...
(IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should  
just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?)

Advice, comments, etc. appreciated...

	--Doug

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Douglas Philips wrote:

> Hello again,
> 
> I've just recently tried to "get up to speed" on ConTeXt by reading 
> what I could find on the web, including
> cont-eni.pdf (ConTeXt the manual by Hans Hagen, November 12th, 2001).

That is the most up to date manual and should get you started for most 
of the basic features. The features that are not in the manual are 
mostly related to specific needs, so you can get around even if you do 
not know about them. Some My Ways discuss some of these undocumented 
features.

> Recent activity on this list, discussing the Debian packaging, says 
> (and I commented on this a few days ago in another thread):
> "ConTeXt is developed rapidly, often in response to requests from the 
> friendly user community."
> 
> And so I am wondering if ConTeXt is still too fresh... and if I'll 
> have any chance of figuring out what/how to use it without having 
> been on this list for the past 4+ years...

Just give it a shot. The is "Latex in proper context" by Berend de 
Boer which can help in the transition. The general information on 
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt is also useful. 
Context is very stable, and much better documented than latex. You can 
start with small documents in context to get comfortable with it. The 
best documents to start are those where you do not have a strict 
formatting requirement, so that you do not need to worry if you can 
not get something working.

> (IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should 
> just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?)

LuaTeX is not a replacement for LaTeX. It is a replacement for pdfTeX.

For the normal user, LuaTeX is not going to make too much of a 
different. It will make things a lot easier if you want to write 
really complicated macros. With context, the user will not even notice 
the change, other than some improvement in speed, and some of the 
pending feature requests getting implemented. So, if you are planning 
on switching to context, there is no real need to wait for luatex.

Read "Context an excursion" and "Latex in proper context" to get 
started, and keep scanning through "Context the manual". If you are 
stuck, search the wiki and the mailing list, and if you can not figure 
it out, ask on the list.

HTH,
Aditya

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Douglas Philips]

On 2006 Dec 28, at 5:00 PM, Aditya Mahajan indited:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Douglas Philips wrote:
>> cont-eni.pdf (ConTeXt the manual by Hans Hagen, November 12th, 2001).
>
> That is the most up to date manual and should get you started for most
> of the basic features. The features that are not in the manual are
> mostly related to specific needs, so you can get around even if you do
> not know about them. Some My Ways discuss some of these undocumented
> features.

The undocumented features are documented in My Ways? :-)
I found a few of those also, and it is very confusing to a newbie  
(such as myself) to figure out what is old and valid and what is old  
and not-so-valid...

> Just give it a shot. The is "Latex in proper context" by Berend de
> Boer which can help in the transition. The general information on
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt is also useful.

Cool, thanks!

> Context is very stable, and much better documented than latex. You can
> start with small documents in context to get comfortable with it. The
> best documents to start are those where you do not have a strict
> formatting requirement, so that you do not need to worry if you can
> not get something working.

:-) That would be ideal. However, I'm looking to change horses  
because the documents I am already producing (newsletters for local  
groups (all volunteer)) are straining at what LaTeX wants me to do.
So, I've been contemplating whether I should move "up" the  
abstraction ladder to ConTeXt or "down"
to plain TeX and really learn to build the world from boxes and  
glue. :-)
I'd rather move up. :-) :-)


>> (IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should
>> just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?)
>
> LuaTeX is not a replacement for LaTeX. It is a replacement for pdfTeX.
> ...
> pending feature requests getting implemented. So, if you are planning
> on switching to context, there is no real need to wait for luatex.

OK. Wasn't sure...


> HTH,
> Aditya

Yes, it did/does, thank you!

--Doug

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 12/29/06, Douglas Philips wrote:
> On 2006 Dec 28, at 5:00 PM, Aditya Mahajan indited:
> > On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Douglas Philips wrote:
> >> cont-eni.pdf (ConTeXt the manual by Hans Hagen, November 12th, 2001).
> >
> > That is the most up to date manual and should get you started for most
> > of the basic features. The features that are not in the manual are
> > mostly related to specific needs, so you can get around even if you do
> > not know about them. Some My Ways discuss some of these undocumented
> > features.
>
> The undocumented features are documented in My Ways? :-)

Esp. the two MyWay's written by the author who mentioned that ;)
If you write a lot of maths, it's worth reading them.
plain TeX math is still valid, but there were some additions which can
simplify writing and enumerating your exotic formulas.

See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/My_Way

Most other MyWay's deal with fonts.

> I found a few of those also, and it is very confusing to a newbie
> (such as myself) to figure out what is old and valid and what is old
> and not-so-valid...

I don't have a good overview, but I don't know that many
"not-so-valid" things. Most "drastic" differences might have been made
in the area of fonts (and things will probably have to be improved
further once there will be native OpenType support available), textext
should better be replaced with \sometxt{} in metapost graphics and
you're discouraged to use the Dutch interface for low-level commands
;)

I don't remember much more than that. There have been drastic
improvements behind the scenes, but that should go unnoticed to the
user (except for noting that ConTeXt now runs much faster than three
years ago). Old things are still valid, there might only be some new
things that you might not know about once you've read the manual.
(plain) TeX is about 25 and still "valid". Only that there are "a few
commands available out there" which can simplify things.

Mojca

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Douglas Philips]

On 2006 Dec 29, at 10:04 PM, Mojca Miklavec indited:
> On 12/29/06, Douglas Philips wrote:
>> The undocumented features are documented in My Ways? :-)
>
> Esp. the two MyWay's written by the author who mentioned that ;)

:-)

I see you also have one... all of which are next up on my Sunday  
afternoon reading!

> See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/My_Way

Thanks!

> Most other MyWay's deal with fonts.

Arg. My bane. Fonts. The one thing that pulls me ever so slightly to  
using Pages...
Not because I want a garish mix of goofball junk fonts, but because I  
love Palatino for newletters
and Papyrus for cards and short notes...
I figured out how to get Palatino into LaTeX, but use other programs  
(so far) to get Papyrus...


>> I found a few of those also, and it is very confusing to a newbie
>> (such as myself) to figure out what is old and valid and what is old
>> and not-so-valid...
>
> I don't have a good overview, but I don't know that many
> "not-so-valid" things.

Thanks, that is good to know...


> Old things are still valid, there might only be some new
> things that you might not know about once you've read the manual.
> (plain) TeX is about 25 and still "valid". Only that there are "a few
> commands available out there" which can simplify things.

The more I look into it, the more I feel that ConTeXt is going in a  
direction more helpful to me than LaTeX. No comment intended on the  
"correctness" of either direction, just on the harmony with where I  
am going.

--Doug

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2006-12-30 um 10:28 schrieb Douglas Philips:

> Arg. My bane. Fonts. The one thing that pulls me ever so slightly to
> using Pages...
> Not because I want a garish mix of goofball junk fonts, but because I
> love Palatino for newletters
> and Papyrus for cards and short notes...
> I figured out how to get Palatino into LaTeX, but use other programs
> (so far) to get Papyrus...

Using Palatino with ConTeXt is no problem (it used to be URW Palladio  
and is TeX Gyre Pagella nowadays, which contains a lot of more glyphs  
than any "original" Palatino).

If you can't figure it out (it's no beginner's task), I'll write the  
Papyrus files for you.

BTW, there are some ConTeXt font packages on my homepage, but I can't  
remember of all of them are up to date...

Have a look at
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/TypeScripts
and
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/?menu=0-1-4&lang=en


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

> So, I've been contemplating whether I should move "up" the
> abstraction ladder to ConTeXt or "down" to plain TeX and really
> learn to build the world from boxes and glue. :-)

I wrote my dissertation using plain TeX plus eplain, and spent several
days learning about insertions so that I could float figures in the
margin.  It looked decent, but I got tired of maintaining and
improving the macro hackery, so I decided to leap over LaTeX to
ConTeXt.  I use LaTeX under duress (e.g. journal gives you a style
file).  But for any document where I decide the layout, I use ConTeXt,
and I'm very happy with the decision to leap.

Here is a hello-world template that I just wrote.  It contains many of
the ConTeXt commands that I use most frequently.  Maybe it should go
on the wiki?

-Sanjoy


% "Hello world!" document for the ConTeXt typesetting system
%
% === History ===
% 2006-12-29  Sanjoy Mahajan  <sanjoy@mit.edu>
%     * Created
% 
% This document is the public domain (no copyright).

\setupcolors[state=start]       % otherwise you get greyscale
\definecolor[headingcolor][r=1,b=0.4]

% for the document info/catalog (reported by 'pdfinfo', for example)
\setupinteraction[state=start,  % make hyperlinks active, etc.
  title={Hello world!},
  subtitle={A ConTeXt template},
  author={Sanjoy Mahajan},
  keyword={template}]

% useful urls
\useURL[author-email][mailto:a.u.thor@somewhere.edu][][a.u.thor@somewhere.edu]
\useURL[wiki][http://wiki.contextgarden.net][][\ConTeXt\ wiki]
\useURL[sanjoy][mailto:sanjoy@mit.edu][][sanjoy@mit.edu]

% for US paper; the sensible default is [A4][A4] (A4 typesetting,
% printed on A4 paper)
\setuppapersize[letter][letter]
\setuplayout[topspace=0.5in, backspace=1in, header=24pt, footer=36pt,
  height=middle, width=middle]
% uncomment the next line to see the layout
% \showframe

% headers and footers
\setupfooter[style=\it]
\setupfootertexts[\date\hfill \ConTeXt\ template]
\setuppagenumbering[location={header,right}, style=bold]

\setupbodyfont[11pt]            % default is 12pt

\setuphead[section,chapter,subject][color=headingcolor]
\setuphead[section,subject][style={\ss\bfa},
  before={\bigskip\bigskip}, after={}]
\setuphead[chapter][style={\ss\bfd}]
\setuphead[title][style={\ss\bfd},
  before={\begingroup\setupbodyfont[14.4pt]},
  after={\leftline{\ss\tfa A. U. Thor $\langle$\from[author-email]$\rangle$}
         \bigskip\bigskip\endgroup}]

\setupitemize[inbetween={}, style=bold]

% set inter-paragraph spacing
\setupwhitespace[medium]
% comment the next line to not indent paragraphs
\setupindenting[medium, yes]

\starttext

\title{Hello, world!}

Here is a hello-world template document to illustrates a few \ConTeXt\
features.  Have fun.  You can find a lot more information at
\from[wiki]; the preceding text should be colored and clickable, and
clicking it should take you to the wiki.

\subject{A list}

Here is an example of a list.

\startitemize[a]                % tags are lowercase letters
\item first
\item second
\item third
\stopitemize

\subject{Math}

An equation can be typeset inline like $e^{\pi i}+1=0$, or as a
displayed formula:
\startformula
\int_0^\infty t^4 e^{-t}\,dt = 24.
\stopformula
% don't use $$...$$ (the plain TeX equivalent)
You can also have numbered equations:
\placeformula[eq:factorial-example]\startformula
\int_0^\infty t^5 e^{-t}\,dt = 120.
\stopformula
And you can refer to them by name. I called the previous equation {\tt
factorial-example}, and it is equation \in[eq:factorial-example].
\ConTeXt\ figures out the number for you.  And with interaction turned
on, you can click on the equation number to get to the equation.

\subject{Text with figures}

Now text with a few figures.  The first figure goes on the right, with
the paragraph flowing around it.

\placefigure[right,none]{}{\externalfigure[dummy]}

\input tufte

The next figure will go inline, like a displayed formula:
\placefigure[here,none]{}{\externalfigure[dummy]}
\input tufte

Here's another reference to the numbered equation -- equation
\in[eq:factorial-example] on \at{page}[eq:factorial-example], so that
you can test clicking on it or on the page reference.

% most plain TeX commands work
\vfill

\noindent 
\framed[corner=round, width=\textwidth,height=1in,
backgroundcolor=gray,background=color]
{This document is in the public domain, so that you can improve it, share
it, and otherwise do what you want with it.  
Suggestions are welcome.  You can send them to me
at \from[sanjoy] (Sanjoy Mahajan).}

\stoptext

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Douglas Philips]

On 2006 Dec 30, at 12:47 AM, Sanjoy Mahajan indited:
>> So, I've been contemplating whether I should move "up" the
>> abstraction ladder to ConTeXt or "down" to plain TeX and really
>> learn to build the world from boxes and glue. :-)
>
> I wrote my dissertation using plain TeX plus eplain,
> ...
> I got tired of maintaining and improving the macro hackery, so I  
> decided to leap over LaTeX to ConTeXt.

Yes, that is an issue. As was pointed out earlier in this thread,  
'packages' tend to lose support once they're released, so ConTeXt at  
least has a coherent architecture which, gathering from what I've  
read on this list, counteracts that.

> Here is a hello-world template that I just wrote.  It contains many of
> the ConTeXt commands that I use most frequently.

Cool, thank you! Another sunday after noon (as in 18 hours from now)  
project!

--Doug

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Rolf Marvin Bøe Lindgren]

On 30. des. 2006, at 6:47, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:

> \setupindenting[medium, yes]

ConTeXt seems to choke on the "yes" here.

-- 
Rolf Lindgren
roffe@extern.uio.no

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

Rolf Lindgren writes:
> > \setupindenting[medium, yes]
> 
> ConTeXt seems to choke on the "yes" here.

Hmm, texshow says lists 'yes' and 'medium' as valid keywords.  What
ConTeXt version are you using?  Can you post the error log?  I had no
problems running the whole hello-world file through the 2006.12.27
ConTeXt (Linux, i386).

-Sanjoy

`Not all those who wander are lost.' (J.R.R. Tolkien)

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Rolf Marvin Bøe Lindgren]

On 30. des. 2006, at 7:38, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:

> Rolf Lindgren writes:
>>> \setupindenting[medium, yes]
>>
>> ConTeXt seems to choke on the "yes" here.
>
> Hmm, texshow says lists 'yes' and 'medium' as valid keywords.  What
> ConTeXt version are you using?  Can you post the error log?  I had no
> problems running the whole hello-world file through the 2006.12.27
> ConTeXt (Linux, i386).

never mind, I use the

	ConTeXt  ver: 2005.01.31  fmt: 2006.12.26  int: english  mes: english

which comes with a collection of Linux ports for the Mac. methinks it  
needs to be updated.

-- 
Rolf Lindgren
roffe@extern.uio.no

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 12/28/06, Douglas Philips wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I've just recently tried to "get up to speed" on ConTeXt by reading
> what I could find on the web, including
> cont-eni.pdf (ConTeXt the manual by Hans Hagen, November 12th, 2001).
>
> Recent activity on this list, discussing the Debian packaging, says
> (and I commented on this a few days ago in another thread):
> "ConTeXt is developed rapidly, often in response to requests from the
> friendly user community."

Well, the ConTeXt manual is one of the most stable components of
ConTeXt indeed ;)

But consider it from the bright side:
yes, it's still fully usable (after two years of using ConTeXt it's
still hard to do anything without using it), everything mentioned
there should still work (unless there has been some bug introduced in
the mean time) and the major functionality has been there at that time
already.

Yes, there have been many improvements since then, but if I'm looking
for a particular one, there's still google, grep (my best friend) and
a friendly mailing list which has been following ConTeXt development
for the last five years. Major things have been mentioned in one of
the other hundred of the manuals (nice reading for long rainy nights),
additional options can sometimes only be found in source.

That's surely no excuse for not refreshing the manual, but there's no
excuse for not sharing your experience on the wiki or web version of
texshow either.


But to be honest: what if you were using LaTeX? I don't know any page
or book where all the packages would be described. Sure, the best,
most widely used package make it into books with time, but for the
others you can't do anything without mailing lists and search engines
either. And then you learn to use one package which becomes obsolete
and unmaintained, so after two years when you finally become
comfortable with it you figure out that it would make sense to switch
to another better package, the same story after two years ... At least
that's what I experience with packages for graphics: I've learnt
picTeX with troubles just to figure out that it's completely useless,
then there was some other don't-remember-which package, still too poor
to do anything there, then I finally discovered PSTricks which became
kind-of-obsolete with pdfTeX or XeTeX. The same story with just about
any package for creating slides or changing page layout, headers,
footers (and they all took a lot of time to learn how to use them),
not to mention the changes in base LaTeX (documentstyle ->
documentclass{article} -> Komma script) and the fact that most
packages become unmaintained after they have been written.

> And so I am wondering if ConTeXt is still too fresh...

It's always full of surprizes. But what do you mean with "too fresh"?
If you're worried that your colleagues don't have the latest version
of ConTeXt installed (and thus won't be able to compile your code)
then you're probably right. (But if you want to use the latest packeg
from LaTeX, there's even more chance that they won't have it. In
ConTeXt you know at least that downloading one thing should suffice.)

> and if I'll
> have any chance of figuring out what/how to use it without having
> been on this list for the past 4+ years...

Take it from the bright side: even if you were on the list, you
wouldn't have time to follow it unless you were a student ;)

And take it from the bright side again: tetex on most linux
distributions is just as old as the manual, so you wouldn't be missing
much ;)

> (IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should
> just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?)

No reason for, as Aditya already mentioned.

In my opinion "It makes no sense to wait for solar-energy car before
you start doing your driver's licence. Unless you intend to design or
produce cars, you shouldn't even notice the difference."

Mojca

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[John R. Culleton]

On Thursday 28 December 2006 19:43, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 then I finally discovered PSTricks which became
> kind-of-obsolete with pdfTeX or XeTeX. The same story with just about
> any package for creating slides or changing page layout, headers,
> footers (and they all took a lot of time to learn how to use them),
> not to mention the changes in base LaTeX (documentstyle ->
> documentclass{article} -> Komma script) and the fact that most
> packages become unmaintained after they have been written.
>
Jut FYI PSTricks (which runs on Plain TeX as well as LaTeX) can be run as part 
of Context. It requires loading a module and an extra pass.  Like many of 
the "undocumented" modules there is actually documentation in the module 
itself.  I suspect that if all the documentation in the source code were 
collected and organized in some way we would have a new Context Manual. 
> > And so I am wondering if ConTeXt is still too fresh...
>
If I have a simple job I use pdftex. If the layout gets complicated at all, or 
I need to impose a smaller page on a full size page, or anything else like 
that I turn to Context.
 
> It's always full of surprizes. But what do you mean with "too fresh"?
> If you're worried that your colleagues don't have the latest version
> of ConTeXt installed (and thus won't be able to compile your code)
> then you're probably right. (But if you want to use the latest packeg
> from LaTeX, there's even more chance that they won't have it. In
> ConTeXt you know at least that downloading one thing should suffice.)
>
The bad thing about Context is that many errors in parameters etc. are simply 
not reported when you compile a document.  One of the many good things is 
that the elaborate structure is there but not required.  Most plain TeX  (the 
old stuff) documents will run under Context.  Make a file with:

Hello world
\bye

and run it through Context. It will work. But with LaTeX you must have a LaTeX 
specific statement or two or it won't work. 

> > and if I'll
> > have any chance of figuring out what/how to use it without having
> > been on this list for the past 4+ years...
>

I store all messages on this list forever in a directory.  It is more 
convenient for me to search that directory  than on the wiki.  My earliest is 
dated in April 2002.

Font handling is a bear but font handling in any version of TeX more complex 
than plain is a bear. 
 

-- 
John Culleton
Able Indexing and Typesetting
Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost.
Satisfaction guaranteed. 
http://wexfordpress.com

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 18:58:25 -0700, John R. Culleton  
<john@wexfordpress.com> wrote:

>  Most plain TeX  (the
> old stuff) documents will run under Context.

Careful! This only works with a subset of Plain TeX documents. Don't  
remember any examples off hand (digging out of the second blizzard in a  
week!), but don't be surprised if a plain document does not do what you  
expect...

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Douglas Philips]

On 2006 Dec 28, at 7:43 PM, Mojca Miklavec indited:
> Well, the ConTeXt manual is one of the most stable components of
> ConTeXt indeed ;)

:-)

> But consider it from the bright side:
> yes, it's still fully usable (after two years of using ConTeXt it's
> still hard to do anything without using it), everything mentioned
> there should still work (unless there has been some bug introduced in
> the mean time) and the major functionality has been there at that  
> time already.

Thanks, that is reassuring to hear.


> That's surely no excuse for not refreshing the manual, but there's no
> excuse for not sharing your experience on the wiki or web version of
> texshow either.

:-) Keeping the manuals up to date is hard work, which is a lot of  
why there is a push (in general) to have source generated docs, but  
that isn't easy either... I know.


> not to mention the changes in base LaTeX (documentstyle ->
> documentclass{article} -> Komma script) and the fact that most
> packages become unmaintained after they have been written.

True. And the worst part of it (having used LaTeX, and still on the  
precipice of using ConTeXt) is the incompatibilities and the lack of  
"ok, so which of these packages works with which others?" annoyance  
(which oft becomes frustration).


>> And so I am wondering if ConTeXt is still too fresh...
>
> It's always full of surprizes. But what do you mean with "too fresh"?
> If you're worried that your colleagues don't have the latest version
> of ConTeXt installed (and thus won't be able to compile your code)
> then you're probably right. (But if you want to use the latest packeg
> from LaTeX, there's even more chance that they won't have it. In
> ConTeXt you know at least that downloading one thing should suffice.)

Fair enough. I'm not sure, however, how that all plays out when it  
comes to using something like TeXLive (on a Mac, as if that matters)  
and the meta-issue of keeping a working TeX install coherent (and  
working)...

> Take it from the bright side: even if you were on the list, you
> wouldn't have time to follow it unless you were a student ;)

:-)  !!!


> And take it from the bright side again: tetex on most linux
> distributions is just as old as the manual, so you wouldn't be  
> missing much ;)

Well, that is an interesting argument. Fortunately my TeX and LaTeX  
usage has been such that I haven't run into a lot of bugs, so the  
drumbeat of upgrade-upgrade-upgrade-upgrade has been too soft to  
hear. Usually what drives a change is wanting to use a layout which  
doesn't fit the LaTeX direction. I don't make books or academic  
papers, so I'm not in the center of the fairway, heck, I'm not even  
in the weeds, I'm in a bowling alley! :-)

> In my opinion "It makes no sense to wait for solar-energy car before
> you start doing your driver's licence. Unless you intend to design or
> produce cars, you shouldn't even notice the difference."

Thanks I deeply wish to not notice the difference!

	--Doug

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[andrea valle]

>
Well, maybe I'm missing something.
But if you need to use ConTeXt on a mac you can use Gerben's distro, 
which also set up a crontab for you, and when you update it simply does 
all the boring stuff for you (I hate TeX tree structure ...)

http://ii2.sourceforge.net/tex-index.html

Best

-a-


> Fair enough. I'm not sure, however, how that all plays out when it
> comes to using something like TeXLive (on a Mac, as if that matters)
> and the meta-issue of keeping a working TeX install coherent (and
> working)...
Andrea Valle
DAMS - Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
http://www.semiotiche.it/andrea
andrea.valle@unito.it

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Douglas Philips]

On 2006 Dec 29, at 2:22 PM, andrea valle indited:

> Well, maybe I'm missing something.
> But if you need to use ConTeXt on a mac you can use Gerben's distro,
> which also set up a crontab for you, and when you update it simply  
> does
> all the boring stuff for you (I hate TeX tree structure ...)

Gerben has announced end-of-life for his distro system. Well, end of  
support...
except for ConTeXt because of the automation that ConTeXt provides  
for his
packaging needs.

Perhaps that would "play well" with TeX Live '06...

--Doug

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[plink]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> Well, the ConTeXt manual is one of the most stable components of
> ConTeXt indeed ;)

;-)

should be wikified ...

>> (IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should
>> just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?)
> 
> No reason for, as Aditya already mentioned.

Except if you need some more processing of the TeX contents, like some 
people do :-(

In that case, since the mkiv stuff isn't available, currently you either 
have to switch to "plain" luatex or to use ConTeXt with pdftex and maybe 
weave another layer of ruby around the script onion that texexec had 
become.
Both ways don't really come close to the zen of ConTeXt TeXnology, I 
would assume.

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Douglas Philips]

On 2006 Dec 29, at 12:38 PM, plink indited:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> Well, the ConTeXt manual is one of the most stable components of  
>> ConTeXt indeed ;)
>
> ;-)
>
> should be wikified ...

Probably, but it'd be sad to lose the ability to download and print  
it for offline reading (I may be in a small minority of people who  
like to read reference manuals though)... I'm also not familiar  
enough with the wiki being used to know if there is anyway for it to  
agregate a bunch of pages into a reasonably printable form....

	--Doug

Re: Manual (English) Update soon?

[Hans Hagen]

plink wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>   
>> Well, the ConTeXt manual is one of the most stable components of
>> ConTeXt indeed ;)
>>     
>
> ;-)
>
> should be wikified ...
>
>   
>>> (IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should
>>> just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?)
>>>       
>> No reason for, as Aditya already mentioned.
>>     
>
> Except if you need some more processing of the TeX contents, like some 
> people do :-(
>
> In that case, since the mkiv stuff isn't available, currently you either 
> have to switch to "plain" luatex or to use ConTeXt with pdftex and maybe 
> weave another layer of ruby around the script onion that texexec had 
> become.
> Both ways don't really come close to the zen of ConTeXt TeXnology, I 
> would assume.
>   
i'm currently cleaning up some luatex code (mostly the lua part); i will puts some mkiv code on line as soon as that is done; however keep in mind that this code is stil converging to an optimum (test code is not the same as production code -) 

Hans   

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