Sort bibliography by authors

Sort bibliography by authors

[Aditya Mahajan]

Hi Taco,

Is it possible to sort by the bibliography list by authors? The manual 
says that sorttype=cite|bib?

Also, why does bibl-ams not define 'conference'? This can have the 
exact same definition as 'inproceedings'.

Aditya

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Taco Hoekwater]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> Hi Taco,
> 
> Is it possible to sort by the bibliography list by authors? The manual 
> says that sorttype=cite|bib?

No, because there is no reasonable way to do alphabetic sorting
in TeX.

> Also, why does bibl-ams not define 'conference'? This can have the 
> exact same definition as 'inproceedings'.

That is just an oversight, I all it in the next update.

Best, Taco

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

>> Is it possible to sort by the bibliography list by authors? The manual 
>> says that sorttype=cite|bib?
> No, because there is no reasonable way to do alphabetic sorting
> in TeX.

Perhaps I will reveal my own fundamental confusion about bibtex but: 

What about letting bibtex (the C program) do the miserable work of
alphabetic sorting?  Then ConTeXt could typeset (the necessary subset
of) bib items in that order.

-Sanjoy

`Not all those who wander are lost.' (J.R.R. Tolkien)

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[John R. Culleton]

On Sunday 04 February 2007 06:51, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> >> Is it possible to sort by the bibliography list by authors? The manual
> >> says that sorttype=cite|bib?
> >
> > No, because there is no reasonable way to do alphabetic sorting
> > in TeX.
>
> Perhaps I will reveal my own fundamental confusion about bibtex but:
>
> What about letting bibtex (the C program) do the miserable work of
> alphabetic sorting?  Then ConTeXt could typeset (the necessary subset
> of) bib items in that order.
>
> -Sanjoy
>
> `Not all those who wander are lost.' (J.R.R. Tolkien)
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

The examples of makeindex (romance language indexing) and Xindy (non-
romance indexing) are pertinent here. All TeX has to do is provide the 
unsorted items at the front end. The external program sorts, summarizes 
provides alphabetic headers etc.  Then TeX reads it in and does the final 
typesetting. A bibtexish program could operate the same way. 
-- 
John Culleton
Able Indexing and Typesetting
Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost.
Satisfaction guaranteed. 
http://wexfordpress.com

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Taco Hoekwater]

Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
>>>Is it possible to sort by the bibliography list by authors? The manual 
>>>says that sorttype=cite|bib?
>>
>>No, because there is no reasonable way to do alphabetic sorting
>>in TeX.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I will reveal my own fundamental confusion about bibtex but: 
> 
> What about letting bibtex (the C program) do the miserable work of
> alphabetic sorting?  Then ConTeXt could typeset (the necessary subset
> of) bib items in that order.

That functionality is there already \setupbibtex[sort=author]

Taco

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
>>>> Is it possible to sort by the bibliography list by authors? The manual
>>>> says that sorttype=cite|bib?
>>>
>>> No, because there is no reasonable way to do alphabetic sorting
>>> in TeX.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps I will reveal my own fundamental confusion about bibtex but:
>>
>> What about letting bibtex (the C program) do the miserable work of
>> alphabetic sorting?  Then ConTeXt could typeset (the necessary subset
>> of) bib items in that order.
>
> That functionality is there already \setupbibtex[sort=author]

Ah, that is exactly what I wanted. I misunderstood 
\setuppublications[sorttype=bib]. I thought that it will sort 
according to the bib file, when it actually sorts according to the bbl 
file. So

\setupbibtex[sort=author]
\setuppublications[sorttype=bib]

gives a bibliography sorted by author.

Thanks,
Aditya

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Johan Sandblom]

But how does one make an edited book be sorted by editors in the same list?

Johan

2007/2/4, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>:
> On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>
> > Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> >>>> Is it possible to sort by the bibliography list by authors? The manual
> >>>> says that sorttype=cite|bib?
> >>>
> >>> No, because there is no reasonable way to do alphabetic sorting
> >>> in TeX.
> >>
> >>
> >> Perhaps I will reveal my own fundamental confusion about bibtex but:
> >>
> >> What about letting bibtex (the C program) do the miserable work of
> >> alphabetic sorting?  Then ConTeXt could typeset (the necessary subset
> >> of) bib items in that order.
> >
> > That functionality is there already \setupbibtex[sort=author]
>
> Ah, that is exactly what I wanted. I misunderstood
> \setuppublications[sorttype=bib]. I thought that it will sort
> according to the bib file, when it actually sorts according to the bbl
> file. So
>
> \setupbibtex[sort=author]
> \setuppublications[sorttype=bib]
>
> gives a bibliography sorted by author.
>
> Thanks,
> Aditya
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>


-- 
Johan Sandblom  N8, MRC, Karolinska sjh
t +46851776108  17176 Stockholm
m +46735521477  Sweden
"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the
will to find out, which is the exact opposite"
- Bertrand Russell

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Feb 4, 2007, at 6:30 PM, Johan Sandblom wrote:

> But how does one make an edited book be sorted by editors in the  
> same list?
>
> Johan
>
That's done automatically; author and editor appear to be treated the  
same way for this sort option. I am wondering if there is a way to  
have edited books in the alphabetic order by title?

Thomas

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Taco Hoekwater]

Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2007, at 6:30 PM, Johan Sandblom wrote:
> 
> 
>>But how does one make an edited book be sorted by editors in the  
>>same list?
>>
>>Johan
>>
> 
> That's done automatically; author and editor appear to be treated the  
> same way for this sort option. I am wondering if there is a way to  
> have edited books in the alphabetic order by title?

What does \setupbibtex[sort=title] do ?

Taco

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Feb 4, 2007, at 7:41 PM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> What does \setupbibtex[sort=title] do ?
>
> Taco

Hi Taco,

I wasn't precise enough: for German bibliographies, there's a  
convention to have works with an author sorted by the author's name  
and edited books by the first word of the title, like so:

[1] Hoekwater, Taco: Title...

[2] Das Xylophon, hrsg. von...% sorted under "X"!!!

sort=title sorts every book by title. I guess the only way to achieve  
this would be by cheating bibtex and putting some tokens in front of  
the author that will be effective for sorting but produce no visible  
output. I have a (very dim) recollection that something like this can  
be done in bibtex, but can't remember how and where, off the top of  
my head.

Best

Thomas

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[Taco Hoekwater]

Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> I wasn't precise enough: for German bibliographies, there's a  
> convention to have works with an author sorted by the author's name  
> and edited books by the first word of the title, like so:

At first I thought: that is really weird. But then I realised that
this is also how edited story collections are sorted in dutch
libraries, so perhaps it is not that weird.

> [1] Hoekwater, Taco: Title...
> [2] Das Xylophon, hrsg. von...% sorted under "X"!!!

Doing the 'Das' thing properly would be a nightmare, But that is
why Bibtex has this \noopsort trick.

rt=title sorts every book by title. I guess the only way to achieve
> this would be by cheating bibtex and putting some tokens in front of  

Adding a specialized sort routine to the context bst file would
not be that hard. If you run a diff between cont-au.bst en cont-ti.bst,
you'll see that they are almost the same. What I need is an exact
description of which bibtex types are affected, and what you think
the name of the sort routine should be for use in \setupbibtex[sort=]

Cheers,

Taco

Re: Sort bibliography by authors

[John R. Culleton]

On Monday 05 February 2007 04:44, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> > I wasn't precise enough: for German bibliographies, there's a
> > convention to have works with an author sorted by the author's name
> > and edited books by the first word of the title, like so:
>
> At first I thought: that is really weird. But then I realised that
> this is also how edited story collections are sorted in dutch
> libraries, so perhaps it is not that weird.
>
> > [1] Hoekwater, Taco: Title...
> > [2] Das Xylophon, hrsg. von...% sorted under "X"!!!
>
> Doing the 'Das' thing properly would be a nightmare, But that is
> why Bibtex has this \noopsort trick.
>
> rt=title sorts every book by title. I guess the only way to achieve
>
> > this would be by cheating bibtex and putting some tokens in front of
>
> Adding a specialized sort routine to the context bst file would
> not be that hard. If you run a diff between cont-au.bst en cont-ti.bst,
> you'll see that they are almost the same. What I need is an exact
> description of which bibtex types are affected, and what you think
> the name of the sort routine should be for use in \setupbibtex[sort=]
>
> Cheers,
>
> Taco
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Going back to my makeindex example, there is a facility there for putting in 
the index item as sorted different from the item as printed Would it be 
possible to add such a sort term? would it work?  The convention with 
makeindex is to put the sort term followed by @ followed by the printed term. 
The bibtex layout is more complex, but possibly for each entry an additional 
specifier such as
SORT =TERMNAME
or
SORT="sortstring"

in the first example the TERMNAME would be AUTHOR, EDITOR or TITLE.
The second example would be for situations where the "das" must be ignored. 
-- 
John Culleton
Able Indexing and Typesetting
Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost.
Satisfaction guaranteed. 
http://wexfordpress.com

Re: ams style for bibliographies

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>> Also, why does bibl-ams not define 'conference'? This can have the
>> exact same definition as 'inproceedings'.
>
> That is just an oversight, I all it in the next update.

Also, shouldn't phdthesis and mastersthesis show the title? 
ams-pln.bst says

FUNCTION {phdthesis}
{ output.bibitem
   format.authors "author" output.check
   format.title "title" output.check
   "Ph.D. thesis" format.thesis.type output.nonnull
   school "school" output.check
   address output
   format.date "year" output.check
   note output
   format.book.pages output
   fin.entry
}

I think the correct translation will be

\setuppublicationlayout[phdthesis]{%
    \insertauthors{}{, }{}%
    \inserttitle{\bgroup\it }{\/\egroup, }
    \insertbibtype{}{, }{Ph.D. thesis, }%
    \insertpublisher{}{, }{}%
    \insertpubyear{(}{)}{}%
    \insertpages{\unskip, }{}{}%
    \insertNote{\unskip. }{.}{\unskip.}%
}


and the same for master's thesis.

Aditya