From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/36852 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Norbert Preining Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context.devel,gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: integrating context mkiv, luatex, and fmtutil, mktexlsr, etc Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:21:06 +0200 Message-ID: <20071003122106.GA3597@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> References: <20071003110634.GA29863@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <47037E8C.7080907@wxs.nl> <20071002135500.GH32335@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <47025A4D.6070404@wxs.nl> <20071003111513.GA31958@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <47037B3C.5030002@wxs.nl> <20071003074824.GW9324@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <47037739.208@wxs.nl> <20071003111038.GB29863@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <47037AF1.4020104@wxs.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1191414352 18364 80.91.229.12 (3 Oct 2007 12:25:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:25:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dev-context@ntg.nl, ntg-context@ntg.nl To: Hans Hagen Original-X-From: dev-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed Oct 03 14:25:49 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctcd-dev-context@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Id3IP-0007kg-J1 for gctcd-dev-context@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:25:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F901FA67; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:25:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 20774-01; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:25:27 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082B31FD47; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:21:19 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06B501FD47; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:21:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 18657-09-8; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:21:08 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mx.logic.tuwien.ac.at (mx.logic.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.175.19]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8DD1FD40; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:21:08 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at ([128.130.175.3] ident=Debian-exim) by mx.logic.tuwien.ac.at with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Id3Du-00032h-JD; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:21:06 +0200 Original-Received: from preining by gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Id3Du-0001Pr-Go; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:21:06 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <47037E8C.7080907@wxs.nl> <47037B3C.5030002@wxs.nl> <47037AF1.4020104@wxs.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: dev-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "ConTeXt developers list. " List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: dev-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: dev-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context.devel:680 gmane.comp.tex.context:36852 Archived-At: On Mi, 03 Okt 2007, Hans Hagen wrote: > formats go to the paths defined in texmf.cnf (TEXFORMATS) and the > filedatabses go alongside the ls-R files, so basically it then behaves > like any other tex ??? "file databases go alongside the ls-R files" what do you mean? I thought the stuff generated by luatools is something like the ls-R database for luatex. But it is placed NOT alongside the ls-R files, right? > the cache path is only used and populated at runtime, so So every time I run a luatex/context document it has to read ALL the trees again??? Cannot be, that was the whole point of ls-R/cache. It should be generated once (the cache). > LUATEXCACHE=$TEXMFVAR/luacache:... > TEXMFSHARECACHE=yes > > should be ok then; if needed, later i can look into a way to share other > cache stuff (say that you generate tmc files for 300 fonts at > installation time) but if i understoof right, the main reason was > formats and file databases Yes, currently the main reason is for ls-R replacement and format location. But font data could be useful, too. My system has quite a lot of fonts ... On Mi, 03 Okt 2007, Hans Hagen wrote: > texexec --make --luatex en [...] > this depends on the value of TEXFORMATS nd what path is first writable Hmm, $ export TEXFORMATS=/home/norbert/.texmf-var/web2c $ texexec --make --luatex en ... TeXExec | using tex engine luatex TeXExec | using tex format path /home/norbert/.texmf-var/web2c/luatex TeXExec | generating tex format cont-en ... Transcript written on cont-en.log. LuaTools | LuaTools | runtime: 0.18 seconds TeXExec | no lua compilations needed TeXExec | TeXExec | tex engine path: /home/norbert/.texmf-var/web2c/luatex TeXExec | TeXExec | TeXExec | runtime: 9.486118 $ ls ~/.texmf-var/web2c/luatex $ ls -l ~/luatex-cache/context/f7d1b3c25487ab1e1035aff1c53b90da/formats/ -rw-r--r-- 1 norbert norbert 5669003 2007-10-03 14:07 cont-en.fmt -rw-r--r-- 1 norbert norbert 38786 2007-10-03 14:07 cont-en.log -rw-r--r-- 1 norbert norbert 159484 2007-10-03 14:07 cont-en.lua -rw-r--r-- 1 norbert norbert 112438 2007-10-03 14:07 cont-en.luc $ So the format is placed in some strange ;-) place under luatex-cache. > btw, reminds me ... is this becoming a cross distribution linux > convention (was already so on the mac) ... no longer root users, but > always a sudu needed? No, Debian does not install sudo at all per default. There is a real root user. ------------- To sum it up: It is a bit unclear what purpose the cache is used for: - ls-R replacement, ie some sort of file database - preprocessed font data cache so that loading the stuff is done faster - formats??? what is saved for this But all of this is somehow static. On a normal system a normal user shouldn't have the necessity to change anything of the above. That should be done at install time of the respective stuff. Furthermore, the cache could be used (no idea whether this is true) for: - single job caching of data wouldn't it be better to keep generated files like this in the cwd, like .aux, etc files - caching of user files like the above, but initiated by the user Again, I don't see any other use than these ones, but please enlighten me what else it is used for. But in this case some mktexlsr-ish approach would make sense. So suggestion, like any TEXMF tree contains a ls-R file, we could have for any TEXMFTREE a lcache/ directory $tree/lcache/ which contains the cache for this tree. Since luatools and other things extract the texmf trees anyway from the TEXMFCNF variable, the cache could be read from there. What was the reason to do the hashing somewhere else but add the md5sums etc for these trees? Best wishes Norbert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Norbert Preining Vienna University of Technology Debian Developer Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AINSWORTH (n.) The length of time it takes to get served in a camera shop. Hence, also, how long we will have to wait for the abolition of income tax or the Second Coming. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff