* Re: [Dev-luatex] State of OpenType support [not found] ` <20080508111138.GA10962@Penguin> @ 2008-05-08 15:53 ` Khaled Hosny 2008-05-08 18:02 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Khaled Hosny @ 2008-05-08 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: ntg-context, Idris Samawi Hamid, Taco Hoekwater [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3124 bytes --] (Moved from lautex mailing list, more bellow) On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 02:11:38PM +0300, Khaled Hosny wrote: > On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:53:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: > > Khaled Hosny wrote: > >> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:22:16PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: > >>> Khaled Hosny wrote: > >>>> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 10:10:23AM +0200, Taco Hoekwater wrote: > >>>>> Hans Hagen wrote: > >>>>>> Khaled Hosny wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I also tried "Nafees Nastaliq" font > >>>>>>> http://www.crulp.org/software/localization/Fonts/nafeesNastaleeq.html > >>>>>>> with also broken result. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> See also the arabic chapter (XIII) in mk.pdf: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> http://pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mk.pdf > >>>>>>> I was actually testing the fonts under its guidance :) > >>>>>> Can you two team up on this issue? the problem is that esp the > >>>>>> scripting part of OT is not really defined, only has de facto > >>>>>> specs i.e. reversed engineered uniscribe. > >>>>> I had a quick look at the font with fontforge. It could that > >>>>> (part of the) problems are related to the fact that most of the > >>>>> glyph encodings > >>>>> in the font do not follow unicode, even though the font claims to be a > >>>>> UnicodeBMP encoded font. It is quite possible that that confuses the > >>>>> contextual analyser in MkIV. > >>>> I'm relaying solely on OpenType here, i.e. the actual glyphs aren't > >>>> encoded and using isol, init, etc features to map characters to the > >>>> appropriate glyphs. > >>>> > >>>> I tested it with two other OpenType implementations, and I got the > >>>> expected result. > >>> this mkmk feature ... > >>> > >>> (1) is it directionally sensitive? some features are marked as r2l, some not > >> > >> No its not, I think r2l is applicable for cursive anchors and should > >> mean nothing here (I was trying some thing but forget to remove it > >> after). > >> I removed r2l marl from all tables (except curs), but this changed > >> nothing. > >> > >>> (2) do you use proper mark -> basemark? or just mark to mark? > > > > keep in mind that when you update your font, you have to remove the > > cached version > > I removed the enteries in fonts/otf of the cache dir, is this enough? > Uploaded Pango output of the same string for comparison, http://khaled.djihed.com/context/ (Note: the dots are marks, not part of the base glyph; the dot is basemark and the haraka is mark). Thanks, Khaled > Khaled > > > > > Hans > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > > tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com > > | www.pragma-pod.nl > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > Khaled Hosny > Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team [-- Attachment #1.2: Digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Dev-luatex] State of OpenType support 2008-05-08 15:53 ` [Dev-luatex] State of OpenType support Khaled Hosny @ 2008-05-08 18:02 ` Hans Hagen 2008-05-09 14:42 ` Khaled Hosny 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-05-08 18:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Khaled Hosny; +Cc: ntg-context, Idris Samawi Hamid, Taco Hoekwater Khaled Hosny wrote: > (Moved from lautex mailing list, more bellow) char 1614 and 1617 are to be relatively positioned using mkmk, so we need a mark and a basemark match an donly anchor-11 qualifies as basemark but ... { ["anchors"]={ ["basemark"]={["Anchor-11"]={["x"]=0,["y"]=250,},}, ["mark"]={["Anchor-13"]={["x"]=0,["y"]=-100,},["Anchor-7" ]={["x"]=0,["y"]=0,},}, }, ["name"]="shadda", ["unicode"]=1617, }, { ["anchors"]={ ["mark"]={["Anchor-13"]={["x"]=0,["y"]=-100,},["Anchor-7"]={["x"]=0,["y"]=0,},}, }, ["name"]="fatha", ["unicode"]=1614, }, there is no mark reference in 1614 ... i'm not that fluent in fontforge so i cannot play further > On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 02:11:38PM +0300, Khaled Hosny wrote: >> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:53:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >>> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>>> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:22:16PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >>>>> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 10:10:23AM +0200, Taco Hoekwater wrote: >>>>>>> Hans Hagen wrote: >>>>>>>> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I also tried "Nafees Nastaliq" font >>>>>>>>> http://www.crulp.org/software/localization/Fonts/nafeesNastaleeq.html >>>>>>>>> with also broken result. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> See also the arabic chapter (XIII) in mk.pdf: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mk.pdf >>>>>>>>> I was actually testing the fonts under its guidance :) >>>>>>>> Can you two team up on this issue? the problem is that esp the >>>>>>>> scripting part of OT is not really defined, only has de facto >>>>>>>> specs i.e. reversed engineered uniscribe. >>>>>>> I had a quick look at the font with fontforge. It could that >>>>>>> (part of the) problems are related to the fact that most of the >>>>>>> glyph encodings >>>>>>> in the font do not follow unicode, even though the font claims to be a >>>>>>> UnicodeBMP encoded font. It is quite possible that that confuses the >>>>>>> contextual analyser in MkIV. >>>>>> I'm relaying solely on OpenType here, i.e. the actual glyphs aren't >>>>>> encoded and using isol, init, etc features to map characters to the >>>>>> appropriate glyphs. >>>>>> >>>>>> I tested it with two other OpenType implementations, and I got the >>>>>> expected result. >>>>> this mkmk feature ... >>>>> >>>>> (1) is it directionally sensitive? some features are marked as r2l, some not >>>> No its not, I think r2l is applicable for cursive anchors and should >>>> mean nothing here (I was trying some thing but forget to remove it >>>> after). >>>> I removed r2l marl from all tables (except curs), but this changed >>>> nothing. >>>> >>>>> (2) do you use proper mark -> basemark? or just mark to mark? >>> keep in mind that when you update your font, you have to remove the >>> cached version >> I removed the enteries in fonts/otf of the cache dir, is this enough? >> > > Uploaded Pango output of the same string for comparison, > http://khaled.djihed.com/context/ > (Note: the dots are marks, not part of the base glyph; the dot is > basemark and the haraka is mark). > > Thanks, > Khaled > >> Khaled >> >>> Hans >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE >>> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands >>> tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com >>> | www.pragma-pod.nl >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> Khaled Hosny >> Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Dev-luatex] State of OpenType support 2008-05-08 18:02 ` Hans Hagen @ 2008-05-09 14:42 ` Khaled Hosny 2008-05-09 16:34 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Khaled Hosny @ 2008-05-09 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: ntg-context, Idris Samawi Hamid, Taco Hoekwater [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4624 bytes --] On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 08:02:10PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: > Khaled Hosny wrote: >> (Moved from lautex mailing list, more bellow) > > > > char 1614 and 1617 are to be relatively positioned using mkmk, so we > need a mark and a basemark match an donly anchor-11 qualifies as > basemark but ... Actually, 1617 (shadda) and 1615 (fatha) will form a shadda-fatha ligature, thus there is no proper mkmk anchors between both. But, for example, 1615 (damma) has the appropriate anchor. > > { > ["anchors"]={ > ["basemark"]={["Anchor-11"]={["x"]=0,["y"]=250,},}, > ["mark"]={["Anchor-13"]={["x"]=0,["y"]=-100,},["Anchor-7" > ]={["x"]=0,["y"]=0,},}, > }, > ["name"]="shadda", > ["unicode"]=1617, > }, > > { > ["anchors"]={ > > ["mark"]={["Anchor-13"]={["x"]=0,["y"]=-100,},["Anchor-7"]={["x"]=0,["y"]=0,},}, > }, > ["name"]="fatha", > ["unicode"]=1614, > }, > > there is no mark reference in 1614 ... > > i'm not that fluent in fontforge so i cannot play further > > >> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 02:11:38PM +0300, Khaled Hosny wrote: >>> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:53:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >>>> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>>>> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:22:16PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >>>>>> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 10:10:23AM +0200, Taco Hoekwater wrote: >>>>>>>> Hans Hagen wrote: >>>>>>>>> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I also tried "Nafees Nastaliq" font >>>>>>>>>> http://www.crulp.org/software/localization/Fonts/nafeesNastaleeq.html >>>>>>>>>> with also broken result. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> See also the arabic chapter (XIII) in mk.pdf: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mk.pdf >>>>>>>>>> I was actually testing the fonts under its guidance :) >>>>>>>>> Can you two team up on this issue? the problem is that >>>>>>>>> esp the scripting part of OT is not really defined, only >>>>>>>>> has de facto specs i.e. reversed engineered uniscribe. >>>>>>>> I had a quick look at the font with fontforge. It could >>>>>>>> that (part of the) problems are related to the fact that >>>>>>>> most of the glyph encodings >>>>>>>> in the font do not follow unicode, even though the font claims to be a >>>>>>>> UnicodeBMP encoded font. It is quite possible that that confuses the >>>>>>>> contextual analyser in MkIV. >>>>>>> I'm relaying solely on OpenType here, i.e. the actual glyphs aren't >>>>>>> encoded and using isol, init, etc features to map characters to the >>>>>>> appropriate glyphs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I tested it with two other OpenType implementations, and I got the >>>>>>> expected result. >>>>>> this mkmk feature ... >>>>>> >>>>>> (1) is it directionally sensitive? some features are marked as r2l, some not >>>>> No its not, I think r2l is applicable for cursive anchors and should >>>>> mean nothing here (I was trying some thing but forget to remove it >>>>> after). >>>>> I removed r2l marl from all tables (except curs), but this >>>>> changed nothing. >>>>> >>>>>> (2) do you use proper mark -> basemark? or just mark to mark? >>>> keep in mind that when you update your font, you have to remove the >>>> cached version >>> I removed the enteries in fonts/otf of the cache dir, is this enough? >>> >> >> Uploaded Pango output of the same string for comparison, >> http://khaled.djihed.com/context/ >> (Note: the dots are marks, not part of the base glyph; the dot is >> basemark and the haraka is mark). >> >> Thanks, >> Khaled >> >>> Khaled >>> >>>> Hans >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE >>>> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands >>>> tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com >>>> | www.pragma-pod.nl >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -- >>> Khaled Hosny >>> Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team >> > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com > | www.pragma-pod.nl > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team [-- Attachment #1.2: Digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Dev-luatex] State of OpenType support 2008-05-09 14:42 ` Khaled Hosny @ 2008-05-09 16:34 ` Hans Hagen 2008-05-09 17:11 ` Khaled Hosny 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-05-09 16:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Khaled Hosny; +Cc: ntg-context, Idris Samawi Hamid, Taco Hoekwater Khaled Hosny wrote: > On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 08:02:10PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>> (Moved from lautex mailing list, more bellow) >> >> >> char 1614 and 1617 are to be relatively positioned using mkmk, so we >> need a mark and a basemark match an donly anchor-11 qualifies as >> basemark but ... > > Actually, 1617 (shadda) and 1615 (fatha) will form a shadda-fatha > ligature, thus there is no proper mkmk anchors between both. hm, they won't because 1615 becomes an initial and therefore an other character also, i wonder if this is ok: ["char"]="shaddaKasra", ["components"]="shadda fatha", ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Dev-luatex] State of OpenType support 2008-05-09 16:34 ` Hans Hagen @ 2008-05-09 17:11 ` Khaled Hosny 2008-05-09 17:16 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Khaled Hosny @ 2008-05-09 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: ntg-context, Idris Samawi Hamid, Taco Hoekwater [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1419 bytes --] On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 06:34:22PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: > Khaled Hosny wrote: >> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 08:02:10PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >>> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>>> (Moved from lautex mailing list, more bellow) >>> >>> >>> char 1614 and 1617 are to be relatively positioned using mkmk, so we >>> need a mark and a basemark match an donly anchor-11 qualifies as >>> basemark but ... >> >> Actually, 1617 (shadda) and 1615 (fatha) will form a shadda-fatha >> ligature, thus there is no proper mkmk anchors between both. > > hm, they won't because 1615 becomes an initial and therefore an other > character I'm not sure if I understand this, do marks have initial and other forms? > > also, i wonder if this is ok: > > ["char"]="shaddaKasra", > ["components"]="shadda fatha", The ligature is OK, just the name is wrong (I named it wrongly while asleep or something). > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com > | www.pragma-pod.nl > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team [-- Attachment #1.2: Digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Dev-luatex] State of OpenType support 2008-05-09 17:11 ` Khaled Hosny @ 2008-05-09 17:16 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-05-09 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Khaled Hosny; +Cc: ntg-context, Idris Samawi Hamid, Taco Hoekwater Khaled Hosny wrote: > On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 06:34:22PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 08:02:10PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >>>> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>>>> (Moved from lautex mailing list, more bellow) >>>> >>>> char 1614 and 1617 are to be relatively positioned using mkmk, so we >>>> need a mark and a basemark match an donly anchor-11 qualifies as >>>> basemark but ... >>> Actually, 1617 (shadda) and 1615 (fatha) will form a shadda-fatha >>> ligature, thus there is no proper mkmk anchors between both. >> hm, they won't because 1615 becomes an initial and therefore an other >> character > > I'm not sure if I understand this, do marks have initial and other > forms? > >> also, i wonder if this is ok: >> >> ["char"]="shaddaKasra", >> ["components"]="shadda fatha", > > The ligature is OK, just the name is wrong (I named it wrongly while > asleep or something). no, but we have \char 1605\char1617\char1614 which becomes: \char57392\char1617\char1614\par so, if you want such a ligature you need to ligature \char57392\char1617 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2008-05-08 15:53 ` [Dev-luatex] State of OpenType support Khaled Hosny
2008-05-08 18:02 ` Hans Hagen
2008-05-09 14:42 ` Khaled Hosny
2008-05-09 16:34 ` Hans Hagen
2008-05-09 17:11 ` Khaled Hosny
2008-05-09 17:16 ` Hans Hagen
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