distro info

distro info

[Andrea Valle]

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Hi to all,

I've briefly presented ConTeXt to the students of my course in Visual  
Identities.
They were all enthusiastic. So they asked me if I can give an  
introductory but "real" seminar.
At my lab the students are all on macosx 10.4/5.
Now the probem:

All my students comes from humanities, no computer science background  
at all. I cannot ask them to be aware of low level installation aspects.
My ideal would be something like the standard ConTeXt I was working  
with an year ago. One installs MacTeX and can start working.
Now, we need easy font switching. I'm actually using XeTeX. But it  
has been complicated to set it up. I don't think I can have my  
students dig into installations ("patch this" etc).
Is there any chance to have luatex into the next MacTeX distro?
Any ideas?

Many thanks
Best


-a-



--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

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Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?

Best

-a-

On 10 Jun 2008, at 16:36, Andrea Valle wrote:

> Hi to all,
>
> I've briefly presented ConTeXt to the students of my course in  
> Visual Identities.
> They were all enthusiastic. So they asked me if I can give an  
> introductory but "real" seminar.
> At my lab the students are all on macosx 10.4/5.
> Now the probem:
>
> All my students comes from humanities, no computer science  
> background at all. I cannot ask them to be aware of low level  
> installation aspects.
> My ideal would be something like the standard ConTeXt I was working  
> with an year ago. One installs MacTeX and can start working.
> Now, we need easy font switching. I'm actually using XeTeX. But it  
> has been complicated to set it up. I don't think I can have my  
> students dig into installations ("patch this" etc).
> Is there any chance to have luatex into the next MacTeX distro?
> Any ideas?
>
> Many thanks
> Best
>
>
> -a-
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Andrea Valle
> --------------------------------------------------
> CIRMA - DAMS
> Università degli Studi di Torino
> --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
> --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
> --> andrea.valle@unito.it
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "
> Think of it as seasoning
> . noise [salt] is boring
> . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
> . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
> "
> (Ken Perlin on noise)
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Andrea Valle <valle@di.unito.it> wrote:
> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?

Yes but some fonts use AAT feayures rather than OpenType features
(take a look at the Arabic thread), so don't worry if you want to use fonts
for foreign languages like Arabic or CJK.

> Best
> -a-

Wolfgang

> On 10 Jun 2008, at 16:36, Andrea Valle wrote:
>
> Hi to all,
> I've briefly presented ConTeXt to the students of my course in Visual
> Identities.
> They were all enthusiastic. So they asked me if I can give an introductory
> but "real" seminar.
> At my lab the students are all on macosx 10.4/5.
> Now the probem:
> All my students comes from humanities, no computer science background at
> all. I cannot ask them to be aware of low level installation aspects.
> My ideal would be something like the standard ConTeXt I was working with an
> year ago. One installs MacTeX and can start working.
> Now, we need easy font switching. I'm actually using XeTeX. But it has been
> complicated to set it up. I don't think I can have my students dig into
> installations ("patch this" etc).
> Is there any chance to have luatex into the next MacTeX distro?
> Any ideas?
> Many thanks
> Best
>
> -a-
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Andrea Valle
> --------------------------------------------------
> CIRMA - DAMS
> Università degli Studi di Torino
> --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
> --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
> --> andrea.valle@unito.it
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> "
> Think of it as seasoning
> . noise [salt] is boring
> . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
> . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
> "
> (Ken Perlin on noise)
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Andrea Valle
> --------------------------------------------------
> CIRMA - DAMS
> Università degli Studi di Torino
> --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
> --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
> --> andrea.valle@unito.it
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> "
> Think of it as seasoning
> . noise [salt] is boring
> . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
> . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
> "
> (Ken Perlin on noise)
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Andrea,

Regarding the installation of TeX and ConTeXt I did it for my daughter  
who is a biologist, on a MacBook: this is quite easy with MacTeX.
Then it is enough to tell your students to do in a Terminal window:
	sudo ctxtools --updatecontext

For LuaTeX it is a little bit more complexe, since the first  
installation is more tricky for the non specialist.

> On 10 juin 08, at 16:43, Andrea Valle wrote:
>>
> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?
> […]


It seems that yes, but I couldn't setup things correctly on my  
machine… (MacBook Pro + MacOS X 10.5.3 + TeXShop + GWTeX).
If you succeed, please let me know how.

Best regards: OK

___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Hans Hagen]

Andrea Valle wrote:
> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?

yes, if you set up OSFONTDIR

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Andrea Valle wrote:
> Hi to all,
> I've briefly presented ConTeXt to the students of my course in Visual
> Identities.
> They were all enthusiastic. So they asked me if I can give an introductory
> but "real" seminar.
> At my lab the students are all on macosx 10.4/5.
> Now the probem:
> All my students comes from humanities, no computer science background at
> all. I cannot ask them to be aware of low level installation aspects.
> My ideal would be something like the standard ConTeXt I was working with an
> year ago. One installs MacTeX and can start working.
> Now, we need easy font switching. I'm actually using XeTeX. But it has been
> complicated to set it up. I don't think I can have my students dig into
> installations ("patch this" etc).
> Is there any chance to have luatex into the next MacTeX distro?
> Any ideas?

Oliver (who's comming to the meeting with the same probability as you
are :) is preparing an installer for Mac, but his last notification
was: "I have put it aside for a while since the tools for packaging
are buggy."

Actually, it should not be that much work to make the minimals behave
the same was as MacTeX, but I don't have enough motivation and skills
to dig into a proper installer.

TeX Live 2008 will include LuaTeX, and so will MacTeX (if they create it).

Have you ever tried to install minimals (http://minimals.contextgarden.net/)?

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[David]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:34:15 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:

> Andrea Valle wrote:
>> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?
> 
> yes, if you set up OSFONTDIR



I would like to set up OSFONTDIR, but I don't know how or where or when 
to do so. I've tried setting it in my bash profile, and that seems to 
have no effect. What is the correct procedure? (I'm on a Mac, if it 
matters.)

Thanks
David
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Hans Hagen]

David wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:34:15 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
>> Andrea Valle wrote:
>>> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?
>> yes, if you set up OSFONTDIR
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to set up OSFONTDIR, but I don't know how or where or when 
> to do so. I've tried setting it in my bash profile, and that seems to 
> have no effect. What is the correct procedure? (I'm on a Mac, if it 
> matters.)

we can consider setting it up automatically but that can only be done 
when it's a stable location

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

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(thanks to all)

> Oliver (who's comming to the meeting with the same probability as you
> are :)

(eh, I'd like to come...)

> TeX Live 2008 will include LuaTeX, and so will MacTeX (if they  
> create it).

That would be great

> Have you ever tried to install minimals (http:// 
> minimals.contextgarden.net/)?

No, frankly I am a bit scared of tweaking my actual distro...
More, I think I have some problems with my unix env.
But I'll try.

But: the linked files are mk II? If I want system fonts shouldn't I  
go for luatex?

Thanks

Best

-a-


>
> Mojca
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

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In my experience the font switching issue (complicated for newbies)  
is the only relevant negative feature in ConTeXt.
So, if I have Luatex I can forget xetex?

Best

-a-


On 10 Jun 2008, at 19:37, Hans Hagen wrote:

> David wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:34:15 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>
>>> Andrea Valle wrote:
>>>> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?
>>> yes, if you set up OSFONTDIR
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to set up OSFONTDIR, but I don't know how or where or  
>> when
>> to do so. I've tried setting it in my bash profile, and that seems to
>> have no effect. What is the correct procedure? (I'm on a Mac, if it
>> matters.)
>
> we can consider setting it up automatically but that can only be done
> when it's a stable location
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>       tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                               | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Andrea Valle wrote:
>
> Have you ever tried to install minimals
> (http://minimals.contextgarden.net/)?
>
> No, frankly I am a bit scared of tweaking my actual distro...

You don't need to tweak it. You just download it and run
. setuptex
whenever you need it. If you don't run the command and don't have the
PATH set, your usual distribution will be used.

> More, I think I have some problems with my unix env.
> But I'll try.
> But: the linked files are mk II?

Which files?

> If I want system fonts shouldn't I go for luatex?

LuaTeX or XeTeX, yes. But they're included in the distribution.

> So, if I have Luatex I can forget xetex?

Depends on how many bugs you can still handle ... :)
If you're careful, you should be able to process the same file with
both XeTeX and LuaTeX.

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Oliver Buerschaper]

> Oliver (who's comming to the meeting with the same probability as you
> are :) is preparing an installer for Mac, but his last notification
> was: "I have put it aside for a while since the tools for packaging
> are buggy."

Well, now that this Mac installer project of mine has been made semi- 
official let's put it this way:

I've already assembled a working ConTeXt package based on the minimals  
that installs via the Apple installer. In other words, it will provide  
the same seamless installation experience to the user as known from  
the MacTeX package and, in fact, as known from any decent Mac software.

However, a few minor issues still need to be sorted out before an  
initial version can be released to the public. For this reason (and in  
order to avoid clumsy workarounds) I'm currently waiting for an update  
of the relevant Apple developer tools which will most probably appear  
next week. That's actually pretty soon.

Oliver


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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

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Hi Oliver,

> I've already assembled a working ConTeXt package based on the minimals
> that installs via the Apple installer. In other words, it will provide
> the same seamless installation experience to the user as known from
> the MacTeX package and, in fact, as known from any decent Mac  
> software.


Fantastic. Exactly what I need. But will you include TeXShop? Will  
the tex file system be local (i.e. separated from the usual locations) ?

> That's actually pretty soon.

Yes, of course.

Thanks

Best

-a-



> Oliver
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Andrea Valle wrote:
> Hi Oliver,
>
> I've already assembled a working ConTeXt package based on the minimals
> that installs via the Apple installer. In other words, it will provide
> the same seamless installation experience to the user as known from
> the MacTeX package and, in fact, as known from any decent Mac software.
>
> Fantastic. Exactly what I need. But will you include TeXShop?

You can use the existing TeXShop or any other editor. Besides that, in
summer or autumn a new cross-platform editor by Jonathan Kew will be
available.

> Will the tex
> file system be local (i.e. separated from the usual locations) ?

You will be able to use PreferencePane to select whether you want to
use MacTeX or ConTeXt minimals (and which version), and that will be
done globally. /usr/texbin will be a symlink to binaries.

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2084 bytes --]

Wow, much needed.
Looking forward to see it.

Best

-a-


On 11 Jun 2008, at 18:05, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Andrea Valle wrote:
>> Hi Oliver,
>>
>> I've already assembled a working ConTeXt package based on the  
>> minimals
>> that installs via the Apple installer. In other words, it will  
>> provide
>> the same seamless installation experience to the user as known from
>> the MacTeX package and, in fact, as known from any decent Mac  
>> software.
>>
>> Fantastic. Exactly what I need. But will you include TeXShop?
>
> You can use the existing TeXShop or any other editor. Besides that, in
> summer or autumn a new cross-platform editor by Jonathan Kew will be
> available.
>
>> Will the tex
>> file system be local (i.e. separated from the usual locations) ?
>
> You will be able to use PreferencePane to select whether you want to
> use MacTeX or ConTeXt minimals (and which version), and that will be
> done globally. /usr/texbin will be a symlink to binaries.
>
> Mojca
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Jesse Alama]

I second Andrea's opinion -- I'm also looking forward to a
straightforward way of updating ConTeXt and kin.  I'm comfortable with

  ctxtools --updatecontext, 

but much less comfortable updating binaries and fonts, based on my
experience screwing up my installation; a nice Mac OS X interface to
deal with all these would be great.  How about allowing installation of
modules from http://modules.contextgarden.net, too?

(I admit that there's probably a good deal of FUD here on my part and
it's not as complicated as I think it is.  My guess, though, is that I'm
not alone.)

Jesse

Andrea Valle <valle@di.unito.it> writes:

> Wow, much needed.
> Looking forward to see it.
>
> Best
>
> -a-
>
> On 11 Jun 2008, at 18:05, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>     On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Andrea Valle wrote:
>    
>         Hi Oliver,
>        
>         I've already assembled a working ConTeXt package based on the minimals
>         that installs via the Apple installer. In other words, it will provide
>         the same seamless installation experience to the user as known from
>         the MacTeX package and, in fact, as known from any decent Mac
>         software.
>        
>         Fantastic. Exactly what I need. But will you include TeXShop?
>
>     You can use the existing TeXShop or any other editor. Besides that, in
>     summer or autumn a new cross-platform editor by Jonathan Kew will be
>     available.
>
>         Will the tex
>         file system be local (i.e. separated from the usual locations) ?
>
>     You will be able to use PreferencePane to select whether you want to
>     use MacTeX or ConTeXt minimals (and which version), and that will be
>     done globally. /usr/texbin will be a symlink to binaries.
>    
>     Mojca
>     ___________________________________________________________________________________
>     If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>     the Wiki!
>    
>     maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/
>     ntg-context
>     webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>     archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>     wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>     ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Andrea Valle
> --------------------------------------------------
> CIRMA - DAMS
> Università degli Studi di Torino
> --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
> --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
> --> andrea.valle@unito.it
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> "
> Think of it as seasoning
> . noise [salt] is boring
> . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
> . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
> "
> (Ken Perlin on noise)
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

-- 
Jesse Alama (alama@stanford.edu)

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[David]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:37:11 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> David wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:34:15 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> 
>>> Andrea Valle wrote:
>>>> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?
>>> yes, if you set up OSFONTDIR
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to set up OSFONTDIR, but I don't know how or where or when 
>> to do so. I've tried setting it in my bash profile, and that seems to 
>> have no effect. What is the correct procedure? (I'm on a Mac, if it 
>> matters.)
> 
> we can consider setting it up automatically but that can only be done 
> when it's a stable location


Well, that would be excellent from my point of view, of course. But my 
question is much more simple: I only want to know, where and when do I 
type "OSFONTDIR=..."?

I've read many times that in order to use it I need to "set it up", but 
I actually don't know what "set it up" means in this situation.

Thanks
David
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Olivier Guéry]

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:22 AM, David <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:37:11 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> David wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:34:15 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andrea Valle wrote:
>>>>> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?
>>>> yes, if you set up OSFONTDIR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to set up OSFONTDIR, but I don't know how or where or when
>>> to do so. I've tried setting it in my bash profile, and that seems to
>>> have no effect. What is the correct procedure? (I'm on a Mac, if it
>>> matters.)
>>
>> we can consider setting it up automatically but that can only be done
>> when it's a stable location
>
>
> Well, that would be excellent from my point of view, of course. But my
> question is much more simple: I only want to know, where and when do I
> type "OSFONTDIR=..."?
>
> I've read many times that in order to use it I need to "set it up", but
> I actually don't know what "set it up" means in this situation.
>

It's a system variable.
Under Linux you can set it up in your /home/YOUR_NICKNAME/.bashrc file, adding :
export OSFONTDIR=THE_PATH_TO_YOUR_FONT_DIR
At the end of the file.
There's certainly the same under Mac.

Olivier.



-- 
[Message tapé sur un clavier Bépo : http://www.clavier-dvorak.org ]
Olivier nemolivier@gmail.com http://nemolivier.blogspot.com
___________________________________________________________________________________
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Olivier Guéry <nemolivier@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:22 AM, David <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:37:11 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> David wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:34:15 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Andrea Valle wrote:
>>>>>> Hmm, with Luatex I can use system fonts like in XeTeX. Am I right?
>>>>> yes, if you set up OSFONTDIR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would like to set up OSFONTDIR, but I don't know how or where or when
>>>> to do so. I've tried setting it in my bash profile, and that seems to
>>>> have no effect. What is the correct procedure? (I'm on a Mac, if it
>>>> matters.)
>>>
>>> we can consider setting it up automatically but that can only be done
>>> when it's a stable location
>>
>>
>> Well, that would be excellent from my point of view, of course. But my
>> question is much more simple: I only want to know, where and when do I
>> type "OSFONTDIR=..."?
>>
>> I've read many times that in order to use it I need to "set it up", but
>> I actually don't know what "set it up" means in this situation.
>>
>
> It's a system variable.
> Under Linux you can set it up in your /home/YOUR_NICKNAME/.bashrc file, adding :
> export OSFONTDIR=THE_PATH_TO_YOUR_FONT_DIR
> At the end of the file.
> There's certainly the same under Mac.

On Mac that would mean putting
   export OSFONTDIR=$HOME/Library/Fonts:/Library/Fonts:/System/Library/Fonts
to ~/.bash_profile, but since yesterday that is not needed any more
unless you keep your fonts at some exotic locations.

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5065 bytes --]

The fact IMHO is that there's a potentially large base of ConTeXt  
users which are willing to learn the syntax but are scared about  
terminals, setting paths etc
(well, me too: knowing substantially nothing of unix I'm never  
comfortable with unix aspects of my system)
So, an installer is really welcome.

Best

-a-



On 11 Jun 2008, at 22:43, Jesse Alama wrote:

> I second Andrea's opinion -- I'm also looking forward to a
> straightforward way of updating ConTeXt and kin.  I'm comfortable with
>
>   ctxtools --updatecontext,
>
> but much less comfortable updating binaries and fonts, based on my
> experience screwing up my installation; a nice Mac OS X interface to
> deal with all these would be great.  How about allowing  
> installation of
> modules from http://modules.contextgarden.net, too?
>
> (I admit that there's probably a good deal of FUD here on my part and
> it's not as complicated as I think it is.  My guess, though, is  
> that I'm
> not alone.)
>
> Jesse
>
> Andrea Valle <valle@di.unito.it> writes:
>
>> Wow, much needed.
>> Looking forward to see it.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> -a-
>>
>> On 11 Jun 2008, at 18:05, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>
>>     On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Andrea Valle wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Oliver,
>>
>>         I've already assembled a working ConTeXt package based on  
>> the minimals
>>         that installs via the Apple installer. In other words, it  
>> will provide
>>         the same seamless installation experience to the user as  
>> known from
>>         the MacTeX package and, in fact, as known from any decent Mac
>>         software.
>>
>>         Fantastic. Exactly what I need. But will you include TeXShop?
>>
>>     You can use the existing TeXShop or any other editor. Besides  
>> that, in
>>     summer or autumn a new cross-platform editor by Jonathan Kew  
>> will be
>>     available.
>>
>>         Will the tex
>>         file system be local (i.e. separated from the usual  
>> locations) ?
>>
>>     You will be able to use PreferencePane to select whether you  
>> want to
>>     use MacTeX or ConTeXt minimals (and which version), and that  
>> will be
>>     done globally. /usr/texbin will be a symlink to binaries.
>>
>>     Mojca
>>      
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
>> ______________
>>     If your question is of interest to others as well, please add  
>> an entry to
>>     the Wiki!
>>
>>     maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/ 
>> listinfo/
>>     ntg-context
>>     webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>>     archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>>     wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>>      
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
>> ______________
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Andrea Valle
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> CIRMA - DAMS
>> Università degli Studi di Torino
>> --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
>> --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
>> --> andrea.valle@unito.it
>> --------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "
>> Think of it as seasoning
>> . noise [salt] is boring
>> . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
>> . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
>> "
>> (Ken Perlin on noise)
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
>> ______________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
>> entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
>> ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
>> ______________
>
> -- 
> Jesse Alama (alama@stanford.edu)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-06-12 um 11:00 schrieb Andrea Valle:

> The fact IMHO is that there's a potentially large base of ConTeXt  
> users which are willing to learn the syntax but are scared about  
> terminals, setting paths etc
> (well, me too: knowing substantially nothing of unix I'm never  
> comfortable with unix aspects of my system)
> So, an installer is really welcome.

If if you got it installed, you next will need a GUI for running  
ConTeXt, and if some problem arises, you are further away from the  
solution than ever.
:-(

Sorry, you can't use TeX in a decent way if you can't use a shell (AKA  
command line AKA Terminal AKA DOS box).

Otherwise we get a system where everything is configured "under the  
hood" by some administrator - and you are in really bad luck if you  
happen to be your own newborn administrator and read everywhere "if  
you don't know what to fill in here, go ask your administrator".

Please everyone try to become computer literate!
(see also works by Friedrich Kittler)


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3115 bytes --]

>
> If if you got it installed, you next will need a GUI for running
> ConTeXt, and if some problem arises, you are further away from the
> solution than ever.
> :-(
>
> Sorry, you can't use TeX in a decent way if you can't use a shell (AKA
> command line AKA Terminal AKA DOS box).

That's not true.
Installing mactex doesn't require you to use terminal.
It comes with TeXShop. Works out of the box. That was my first  
ConTeXt experience. Positive.
Then I went into some memory problems with MetaPost, then I had to  
modify some sources (thanks to Mojca) to work with XeTeX.
Really a boring experience. Please don't tell me that the tree  
structure of the TeX distro is easy to understand and traverse.

>
> Please everyone try to become computer literate!
> (see also works by Friedrich Kittler)

I agree with you. But it depends on what "computer literate" means.
For me computer science is the science of algorithms (see the  
definition of Schneider and Gersting).
So, I'm interested in a higher level perspective. Otherwise, I could  
start from assembler.
Note also that I'm always teaching computer programming to students  
in humanities. I'm asking them big steps into computer literacy.
But I cannot exaggerate.
I'm teaching them SuperCollider and Nodebox. I'd like to teach  
ConTeXt focusing in computational typography, not into unix file  
system (even if it can be very relevant).
Note also that from the previous posts I still have not exactly  
understood what I have to do to install Luatex (the famous minimals),  
and it seems that many people are confused like me on using system  
fonts.
I'm scared of tweaking my actual XeConTeXt distro because to install  
it has been a pain.

Of course, everyone on the mailing list here is very friendly and  
helpful, but I'd like not to bore you all with install troubles.

Best

-a-







> --------------------------------------------------

Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


I did this interview where I just mentioned that I read Foucault. Who  
doesn't in university, right? I was in this strip club giving this  
guy a lap dance and all he wanted to do was to discuss Foucault with  
me. Well, I can stand naked and do my little dance, or I can discuss  
Foucault, but not at the same time; too much information.
(Annabel Chong)




--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Jun 13, 2008, at 6:40 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

> Am 2008-06-12 um 11:00 schrieb Andrea Valle:
>
>> The fact IMHO is that there's a potentially large base of ConTeXt
>> users which are willing to learn the syntax but are scared about
>> terminals, setting paths etc
>> (well, me too: knowing substantially nothing of unix I'm never
>> comfortable with unix aspects of my system)
>> So, an installer is really welcome.
>
> If if you got it installed, you next will need a GUI for running
> ConTeXt, and if some problem arises, you are further away from the
> solution than ever.
> :-(
>
> Sorry, you can't use TeX in a decent way if you can't use a shell (AKA
> command line AKA Terminal AKA DOS box).
>
> Otherwise we get a system where everything is configured "under the
> hood" by some administrator - and you are in really bad luck if you
> happen to be your own newborn administrator and read everywhere "if
> you don't know what to fill in here, go ask your administrator".
>
> Please everyone try to become computer literate!
> (see also works by Friedrich Kittler)
>
You took the words out of my mouth; I was going to write in a similar  
vein. Creating a GUI installer will only give false hopes to the  
"potentially large base of users." They may be able to install, but  
will soon run into trouble which can't be solved without a little  
knowledge of the command line, about paths and configuration files. If  
you're a billionaire, you could pay a couple dozen programmers to  
write a GUI for all these settings. But as long as no Mark  
Shuttleworth pops up, I think it would be better to avoid any  
misunderstandings. If you're allergic to the command line, TeX is not  
for you.

Just my 2 cents...

Thomas
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Andrea Valle wrote:
>
> Note also that from the previous posts I still have not exactly understood
> what I have to do to install Luatex (the famous minimals),

cd /path/to/some/folder
rsync -ptv rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/setup/first-setup.sh .
./first-setup.sh

And then you need to put (note the dot!)

.  /path/to/some/folder/tex/setuptex  /path/to/some/folder/tex

to .bash_profile and start a new shell. That's all. This will shield
your MacTeX installation, so if you want to use your MacTeX again, you
need to commen out that line and start a new shell. I had some
problems with editors in past, but Oliver did a great job with pushing
Hans and Taco to modify some stuff. You would still need something to
adjust your editor to work properly.

Alternatively, you may use

cd /path/to/some/folder
. setuptex

every time when you want to use the minimals in a new shell.

> and it seems that
> many people are confused like me on using system fonts.

System fonts on Mac should work by default since a few days ago.

Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-06-13 um 19:08 schrieb Andrea Valle:
>> Sorry, you can't use TeX in a decent way if you can't use a shell  
>> (AKA
>> command line AKA Terminal AKA DOS box).
> That's not true.
> Installing mactex doesn't require you to use terminal.
> It comes with TeXShop. Works out of the box. That was my first =20
> ConTeXt experience. Positive.
> Then I went into some memory problems with MetaPost, then I had to =20
> modify some sources (thanks to Mojca) to work with XeTeX.
> Really a boring experience. Please don't tell me that the tree =20
> structure of the TeX distro is easy to understand and traverse.

You're right, the TeX tree is more of a shrubbery. And I don't say  
Ni ;-)

For directory trees I really like the Finder in columns mode - and  
it's great that you can just drag a file or folder to the Terminal to  
get its path inserted.

I stopped using TeXshop and iTeXMac (not a positive experience some  
years ago), because I often need to call ConTeXt (i.e. texexec) with  
different arguments, and that's overly complicated with GUI tools. And  
I found the (La)TeX integration more annoying than helpful for  
ConTeXt. iTeXMac's project "files" (app-like directories) are annoying  
as well.
I do most of my development in Eclipse or TextWrangler, but always  
with a Terminal or three.
I use a simple shell script for every project, that runs the main file  
with appropriate arguments, opens the resulting PDF (with LilyPond  
also the MIDI) and cleans the temp files afterwards.

Even with GUI layout projects I normally have a Terminal open - e.g.  
for quick (batch) renaming (renaming is one of the few really annoying  
mis-features of MacOS X - "YES I REALLY WANT TO CHANGE THE EXTENSION  
AND I KNOW WHAT I DO, DAMNED!").

You see, I'm not a shell dogmatist - I normally use vi only on remote  
servers, and I don't run EmacsOS - but I work much more efficiently if  
I can use a decent shell. (sh on AIX or CMD.EXE on Win2k is not a  
decent shell...)

>> Please everyone try to become computer literate!
>> (see also works by Friedrich Kittler)
> I agree with you. But it depends on what "computer literate" means.
...
> I'm teaching them SuperCollider and Nodebox.

Ok, I don't get those ;-)

> I'd like to teach =20
> ConTeXt focusing in computational typography, not into unix file =20
> system (even if it can be very relevant).
> Note also that from the previous posts I still have not exactly =20
> understood what I have to do to install Luatex (the famous  
> minimals), =20=
> and it seems that many people are confused like me on using system =20
> fonts.
> I'm scared of tweaking my actual XeConTeXt distro because to install  
> =20
> it has been a pain.

I know the pain.
It was always a hassle to get ConTeXt working with teTeX, even with  
gwTeX or MacTeX. (I never got it working with CMacTeX, but that was a  
previous chapter.)
The minimals solved it for me. As soon as I had understood how to use  
first-setup and setuptex.

Now I start setuptex in my .profile, so that every new Terminal is pre- 
configured. (You can also use .bashrc or .bash_profile)
And I run first-setup for updates regularly as a cron job, together  
with some other update scripts.

I still feel a bit uncomfortable with "systems fonts", too:
I activate fonts with FontExplorer as I need them, so ConTeXt normally  
can't find my fonts. We should try to write a XeTeX/LuaTeX-plugin for  
FontExplorer...
Before I had installed a lot of fonts in my personal texmf tree (where  
they don't eat my RAM), many of them I've only as PFB and can't use  
them as system fonts on OSX.
Besides that, a lot of "system fonts" aren't available for ConTeXt  
(fontconfig problems, I guess).

If I would use ConTeXt more often, I would have figured that out, I  
guess...

> --Apple-Mail-101-993969544
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset=ISO-8859-1

Oops, since when decided my Apple Mail to send MIME/HTML mails?? It  
mustn't do that...
Bad program, BAAAD program!


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Matthias Weber]

On Jun 13, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>
>
> Even with GUI layout projects I normally have a Terminal open - e.g.
> for quick (batch) renaming (renaming is one of the few really annoying
> mis-features of MacOS X - "YES I REALLY WANT TO CHANGE THE EXTENSION
> AND I KNOW WHAT I DO, DAMNED!").
>


Change your finder preferences for this one. That's about as hard as  
setting a path variable.

Matthias
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-06-13 um 20:26 schrieb Matthias Weber:
>> Even with GUI layout projects I normally have a Terminal open - e.g.
>> for quick (batch) renaming (renaming is one of the few really  
>> annoying
>> mis-features of MacOS X - "YES I REALLY WANT TO CHANGE THE EXTENSION
>> AND I KNOW WHAT I DO, DAMNED!").

> Change your finder preferences for this one. That's about as hard as
> setting a path variable.


I changed it already on my new home mac (running Leopard); but there's  
no preference on previous versions (i.e. at work and on my ibook).

Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Oliver Buerschaper]

>> If if you got it installed, you next will need a GUI for running
>> ConTeXt, and if some problem arises, you are further away from the
>> solution than ever.
>> :-(
>>
>> Sorry, you can't use TeX in a decent way if you can't use a shell  
>> (AKA
>> command line AKA Terminal AKA DOS box).
>>
>> Otherwise we get a system where everything is configured "under the
>> hood" by some administrator - and you are in really bad luck if you
>> happen to be your own newborn administrator and read everywhere "if
>> you don't know what to fill in here, go ask your administrator".
>>
>> Please everyone try to become computer literate!
>> (see also works by Friedrich Kittler)
>>
> You took the words out of my mouth; I was going to write in a similar
> vein. Creating a GUI installer will only give false hopes to the
> "potentially large base of users." They may be able to install, but
> will soon run into trouble which can't be solved without a little
> knowledge of the command line, about paths and configuration files. If
> you're a billionaire, you could pay a couple dozen programmers to
> write a GUI for all these settings. But as long as no Mark
> Shuttleworth pops up, I think it would be better to avoid any
> misunderstandings. If you're allergic to the command line, TeX is not
> for you.

Actually, I strongly disagree with the opinion that the only way to  
properly interact with TeX is via the command line.

Counter example: in Mac application development your IDE of choice  
will almost certainly be Xcode. Although it delegates the entire  
compilation process to gcc you *never* ever see the command line. And  
there's no need to. All errors and warnings output by gcc are  
intercepted and passed on to you via the graphical IDE and you won't  
lose a tiny bit of information. In fact you gain a lot when trying to  
track down a problem ...

Furthermore, in my humble opinion interaction with TeX should  
concentrate on programming the actual typesetting language and not on  
fumbling around with dozens of configuration files ... for instance,  
if you develop applications you wouldn't want to reconfigure your  
compiler twice a week either but rather focus on the source code *you*  
write.

Oliver
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Jun 14, 2008, at 1:07 PM, Oliver Buerschaper wrote:

> Actually, I strongly disagree with the opinion that the only way to
> properly interact with TeX is via the command line.
>
> Counter example: in Mac application development your IDE of choice
> will almost certainly be Xcode. Although it delegates the entire
> compilation process to gcc you *never* ever see the command line. And
> there's no need to. All errors and warnings output by gcc are
> intercepted and passed on to you via the graphical IDE and you won't
> lose a tiny bit of information. In fact you gain a lot when trying to
> track down a problem ...
>
> Furthermore, in my humble opinion interaction with TeX should
> concentrate on programming the actual typesetting language and not on
> fumbling around with dozens of configuration files ... for instance,
> if you develop applications you wouldn't want to reconfigure your
> compiler twice a week either but rather focus on the source code *you*
> write.
>
> Oliver

Who said that "the only way to properly interact with TeX is via the  
command line"? What I said is: you can provide all the GUI tools you  
want, at some point (and this will be rather sooner than later)  
problems will crop up, and these problems will be impossible to  
resolve if you don't want to use the command line, don't want to learn  
about PATH settings, don't want to learn about where configuration  
files go and what they do. This may be different in, say 10 years, but  
it would be misleading to pretend that it is different today. TeXLive  
2008 is just being tested, and in this regard, it's no better than its  
predecessors. Unless and until we have systems which will be easier to  
maintain, users who expect to be able to stay away from the CLI are  
bound to be disappointed.

Your example about Apple's Xcode actually proves my point: I said that  
if you can afford to throw a couple of million $ and a dozen  
programmers at this, it is actually feasible (but will still take  
time). Apple has done just that; the Xcode IDE hasn't been built by  
volunteers in their spare time, now has it? So far, nobody has done  
anything similar for TeX, and I had the impression that the volunteer  
programmers who are actively contributing to it seem more interested  
in adding new features and improving the code than in adding a  
colorful pointy-clicky interface. But of course my impression could be  
wrong and someone is already building such a GUI as we speak...

As for "fumbling around with dozens of configuration files": such  
exaggerations are not very helpful in this discussion.

Thomas
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1348 bytes --]

>
> Actually, I strongly disagree with the opinion that the only way to
> properly interact with TeX is via the command line.
>
> In fact you gain a lot when trying to
> track down a problem ...
>

> Furthermore, in my humble opinion interaction with TeX should
> concentrate on programming the actual typesettin

You took the words out of my mouth
:-)

Jokes apart, I think it's evident that there are two approaches to  
deal with a distro/application.
I'm just defending my position, without implying that the other one  
is inferior/negative/etc.

I just want to point out that to have a context distro wrapped into a  
mac app (i.e. autonomous, self-contained)
will make the life easier for many users.  (So, thanks Oliver)
This does not prevent them to have an experimental, on-the-edge version.

Best

-a-



--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[John Culleton]

On Saturday 14 June 2008 07:07:53 am Oliver Buerschaper wrote:

> Actually, I strongly disagree with the opinion that the only way to
> properly interact with TeX is via the command line.
>

The amount of interaction with TeX in any form is minimal. If it runs 
to completion fine, if it stalls one can key "x" to abort or "q" to 
continue with out further error messages 

What I do is edit the TeX source file in Gvim. I assign F2 to 
readjusting all the text in Gvim, F3 to running 
pdftex book.tex. 
F4 to running 
texexec book.tex
 and F5 to running in background 
kpdf book.pdf

I operate from a terminal window on the GUI (KDE in my case.)

-- 
John Culleton
Resources for every author and publisher:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf
http://www.creativemindspress.com/newbiefaq.htm
http://www.gropenassoc.com/TopLevelPages/reference%20desk.htm
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2793 bytes --]

> What I said is: you can provide all the GUI tools you
> want, at some point (and this will be rather sooner than later)
> problems will crop up, and these problems will be impossible to
> resolve if you don't want to use the command line, don't want to learn
> about PATH settings, don't want to learn about where configuration
> files go and what they do.

Thomas, I do not know what Oliver is actually doing.
But just 2c:
- suppose you have a ConTeXt distro (the minimal) inside a mac app.  
At the end a mac app is typically a folder containing different  
programs/libraries etc
- suppose you are provided inside the app of an editor (say,   
TeXShop)  already configured to read in the app's folder.

In sum, you have a TeXShop ready to go for the ConTeXt in the app.

Then, you have a context distro working out of the box.
It can be installed easily. You have always worked with Word and you  
want to try to work with ConTeXt? Download, drag and drop, open.
There shouldn't been configuration problems (they have been solved  
while creating the installer).
If there are bugs depending on ConTeXt,  as usual in case of an app,  
the user has to wait for a next release of the app including the new  
ConTeXt version.
(with a bit more expertise, maybe you can simply replace the right  
folder inside the mac app)
This is indeed a limit, but the previous points can be pros for  
another user.

> colorful pointy-clicky interface.

Not so much colorful, not so much pointy-clicky.
Just local, self-contained, with an editor.

No?

Best
-a-


--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


I did this interview where I just mentioned that I read Foucault. Who  
doesn't in university, right? I was in this strip club giving this  
guy a lap dance and all he wanted to do was to discuss Foucault with  
me. Well, I can stand naked and do my little dance, or I can discuss  
Foucault, but not at the same time; too much information.
(Annabel Chong)




--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Oliver Buerschaper]

> Who said that "the only way to properly interact with TeX is via the
> command line"? What I said is: you can provide all the GUI tools you
> want, at some point (and this will be rather sooner than later)
> problems will crop up, and these problems will be impossible to
> resolve if you don't want to use the command line, don't want to learn
> about PATH settings, don't want to learn about where configuration
> files go and what they do. This may be different in, say 10 years, but
> it would be misleading to pretend that it is different today. TeXLive
> 2008 is just being tested, and in this regard, it's no better than its
> predecessors. Unless and until we have systems which will be easier to
> maintain, users who expect to be able to stay away from the CLI are
> bound to be disappointed.

Not necessarily I guess. See below.

> Your example about Apple's Xcode actually proves my point: I said that
> if you can afford to throw a couple of million $ and a dozen
> programmers at this, it is actually feasible (but will still take
> time). Apple has done just that; the Xcode IDE hasn't been built by
> volunteers in their spare time, now has it?

That's right. My point though is that once the installation has been  
done via a GUI (a rather simple one suffices, by the way) there's no  
need for knowing about paths and configuration files. (That is, if the  
installation package doesn't happen to be buggy in the first place …)  
And this also applies to updates unless you want to perform them  
manually. However, I don't think many people would think of updating  
any large software environment (Xcode, KDE, Gnome, … whatever) without  
the help of a GUI package manager. I also doubt the end user will ever  
have to tweak any configuration files of TeXLive. Neither would they  
be willing to. I wonder why this has to be different for ConTeXt …

> As for "fumbling around with dozens of configuration files": such
> exaggerations are not very helpful in this discussion.

Well, until roughly two weeks ago, this wouldn't have been too  
exaggerated though ... now thanks to Hans' and Taco's efforts this has  
improved vastly! There's probably still some way to go.

Oliver
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Re: distro info

[Jesse Alama]

"Thomas A. Schmitz" <thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de> writes:

> On Jun 14, 2008, at 1:07 PM, Oliver Buerschaper wrote:
>
>> Actually, I strongly disagree with the opinion that the only way to
>> properly interact with TeX is via the command line.
>>
>> Counter example: in Mac application development your IDE of choice
>> will almost certainly be Xcode. Although it delegates the entire
>> compilation process to gcc you *never* ever see the command line. And
>> there's no need to. All errors and warnings output by gcc are
>> intercepted and passed on to you via the graphical IDE and you won't
>> lose a tiny bit of information. In fact you gain a lot when trying to
>> track down a problem ...
>>
>> Furthermore, in my humble opinion interaction with TeX should
>> concentrate on programming the actual typesetting language and not on
>> fumbling around with dozens of configuration files ... for instance,
>> if you develop applications you wouldn't want to reconfigure your
>> compiler twice a week either but rather focus on the source code *you*
>> write.
>>
>> Oliver
>
> Who said that "the only way to properly interact with TeX is via the  
> command line"? What I said is: you can provide all the GUI tools you  
> want, at some point (and this will be rather sooner than later)  
> problems will crop up, and these problems will be impossible to  
> resolve if you don't want to use the command line, don't want to learn  
> about PATH settings, don't want to learn about where configuration  
> files go and what they do. This may be different in, say 10 years, but  
> it would be misleading to pretend that it is different today. TeXLive  
> 2008 is just being tested, and in this regard, it's no better than its  
> predecessors. Unless and until we have systems which will be easier to  
> maintain, users who expect to be able to stay away from the CLI are  
> bound to be disappointed.
>
> Your example about Apple's Xcode actually proves my point: I said that  
> if you can afford to throw a couple of million $ and a dozen  
> programmers at this, it is actually feasible (but will still take  
> time). Apple has done just that; the Xcode IDE hasn't been built by  
> volunteers in their spare time, now has it? So far, nobody has done  
> anything similar for TeX, and I had the impression that the volunteer  
> programmers who are actively contributing to it seem more interested  
> in adding new features and improving the code than in adding a  
> colorful pointy-clicky interface. But of course my impression could be  
> wrong and someone is already building such a GUI as we speak...
>
> As for "fumbling around with dozens of configuration files": such  
> exaggerations are not very helpful in this discussion.

Let me add that I have no aversion at all to using command line tools.
The basis for my own comments in this thread do not lie in a preference
for graphical tools, but rather for a straightforward way to stay
up-to-date with the whole of ConTeXt in a way that ctxtools does not
currently provide.  A command-line interface for that would be great,
and so would a graphical tool.

I'm of course familiar with the minimals, but what's unpleasant about
that approach to staying current with ConTeXt is that one has to put
aside other installations.  What I mean, more specifically, is that
TeXlive is ignored.  As far as I can see, I can't both use latex and the
minimal ConTeXt in the same shell, because if I want to use the latter I
can't use the former.  For me an optimal solution would be a tool like,
say, ctxtools --updatecontext, that combines downloading the latest
binaries, fonts, and TeX code into one package, and overwrites the old
contents in my TeXlive tree.  A command-line tool to do that would
certainly be appreciated.

The discussion of environment variables leads me to wonder: is there a
definitive discussion of these?  I'm familiar with the TeXlive
documentation, but what more should users know to gain a mastery of
these variables in connection with ConTeXt?

Jesse

-- 
Jesse Alama (alama@stanford.edu)
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Jun 14, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Andrea Valle wrote:

> Thomas, I do not know what Oliver is actually doing.
> But just 2c:
> - suppose you have a ConTeXt distro (the minimal) inside a mac app.  
> At the end a mac app is typically a folder containing different  
> programs/libraries etc
> - suppose you are provided inside the app of an editor (say,   
> TeXShop)  already configured to read in the app's folder.
>
> In sum, you have a TeXShop ready to go for the ConTeXt in the app.
>
> Then, you have a context distro working out of the box.
> It can be installed easily. You have always worked with Word and you  
> want to try to work with ConTeXt? Download, drag and drop, open.
> There shouldn't been configuration problems (they have been solved  
> while creating the installer).
> If there are bugs depending on ConTeXt,  as usual in case of an app,  
> the user has to wait for a next release of the app including the new  
> ConTeXt version.
> (with a bit more expertise, maybe you can simply replace the right  
> folder inside the mac app)
> This is indeed a limit, but the previous points can be pros for  
> another user.
>

Andrea, I can see what you want, and from your POV, this is a  
reasonable demand. But allow me to explain why I see quite a few  
obstacles:

1. ConTeXt is cross-platform, so you'd need someone to take care and  
prepare this for widnoze and linux as well.

2. More importantly: yes, a self-contained app would work. But what if  
your user wants to use a different font? What if (s)he wants to use a  
third-party module or package such as tikz? bibtex?

What it boils down to, of course, is how you want to use your  
computer. You're right: a mac application is nothing but a couple of  
directories with files and binaries etc. So in theory, you could have  
a minimal ConTeXt in such a bundle. But it would be a nightmare to  
maintain, to add stuff, to make it cohabitate with other packages. One  
bundle that does just what you like is lilypond. A wonderful  
typesetting application, all in one installer, not complex to install.  
It has been broken on intel mac for half a year now. Nobody has the  
knowledge or the time or the energy to fix it. Result? No lilypond for  
intel mac users. You know, I cannot stress too much how intensely I  
prefer my TeX installation. When something goes wrong, I can look  
under the hood, find documentation, configuration files, I can upgrade  
etc. I prefer to be able to change the lightbulbs in my house myself,  
and not wait for somebody to release house 1.1 with all new and  
improved lightbulbs. So I hope you see why I don't think a GUI  
installer is such a good idea.

Thomas
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Re: distro info

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Jesse Alama wrote:
> "Thomas A. Schmitz" writes:
>
> The basis for my own comments in this thread do not lie in a preference
> for graphical tools, but rather for a straightforward way to stay
> up-to-date with the whole of ConTeXt in a way that ctxtools does not
> currently provide.  A command-line interface for that would be great,
> and so would a graphical tool.

That's not a general solution, but if you need it for yourself, you
can put the following to some file and execute it whenever you want:

rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/context/beta/
/path/to/your/texmf/
rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/luatex/linux/bin/
/path/to/your/binaries/
etc.

There's a limited set of folders that you need to update, and it will
only update new files, you don't need to update everything.

Mojca
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Re: distro info

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-06-14 um 19:36 schrieb Thomas A. Schmitz:
> bundle that does just what you like is lilypond. A wonderful
> typesetting application, all in one installer, not complex to install.
> It has been broken on intel mac for half a year now. Nobody has the
> knowledge or the time or the energy to fix it. Result? No lilypond for
> intel mac users.

By the way LilyPond works again, since a month or so. But just  
lilypond, not midi2ly etc.
And you can use the PPC version on Intel, too.
You could even try to install it from source without the Mac.app stuff  
(perhaps even via fink) - don't know if you'll run into difficult  
library problems, though, didn't try.

That doesn't invalidate your point, though.

If you install ConTeXt as a nice Mac.app, you'd need an integrated  
package/plugin manager and someone who provides updates and additions  
as suitable packages. Similar to Eclipse, perhaps, and even if that  
works mostly, there stay problems where you need to poke around in the  
file tree.

Of course, since ConTeXt is much more monolithic (or "batteries  
included") than LaTeX (or Eclipse), you don't need a lot of packages,  
you could even include all known third-party modules and automate  
daily updates. And you could limit the font support to included LM  
plus system fonts.
So it could be done. For OSX, that is. Maybe even multiplatform, if  
you use something like Python with wxPython and setuptools.

But I think it's not worth the effort - who could do it, doesn't need  
it. As was said, you'd have to pay some developers for that - for a  
really small audience.


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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Re: distro info

[Diego Depaoli]

2008/6/14 Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com>:

> That's not a general solution, but if you need it for yourself, you
> can put the following to some file and execute it whenever you want:
>
> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/context/beta/
> /path/to/your/texmf/
> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/luatex/linux/bin/
> /path/to/your/binaries/
> etc.
>
> There's a limited set of folders that you need to update, and it will
> only update new files, you don't need to update everything.
In a world without firewall rules that would a good compromise :-)

About the topic...
even I don't like prepackaged softwares, we cannot forget that most
users want download, doubleclick, install and run without other
noises, so I agree with Andrea's thoughts, but ConTeXt has a
complicated structure/hierarchy (updated often) which doesn't make
easier the job.
Furthermore let me doubt that a simplified installation it's enough to
persuade new users since ConTeXt requires manuals reading which is
universally considered a waste of time.
Regards

-- 
Diego Depaoli
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Re: distro info

[Charles P. Schaum]

What could perhaps occur is this:

Get PC-BSD's PBI technology working with something like DarwinPorts or
whatever BSD ports tree exists for the Mac. IIRC, they now have a
relatively automated way of getting from ports to PBI's.

But you would need cooperation, legal protection or licensing for the
PBI tech, some currency at hand to pay a developer, and a committed,
tech-savvy crew. And this might not fly because PBI is the special deal
for PC-BSD. Would they "share" for Mac?

But a ConTeXt PBI would make me look at the BSD's a little more. I don't
really want TeTeX and staying current with CTAN pretty much precludes
depending on a "distro" anyway.

Charles

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Re: distro info

[Charles P. Schaum]

On Sun, 2008-06-15 at 01:05 +0200, Diego Depaoli wrote:
> Furthermore let me doubt that a simplified installation it's enough to
> persuade new users since ConTeXt requires manuals reading which is
> universally considered a waste of time.

In many cases, the nouveau Linux culture or Win/Mac users may not
necessarily like to RTFMP, (P for Please) but anyone with any long-term
Unix exposure does, because that's how it goes. ConTeXt makes its
manuals far easier to get to than others in many cases.

Linux man pages are lame. Mac man pages are decent because they come
from BSD, but lots of Mac users hardly ever use Terminal. Windows users
wouldn't know a man page if you hit them with one. But even commercial
DTP on Mac and Win has some kind of HTML-based set of manuals/tutorials
that they really encourage people to use.

Once people are beyond your average office suite, they just have to read
manuals or know design. That's why there's tons of stuff out there on
the net. Same goes for web design. So I think that, by the time you get
to ConTeXt, you might have to accept the old RTFMP as a sine qua non.

I find the ConTeXt manuals to be exceptional, and I hope to sit down
soon at least with the main ConTeXt EN manual and mark it up where I
find editorial issues. I started using ConTeXt only recently and already
I was able to do a book mock-up with endpapers, title page, indicia
page, TOC, various front matter, chapters, appropriate page headings,
and so on. Were I trying to use LaTeX or plain (I was seriously
considering Lollipop) I would still be wanking around with it.

So I've found the manuals invaluable. True, maybe something that is both
really slow for beginners and faster for the experienced as an
HTML-based set, either on-line or downloadable, wouldn't be bad to have.
I actually have some of my own ideas for the topology of something like
that. One thing that trips me up is not knowing when some bit of plain
TeX should or should not be used.

In any case, everyone using something TeX-related can benefit from the
TeXbook. I enjoy it thoroughly.

Charles

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Re: distro info

[Matthias Weber]

For a while I thought it doesn't make sense for me to add to this  
thread, but there appears to be
a complete ignorance among many power ConTeXt users about "abnormal"  
ways to
use ConTeXt, and maybe even computers.

I believe that there are keyboard people and mouse people. I myself  
am mostly a mouse person.

Nevertheless, TeX has its appeal to me, besides its math typesetting  
competence.  I love to formulate
what I write while I am typing, and because I type slowly, this works  
quite well. I found that wysiwyg systems
distract me from finding good formulations, because I pay too much  
attention to the layout while typing.

After producing the content, it is quite easy to change the layout,  
and I like to do that, too -- but it is
a totally different activity.

I found ConTeXt to be more satisfying than LaTeX here, for several  
reasons. One of them is that if I want to achieve
something new in LaTeX, I typically have to choose (carefullly)  
between several different packages,
with the danger of breaking something else or to run into limitations.
With ConTeXt, the "Garden" is a great resource, and if everything  
else fails, one can ask on this friendly list...

No my confession: I hate digging around in the TeX tree, or compile  
new versions, etc.
While I have done all this, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, I  
just don't need to do it often enough that
I have become familiar enough with the pitfalls so that I can  
overcome potential problems. My memory
is so bad that something I don't do at least weekly will just  
disappear, and I don't have enough time
to exercise the unix installation yoga weekly.
Hence I have been living with the TeXLive ConTeXt distribution(on a  
Mac)  for a while, always afraid that the answer
to a problem will be "just upgrade to the newest nightly built". I am  
sure I am not the only one.

But I do not complain. ConTeXt is great, but has a long way to go  
until Hans and company can afford dealing
with a larger user base -- when the volume of this mailing list  
doubles, it will become completely useless
to new users.


Matthias
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Re: distro info

[Andrea Valle]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1227 bytes --]


> Furthermore let me doubt that a simplified installation it's enough to
> persuade new users since ConTeXt requires manuals reading which is
> universally considered a waste of time.

Hmm, Diego, that's not the point IMHO.
We have to decouple installation from use. I'm an example of a user  
who will appreciate a simplified installer and will keep reading  
manuals (Matthias seems to agree with me).

It's  an interesting thread, but at the end I'm convinced that,  
simply, we are in a do-cracy. If Oliver has time, he will release an  
installer for mac. Otherwise, Andrea Valle will simply keep complaining.
Obviously, Hans has more important things to do (I'm pretty serious  
here).

Best

-a-

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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searchable pdf in mkii, usepdffontresource stub

[Oleg Kolosov]

Hello!

I'm trying to generate searchable pdf with cyrrillic glyphs with the 
following:

\enableregime[utf]
\mainlanguage[ru]
\setupencoding[default=t2a]
\useencoding[pfr]
\usepdffontresource t2a
\usetypescript[pscyr][\defaultencoding] % type-pscyr is my own 
typescript file
\setupbodyfont[pscyr,14pt]

also tried with:

\startencoding[t2a]
\usepdffontresource t2a
\stopencoding

It seems that \usepdffontresource does nothing. I see pdfr-def loaded in 
log, but not pdfr-t2a. \input pdfr-t2a (or pdfr-ec) says that 
\startpdffontresource is undefined command. I've created pdfr-t2a.tex by 
replacing definitions in pdfr-ec with ones from cmap latex package 
(found in file t2a.cmap). I'm using ConTeXt mkII since mkIV is in active 
development. Tried also with ec as default encoding with the same result 
(pdfr-ec.tex is not loaded).

Please help me create header for minimal file which will generate 
searchable PDF.

-- 
Best Regards,
Oleg Kolosov

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Re: searchable pdf in mkii, usepdffontresource stub

[Hans Hagen]

Oleg Kolosov wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I'm trying to generate searchable pdf with cyrrillic glyphs with the 
> following:
> 
> \enableregime[utf]
> \mainlanguage[ru]
> \setupencoding[default=t2a]
> \useencoding[pfr]
> \usepdffontresource t2a
> \usetypescript[pscyr][\defaultencoding] % type-pscyr is my own 
> typescript file
> \setupbodyfont[pscyr,14pt]
> 
> also tried with:
> 
> \startencoding[t2a]
> \usepdffontresource t2a
> \stopencoding
> 
> It seems that \usepdffontresource does nothing. I see pdfr-def loaded in 
> log, but not pdfr-t2a. \input pdfr-t2a (or pdfr-ec) says that 
> \startpdffontresource is undefined command. I've created pdfr-t2a.tex by 
> replacing definitions in pdfr-ec with ones from cmap latex package 
> (found in file t2a.cmap). I'm using ConTeXt mkII since mkIV is in active 
> development. Tried also with ec as default encoding with the same result 
> (pdfr-ec.tex is not loaded).
> 
> Please help me create header for minimal file which will generate 
> searchable PDF.

pdftex does it itself (i.e. create the vectors) using pdfr-def.tex 
(unless i did something wrong)

Hans

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Re: searchable pdf in mkii, usepdffontresource stub

[Oleg Kolosov]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1988 bytes --]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Oleg Kolosov wrote:
>   
>> Hello!
>>
>> I'm trying to generate searchable pdf with cyrrillic glyphs with the 
>> following:
>>
>> \enableregime[utf]
>> \mainlanguage[ru]
>> \setupencoding[default=t2a]
>> \useencoding[pfr]
>> \usepdffontresource t2a
>> \usetypescript[pscyr][\defaultencoding] % type-pscyr is my own 
>> typescript file
>> \setupbodyfont[pscyr,14pt]
>>
>> also tried with:
>>
>> \startencoding[t2a]
>> \usepdffontresource t2a
>> \stopencoding
>>
>> It seems that \usepdffontresource does nothing. I see pdfr-def loaded in 
>> log, but not pdfr-t2a. \input pdfr-t2a (or pdfr-ec) says that 
>> \startpdffontresource is undefined command. I've created pdfr-t2a.tex by 
>> replacing definitions in pdfr-ec with ones from cmap latex package 
>> (found in file t2a.cmap). I'm using ConTeXt mkII since mkIV is in active 
>> development. Tried also with ec as default encoding with the same result 
>> (pdfr-ec.tex is not loaded).
>>
>> Please help me create header for minimal file which will generate 
>> searchable PDF.
>>     
>
> pdftex does it itself (i.e. create the vectors) using pdfr-def.tex 
> (unless i did something wrong)
>
> Hans
>
>   
It's unlikely. I've tested it with minimal file and english text is 
indeed searchable, but cyrillic is not, with copy-paste I get some 
strange symbols. I'm using type1 fonts from PSCyr package with my own 
typescript, does this matter? I've attached  typescript file just in 
case (it's still incomplete but works fine for me). Maybe I miss some 
definition or option? BTW cyrillic in PDF TOC works fine (with inclusion 
of spec-tst.tex).

Minimal file which I've used for testing:

\enableregime[utf]
\mainlanguage[ru]

\usetypescript[pscyr][t2a]
\setupbodyfont[pscyr]

\starttext
Some text to test PDF search. Немного текста для тестирования.
\stoptext

Thanks for your time.

-- 
Best Regards,
Oleg Kolosov


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[-- Attachment #2: type-pscyr.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 10379 bytes --]

% ConTeXt typescript file for use with the PSCyr font package
% Version: 0.3.1

\starttypescriptcollection [pscyr]

\starttypescript [map] [pscyr] [t2a]
  \loadmapfile [pscyr.map]
\stoptypescript

% Academy
\starttypescript [serif] [academy] [name]
  \setups [font:fallback:serif]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]            [AcademyPSCyr-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]        [AcademyPSCyr-Bold]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]      [AcademyPSCyr-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted]     [AcademyPSCyr-Slanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]  [AcademyPSCyr-BoldSlanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldSlanted] [AcademyPSCyr-BoldSlanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]        [AcademyPSCyr-SmallCaps]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [academy] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [AcademyPSCyr-Regular]     [facr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AcademyPSCyr-Bold]        [facb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AcademyPSCyr-Italic]      [facri6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AcademyPSCyr-Slanted]     [facro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AcademyPSCyr-BoldSlanted] [facbo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AcademyPSCyr-SmallCaps]   [facrc6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% Antiqua
\starttypescript [serif] [antiqua] [name]
  \setups [font:fallback:serif]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]            [AntiquaPSCyr-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]        [AntiquaPSCyr-Bold]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]      [AntiquaPSCyr-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted]     [AntiquaPSCyr-Slanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]  [AntiquaPSCyr-BoldItalic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldSlanted] [AntiquaPSCyr-BoldSlanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]        [AntiquaPSCyr-SmallCaps]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [antiqua] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [AntiquaPSCyr-Regular]     [faqr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AntiquaPSCyr-Bold]        [faqb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AntiquaPSCyr-Italic]      [faqri6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AntiquaPSCyr-Slanted]     [faqro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AntiquaPSCyr-BoldItalic]  [faqbi6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AntiquaPSCyr-BoldSlanted] [faqbo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [AntiquaPSCyr-SmallCaps]   [faqrc6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% Handbook
\starttypescript [serif] [handbook] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [HandbookPSCyr-Regular]     [fhar6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [HandbookPSCyr-Bold]        [fhab6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [HandbookPSCyr-Italic]      [fhari6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [HandbookPSCyr-Slanted]     [fharo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [HandbookPSCyr-BoldSlanted] [fhabo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% College
\starttypescript [serif] [college] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [CollegePSCyr-Regular]     [fcor6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [CollegePSCyr-Bold]        [fcob6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [CollegePSCyr-Italic]      [fcori6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [CollegePSCyr-Slanted]     [fcoro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [CollegePSCyr-BoldSlanted] [fcobo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% Journal
\starttypescript [serif] [journal] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [JournalPSCyr-Regular]     [fjnr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [JournalPSCyr-Bold]        [fjnb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [JournalPSCyr-Italic]      [fjnri6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [JournalPSCyr-Slanted]     [fjnro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [JournalPSCyr-BoldSlanted] [fjnbo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% Lazurski
\starttypescript [serif] [lazurski] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [LazurskiPSCyr-Regular] [flzr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [LazurskiPSCyr-Slanted] [flzro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% Souvenir
\starttypescript [serif] [souvenir] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [SouvenirPSCyr-Regular]     [fsvr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [SouvenirPSCyr-Bold]        [fsvb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [SouvenirPSCyr-Slanted]     [fsvro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [SouvenirPSCyr-BoldSlanted] [fsvbo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% TimesNewRomanPSMT
\starttypescript [serif] [times] [name]
  \setups [font:fallback:serif]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]            [TimesNewRomanPSMT-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]        [TimesNewRomanPSMT-Bold]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]      [TimesNewRomanPSMT-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted]     [TimesNewRomanPSMT-Slanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]  [TimesNewRomanPSMT-BoldItalic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldSlanted] [TimesNewRomanPSMT-BoldSlanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]        [TimesNewRomanPSMT-SmallCaps]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [times] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [TimesNewRomanPSMT-Regular]     [ftmr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TimesNewRomanPSMT-Bold]        [ftmb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TimesNewRomanPSMT-Italic]      [ftmri6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TimesNewRomanPSMT-Slanted]     [ftmro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TimesNewRomanPSMT-BoldItalic]  [ftmbi6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TimesNewRomanPSMT-BoldSlanted] [ftmbo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TimesNewRomanPSMT-SmallCaps]   [ftmrc6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% ArialMT
\starttypescript [sans] [arial] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [ArialMT-Regular]     [farr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ArialMT-Bold]        [farb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ArialMT-Italic]      [farri6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ArialMT-BoldItalic]  [farbi6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ArialMT-Slanted]     [farro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ArialMT-BoldSlanted] [farbo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ArialMT-Black]       [farbe6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% Textbook
\starttypescript [sans] [textbook] [name]
  \setups [font:fallback:sans]
  \definefontsynonym [Sans]            [TextbookPSCyr-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [SansBold]        [TextbookPSCyr-Bold]
  \definefontsynonym [SansItalic]      [TextbookPSCyr-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SansSlanted]     [TextbookPSCyr-Slanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SansBoldItalic]  [TextbookPSCyr-BoldSlanted]
  \definefontsynonym [SansCaps]        [TextbookPSCyr-SmallCaps]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [sans] [textbook] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [TextbookPSCyr-Regular]     [ftxr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TextbookPSCyr-Bold]        [ftxb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TextbookPSCyr-Italic]      [ftxri6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TextbookPSCyr-Slanted]     [ftxro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TextbookPSCyr-BoldSlanted] [ftxbo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [TextbookPSCyr-SmallCaps]   [ftxrc6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% Magazine
\starttypescript [sans] [magazine] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [MagazinePSCyr-Regular]     [fmar6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [MagazinePSCyr-Bold]        [fmab6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [MagazinePSCyr-Italic]      [fmari6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [MagazinePSCyr-Slanted]     [fmaro6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [MagazinePSCyr-BoldSlanted] [fmabo6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% CourierNewPSMT
\starttypescript [mono] [courier] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [CourierNewPSMT-Regular]    [fcrr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [CourierNewPSMT-Bold]       [fcrb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [CourierNewPSMT-Italic]     [fcrri6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [CourierNewPSMT-BoldItalic] [fcrbi6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% ERKurier
\starttypescript [mono] [erkurier] [name]
  \setups [font:fallback:mono]
  \definefontsynonym [Mono]           [ERKurierPSCyr-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [MonoBold]       [ERKurierPSCyr-Bold]
  \definefontsynonym [MonoItalic]     [ERKurierPSCyr-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [MonoBoldItalic] [ERKurierPSCyr-BoldItalic]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [mono] [erkurier] [t2a]
  \definefontsynonym [ERKurierPSCyr-Regular]    [ferr6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ERKurierPSCyr-Bold]       [ferb6t]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ERKurierPSCyr-Italic]     [ferri6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
  \definefontsynonym [ERKurierPSCyr-BoldItalic] [ferbi6t] [encoding=\typescriptthree]
\stoptypescript

% Math
\starttypescript [math] [antiqua] [name]
  \definefontsynonym [MathRoman] [faqr7t]
  \definefontsynonym [MathItalic] [zfaqcmrm]
  \definefontsynonym [MathRomanBold] [faqb7t]
  \definefontsynonym [MathItalicBold] [zfaqcmbm]
\stoptypescript

% Typefaces
\starttypescript [pscyr] [t2a]
  \definetypeface [pscyr] [rm] [serif] [antiqua]  [default] [encoding=\typescripttwo]
  \definetypeface [pscyr] [ss] [sans]  [textbook] [default] [encoding=\typescripttwo]
  \definetypeface [pscyr] [tt] [mono]  [erkurier] [default] [encoding=\typescripttwo]
  \definetypeface [pscyr] [mm] [math]  [antiqua]  [default] [encoding=\typescripttwo]

  \definetypeface [pscyr-times] [rm] [serif] [times]    [default] [encoding=\typescripttwo]
  \definetypeface [pscyr-times] [ss] [sans]  [textbook] [default] [encoding=\typescripttwo]
  \definetypeface [pscyr-times] [tt] [mono]  [erkurier] [default] [encoding=\typescripttwo]
  \definetypeface [pscyr-times] [mm] [math]  [antiqua]  [default] [encoding=\typescripttwo]
\stoptypescript

\stoptypescriptcollection

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

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Re: searchable pdf in mkii, usepdffontresource stub

[Hans Hagen]

Oleg Kolosov wrote:
> Hans Hagen wrote:
>> Oleg Kolosov wrote:
>>  
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I'm trying to generate searchable pdf with cyrrillic glyphs with the 
>>> following:
>>>
>>> \enableregime[utf]
>>> \mainlanguage[ru]
>>> \setupencoding[default=t2a]
>>> \useencoding[pfr]
>>> \usepdffontresource t2a
>>> \usetypescript[pscyr][\defaultencoding] % type-pscyr is my own 
>>> typescript file
>>> \setupbodyfont[pscyr,14pt]
>>>
>>> also tried with:
>>>
>>> \startencoding[t2a]
>>> \usepdffontresource t2a
>>> \stopencoding
>>>
>>> It seems that \usepdffontresource does nothing. I see pdfr-def loaded 
>>> in log, but not pdfr-t2a. \input pdfr-t2a (or pdfr-ec) says that 
>>> \startpdffontresource is undefined command. I've created pdfr-t2a.tex 
>>> by replacing definitions in pdfr-ec with ones from cmap latex package 
>>> (found in file t2a.cmap). I'm using ConTeXt mkII since mkIV is in 
>>> active development. Tried also with ec as default encoding with the 
>>> same result (pdfr-ec.tex is not loaded).
>>>
>>> Please help me create header for minimal file which will generate 
>>> searchable PDF.
>>>     
>>
>> pdftex does it itself (i.e. create the vectors) using pdfr-def.tex 
>> (unless i did something wrong)
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>   
> It's unlikely. I've tested it with minimal file and english text is 
> indeed searchable, but cyrillic is not, with copy-paste I get some 
> strange symbols. I'm using type1 fonts from PSCyr package with my own 
> typescript, does this matter? I've attached  typescript file just in 
> case (it's still incomplete but works fine for me). Maybe I miss some 
> definition or option? BTW cyrillic in PDF TOC works fine (with inclusion 
> of spec-tst.tex).

can you check if the file has the right entris for your font?

    pdfr-def.tex

the old mechanism is obsolete so pdfr-t2a will not do anything

Hans


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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Jesse Alama]

"Mojca Miklavec" <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Jesse Alama wrote:
>> "Thomas A. Schmitz" writes:
>>
>> The basis for my own comments in this thread do not lie in a preference
>> for graphical tools, but rather for a straightforward way to stay
>> up-to-date with the whole of ConTeXt in a way that ctxtools does not
>> currently provide.  A command-line interface for that would be great,
>> and so would a graphical tool.
>
> That's not a general solution, but if you need it for yourself, you
> can put the following to some file and execute it whenever you want:
>
> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/context/beta/
> /path/to/your/texmf/
> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/luatex/linux/bin/
> /path/to/your/binaries/
> etc.
>
> There's a limited set of folders that you need to update, and it will
> only update new files, you don't need to update everything.

Two questions:

1. What's the difference between getting the texmf tree using rsync, as
you suggest, and using ctxtools --updatecontext?  Are those equivalent?

2. It looks like the subdirectories that I want are

  common
  context
  luatex
  man
  metapost

if I want to follow only luatex development.  (The only subdirectories
that aren't in that list are mswin, which doesn't apply to me, and
pdftex and xetex.)  I'd like to just put this on top of my TeXLive
(2007) distribution.  Once I copy thse binaries to my TeXLive binary
directory, what's the next step?  Do I need to rebuild the ConTeXt
format, for example?

What I'm looking for is a way to keep up-to-date with ConTeXt and LuaTeX
development; I'd rather not keep a separate installation with all and
only ConTeXt in it, together with a shell script that sets up *only*
ConTeXt.  I'm happy to keep up-to-date by overwriting the relevant parts
of my TeXLive distribution with the freshest texmf and binaries.  That
way, within a single shell I can use the freshest ConTeXt as well as
LaTeX and pacakges from the TeX Collection.  Perhaps I am going against
the intention of the "minimal installation"; but the discussion of how
to get a minimal ConTeXt installation overlaps with the discussion of
how to stay up-to-date.  I'm more interested in the latter than the
former.  Perhaps the best thing for such a user would be to just track
the TeXLive development tree using cvs or rsync.  I'm curious to hear
any suggetions.

Thanks,

Jesse

-- 
Jesse Alama (alama@stanford.edu)

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Alan Stone]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3103 bytes --]

Hi Jesse,

> 1. What's the difference between getting the texmf tree using rsync, as
> you suggest, and using ctxtools --updatecontext?  Are those equivalent?

You might read the underneath thread from here on, as well as its later
posts...
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20080620.070341.aca1fbd9.en.html

Maybe this short one also...
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20080621.153103.9fcfc856.en.html


Hope this helps,
Alan


On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Jesse Alama <alama@stanford.edu> wrote:
> "Mojca Miklavec" <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Jesse Alama wrote:
>>> "Thomas A. Schmitz" writes:
>>>
>>> The basis for my own comments in this thread do not lie in a preference
>>> for graphical tools, but rather for a straightforward way to stay
>>> up-to-date with the whole of ConTeXt in a way that ctxtools does not
>>> currently provide.  A command-line interface for that would be great,
>>> and so would a graphical tool.
>>
>> That's not a general solution, but if you need it for yourself, you
>> can put the following to some file and execute it whenever you want:
>>
>> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/context/beta/
>> /path/to/your/texmf/
>> rsync -av rsync://
contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/luatex/linux/bin/
>> /path/to/your/binaries/
>> etc.
>>
>> There's a limited set of folders that you need to update, and it will
>> only update new files, you don't need to update everything.
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1. What's the difference between getting the texmf tree using rsync, as
> you suggest, and using ctxtools --updatecontext?  Are those equivalent?
>
> 2. It looks like the subdirectories that I want are
>
>  common
>  context
>  luatex
>  man
>  metapost
>
> if I want to follow only luatex development.  (The only subdirectories
> that aren't in that list are mswin, which doesn't apply to me, and
> pdftex and xetex.)  I'd like to just put this on top of my TeXLive
> (2007) distribution.  Once I copy thse binaries to my TeXLive binary
> directory, what's the next step?  Do I need to rebuild the ConTeXt
> format, for example?
>
> What I'm looking for is a way to keep up-to-date with ConTeXt and LuaTeX
> development; I'd rather not keep a separate installation with all and
> only ConTeXt in it, together with a shell script that sets up *only*
> ConTeXt.  I'm happy to keep up-to-date by overwriting the relevant parts
> of my TeXLive distribution with the freshest texmf and binaries.  That
> way, within a single shell I can use the freshest ConTeXt as well as
> LaTeX and pacakges from the TeX Collection.  Perhaps I am going against
> the intention of the "minimal installation"; but the discussion of how
> to get a minimal ConTeXt installation overlaps with the discussion of
> how to stay up-to-date.  I'm more interested in the latter than the
> former.  Perhaps the best thing for such a user would be to just track
> the TeXLive development tree using cvs or rsync.  I'm curious to hear
> any suggetions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jesse
>
> --
> Jesse Alama (alama@stanford.edu)

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Jesse Alama wrote:
> "Mojca Miklavec" writes:
>
>> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Jesse Alama wrote:
>>> "Thomas A. Schmitz" writes:
>>>
>>> The basis for my own comments in this thread do not lie in a preference
>>> for graphical tools, but rather for a straightforward way to stay
>>> up-to-date with the whole of ConTeXt in a way that ctxtools does not
>>> currently provide.  A command-line interface for that would be great,
>>> and so would a graphical tool.
>>
>> That's not a general solution, but if you need it for yourself, you
>> can put the following to some file and execute it whenever you want:
>>
>> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/context/beta/
>> /path/to/your/texmf/
>> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/luatex/linux/bin/
>> /path/to/your/binaries/
>> etc.
>>
>> There's a limited set of folders that you need to update, and it will
>> only update new files, you don't need to update everything.
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1. What's the difference between getting the texmf tree using rsync,

It only downloads newer files & you can fetch binaries

> as
> you suggest, and using ctxtools --updatecontext?  Are those equivalent?

It downleady the whole zip every time you call it.

> 2. It looks like the subdirectories that I want are
>
>  common
>  context
>  luatex
>  man
>  metapost
>
> if I want to follow only luatex development.  (The only subdirectories
> that aren't in that list are mswin, which doesn't apply to me, and
> pdftex and xetex.)  I'd like to just put this on top of my TeXLive
> (2007) distribution.

What about trying to install TeX Live 2008? It desperately needs
testers at the moment, and all that you will need to do to stay up to
date is fetching:
- luatex
- context itself
- maybe luatool & mtxrun

> Once I copy thse binaries to my TeXLive binary
> directory, what's the next step?  Do I need to rebuild the ConTeXt
> format, for example?

Yes.

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: distro info

[George N. White III]

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 5:20 AM, Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Jesse Alama wrote:
>> "Mojca Miklavec" writes:
>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Jesse Alama wrote:
>>>> "Thomas A. Schmitz" writes:
>>>>
>>>> The basis for my own comments in this thread do not lie in a preference
>>>> for graphical tools, but rather for a straightforward way to stay
>>>> up-to-date with the whole of ConTeXt in a way that ctxtools does not
>>>> currently provide.  A command-line interface for that would be great,
>>>> and so would a graphical tool.
>>>
>>> That's not a general solution, but if you need it for yourself, you
>>> can put the following to some file and execute it whenever you want:
>>>
>>> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/context/beta/
>>> /path/to/your/texmf/
>>> rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/luatex/linux/bin/
>>> /path/to/your/binaries/
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> There's a limited set of folders that you need to update, and it will
>>> only update new files, you don't need to update everything.
>>
>> Two questions:
>>
>> 1. What's the difference between getting the texmf tree using rsync,
>
> It only downloads newer files & you can fetch binaries
>
>> as
>> you suggest, and using ctxtools --updatecontext?  Are those equivalent?
>
> It downleady the whole zip every time you call it.
>
>> 2. It looks like the subdirectories that I want are
>>
>>  common
>>  context
>>  luatex
>>  man
>>  metapost
>>
>> if I want to follow only luatex development.  (The only subdirectories
>> that aren't in that list are mswin, which doesn't apply to me, and
>> pdftex and xetex.)  I'd like to just put this on top of my TeXLive
>> (2007) distribution.

What I did to enable current context with my TL is:

1.  create a seaprate texmf-ctx tree that is populated from the .zip
archive

2.  create a parallel bin/i386-linux-l directory and put it before
/usr/local/texlive/2007/bin/i386-linux in the path.  Note that
this should have symbolic links to the scripts in the texmf-ctx tree
to ensure that the current scripts are used.

3.  copy the updated binaries to the bin/i386-linux-l directory

> What about trying to install TeX Live 2008? It desperately needs
> testers at the moment, and all that you will need to do to stay up to
> date is fetching:
> - luatex
> - context itself
> - maybe luatool & mtxrun
>
>> Once I copy thse binaries to my TeXLive binary
>> directory, what's the next step?  Do I need to rebuild the ConTeXt
>> format, for example?
>
> Yes.

It is important to catch as many problems in TL2008 as we can now,
and it is intended to have a current ConTeXt.  When you use free
tools there is some moral duty to help make them good, not only
for your own benefit, for for others.  Fresh eyes often spot problems
that experienced users overlook.

-- 
George N. White III <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
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