inter-word spacing (initials)

inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

I have the latest ConTeXt and  am using mkii.

One used to be able to reduce the spacing after an initial by by  
typing “.\<space>”, but this no longer seems to work. Compare the  
inter-word spacing in

\starttext
A. E. Samuel\crlf
A.\ E.\ Samuel

\stoptext

If the is a difference here, I am having trouble seeing it; and on a  
typeset page, the gaps after the initials just seem too big.

In general, I find that the spacing after certain characters ---e.g.,  
“)”---has been increased of late. Is this in fact the case? Or should  
I go back to my old glasses?

Cheers, Alan


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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[David]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:30:19 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:

> I have the latest ConTeXt and  am using mkii.
> 
> One used to be able to reduce the spacing after an initial by by  
> typing “.\<space>”, but this no longer seems to work. Compare the  
> inter-word spacing in
> 
> \starttext
> A. E. Samuel\crlf
> A.\ E.\ Samuel
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> If the is a difference here, I am having trouble seeing it; and on a  
> typeset page, the gaps after the initials just seem too big.
> 
> In general, I find that the spacing after certain characters ---e.g.,  
> “)”---has been increased of late. Is this in fact the case? Or should  
> I go back to my old glasses?

Have you tried:

\starttext
A. E. Samuel\crlf
A.~E.~Samuel

\stoptext

?

Last time I tried, this one worked for me.

David
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

Thanks, David. I tried

\starttext
A. E. Samuel\crlf
A.\ E.\ Samuel\crlf
A.~E.~Samuel

\stoptext

and can see no difference (ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.14 18:07 MKII). The  
tilde is not really a good way for me to go. The problem is that I  
publish a journal in which the bibliography is punctuated mainly by  
“.” Introducing tildes (which make spaces non-breaking) would affect  
the line-breaking negatively.

Alan

On Jul 16, 2008, at 22;27,59 , David wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:30:19 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>> I have the latest ConTeXt and  am using mkii.
>>
>> One used to be able to reduce the spacing after an initial by by
>> typing “.\<space>”, but this no longer seems to work. Compare the
>> inter-word spacing in
>>
>> \starttext
>> A. E. Samuel\crlf
>> A.\ E.\ Samuel
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> If the is a difference here, I am having trouble seeing it; and on a
>> typeset page, the gaps after the initials just seem too big.
>>
>> In general, I find that the spacing after certain characters ---e.g.,
>> “)”---has been increased of late. Is this in fact the case? Or should
>> I go back to my old glasses?
>
> Have you tried:
>
> \starttext
> A. E. Samuel\crlf
> A.~E.~Samuel
>
> \stoptext
>
> ?
>
> Last time I tried, this one worked for me.
>
> David
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[David]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:46:21 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:

> Thanks, David. I tried
> 
> \starttext
> A. E. Samuel\crlf
> A.\ E.\ Samuel\crlf
> A.~E.~Samuel
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> and can see no difference (ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.14 18:07 MKII). The  
> tilde is not really a good way for me to go. The problem is that I  
> publish a journal in which the bibliography is punctuated mainly by  
> “.” Introducing tildes (which make spaces non-breaking) would affect  
> the line-breaking negatively.

Oh - sorry about that.

What happens if you use your preferred way, but add the command 
\fixedspaces somewhere previously in the document?

I've discovered that this command is now required to get either the \ . 
or the ~. to have any effect for me. The problem is, I don't know how 
to turn it off afterwards. :-)

David
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

2008/7/17 David <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:46:21 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>> Thanks, David. I tried
>>
>> \starttext
>> A. E. Samuel\crlf
>> A.\ E.\ Samuel\crlf
>> A.~E.~Samuel
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> and can see no difference (ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.14 18:07 MKII). The
>> tilde is not really a good way for me to go. The problem is that I
>> publish a journal in which the bibliography is punctuated mainly by
>> "." Introducing tildes (which make spaces non-breaking) would affect
>> the line-breaking negatively.
>
> Oh - sorry about that.
>
> What happens if you use your preferred way, but add the command
> \fixedspaces somewhere previously in the document?
>
> I've discovered that this command is now required to get either the \ .
> or the ~. to have any effect for me. The problem is, I don't know how
> to turn it off afterwards. :-)

You can't, there is no command to reset it but this should do it.

\def\variablespaces
  {\letcatcodecommand \ctxcatcodes `\~ \nonbreakablespace}

Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[David]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:01:17 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> 2008/7/17 David <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com>:
>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:46:21 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks, David. I tried
>>> 
>>> \starttext
>>> A. E. Samuel\crlf
>>> A.\ E.\ Samuel\crlf
>>> A.~E.~Samuel
>>> 
>>> \stoptext
>>> 
>>> and can see no difference (ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.14 18:07 MKII). The
>>> tilde is not really a good way for me to go. The problem is that I
>>> publish a journal in which the bibliography is punctuated mainly by
>>> "." Introducing tildes (which make spaces non-breaking) would affect
>>> the line-breaking negatively.
>> 
>> Oh - sorry about that.
>> 
>> What happens if you use your preferred way, but add the command
>> \fixedspaces somewhere previously in the document?
>> 
>> I've discovered that this command is now required to get either the \ .
>> or the ~. to have any effect for me. The problem is, I don't know how
>> to turn it off afterwards. :-)
> 
> You can't, there is no command to reset it but this should do it.
> 
> \def\variablespaces
>   {\letcatcodecommand \ctxcatcodes `\~ \nonbreakablespace}


Thanks Wolfgang. I prefer to have this behaviour available all the 
time, and I don't understand why anyone would want it turned off - just 
wanted to apologize for giving incomplete information.

(Any idea why \fixedspaces has been changed from default to optional?)


Thanks
David
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:53 PM, David <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:01:17 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>> 2008/7/17 David <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com>:
>>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:46:21 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, David. I tried
>>>>
>>>> \starttext
>>>> A. E. Samuel\crlf
>>>> A.\ E.\ Samuel\crlf
>>>> A.~E.~Samuel
>>>>
>>>> \stoptext
>>>>
>>>> and can see no difference (ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.14 18:07 MKII). The
>>>> tilde is not really a good way for me to go. The problem is that I
>>>> publish a journal in which the bibliography is punctuated mainly by
>>>> "." Introducing tildes (which make spaces non-breaking) would affect
>>>> the line-breaking negatively.
>>>
>>> Oh - sorry about that.
>>>
>>> What happens if you use your preferred way, but add the command
>>> \fixedspaces somewhere previously in the document?
>>>
>>> I've discovered that this command is now required to get either the \ .
>>> or the ~. to have any effect for me. The problem is, I don't know how
>>> to turn it off afterwards. :-)
>>
>> You can't, there is no command to reset it but this should do it.
>>
>> \def\variablespaces
>>   {\letcatcodecommand \ctxcatcodes `\~ \nonbreakablespace}
>
>
> Thanks Wolfgang. I prefer to have this behaviour available all the
> time, and I don't understand why anyone would want it turned off - just
> wanted to apologize for giving incomplete information.
>
> (Any idea why \fixedspaces has been changed from default to optional?)

What do you mean with this, enabling \fixedspaces by default would
be a stupid decision because ~ would now insert only a space with
the width of "0" and not the width from a normal space.

Wolfgang
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2016 bytes --]

Thanks, David.

I had not realized that there was a command \fixedspaces. Is it  
documented somewhere?

The sample file
\starttext
\fixedspaces

A. E. Samuel\crlf
A.\ E.\ Samuel\crlf
A.~E.~Samuel

\stoptext

still produces the same spacing for “A. E. Samuel” and  “A.\ E.\  
Samuel”. The spacing in “A.~E.~Samuel” is visibly larger.

We seem to have lost a very fundamental TeX feature here—and gained  
others of questionable value such as the increased spacing after “)”.

Is there a way for a user to (re)define or customize such spacing  
issues?

Alan
On Jul 17, 2008, at 09;46,18 , David wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:46:21 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>> Thanks, David. I tried
>>
>> \starttext
>> A. E. Samuel\crlf
>> A.\ E.\ Samuel\crlf
>> A.~E.~Samuel
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> and can see no difference (ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.14 18:07 MKII). The
>> tilde is not really a good way for me to go. The problem is that I
>> publish a journal in which the bibliography is punctuated mainly by
>> “.” Introducing tildes (which make spaces non-breaking) would affect
>> the line-breaking negatively.
>
> Oh - sorry about that.
>
> What happens if you use your preferred way, but add the command
> \fixedspaces somewhere previously in the document?
>
> I've discovered that this command is now required to get either the  
> \ .
> or the ~. to have any effect for me. The problem is, I don't know how
> to turn it off afterwards. :-)
>
> David
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[David]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:13:15 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:

> Thanks, David.
> 
> I had not realized that there was a command \fixedspaces. Is it 
> documented somewhere?

It's in cont-eni on page 72. However, I have not needed the command 
until recently - I have used the tilde to create narrower spaces many 
times without using \fixedspaces in my old files, but lately it seems 
this step has become necessary (again?). I don't know when the change 
took place.

David
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inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

I apologize to all, but circumstances oblige me to pick up a very  
pedestrian thread for the third time.

As Peter Münster noted: in the following test-file

\starttext
x. x, x x\crlf
x, x. x x\crlf
x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
X. X, X X\crlf
X, X. X X\crlf
X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
X.\ X,\ X\ X
\stoptext

you see 2 bugs:

- in MKIV there is no bigger space after "x."
- in MKII the space after "x.\ " is a big one

The problem remains in ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.31 16:30 for MKII (which  
I am using). I am do not know if here have been any changes in MKIV.

Is there a fix for this in the works?  I am about to publish a series  
of pages which will look vastly better if this is fixed.

Alan



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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Charles P. Schaum]

Alan,

If you wand quick and dirty because you are against a hard deadline, use
inline math mode and insert negative space $\!$ AFTER the x. and
IMMEDIATELY BEFORE the next bit. You could also define a macro \negspace
to do it as well:

\def\negspace{$\!$}

so that

x, x. \negspace x x

will yield the spacing that

x, x.\ x x

ought to. It's an UGLY hack, but you'd be surprised at how ugly I hacked
my own thesis in LaTeX to get it converted to Word and get it in on
time. The very memory is traumatic.

Charles

On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 18:57 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:
> I apologize to all, but circumstances oblige me to pick up a very  
> pedestrian thread for the third time.
> 
> As Peter Münster noted: in the following test-file
> 
> \starttext
> x. x, x x\crlf
> x, x. x x\crlf
> x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
> x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
> X. X, X X\crlf
> X, X. X X\crlf
> X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
> X.\ X,\ X\ X
> \stoptext
> 
> you see 2 bugs:
> 
> - in MKIV there is no bigger space after "x."
> - in MKII the space after "x.\ " is a big one
> 
> The problem remains in ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.31 16:30 for MKII (which  
> I am using). I am do not know if here have been any changes in MKIV.
> 
> Is there a fix for this in the works?  I am about to publish a series  
> of pages which will look vastly better if this is fixed.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2657 bytes --]

Many thanks, Charles. This does work and I will use it if push comes  
to shove, as we say.

Alan
On Aug 2, 2008, at 22;46,00 , Charles P. Schaum wrote:

> Alan,
>
> If you wand quick and dirty because you are against a hard deadline,  
> use
> inline math mode and insert negative space $\!$ AFTER the x. and
> IMMEDIATELY BEFORE the next bit. You could also define a macro  
> \negspace
> to do it as well:
>
> \def\negspace{$\!$}
>
> so that
>
> x, x. \negspace x x
>
> will yield the spacing that
>
> x, x.\ x x
>
> ought to. It's an UGLY hack, but you'd be surprised at how ugly I  
> hacked
> my own thesis in LaTeX to get it converted to Word and get it in on
> time. The very memory is traumatic.
>
> Charles
>
> On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 18:57 -0400, Alan Bowen wrote:
>> I apologize to all, but circumstances oblige me to pick up a very
>> pedestrian thread for the third time.
>>
>> As Peter Münster noted: in the following test-file
>>
>> \starttext
>> x. x, x x\crlf
>> x, x. x x\crlf
>> x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
>> x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
>> X. X, X X\crlf
>> X, X. X X\crlf
>> X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
>> X.\ X,\ X\ X
>> \stoptext
>>
>> you see 2 bugs:
>>
>> - in MKIV there is no bigger space after "x."
>> - in MKII the space after "x.\ " is a big one
>>
>> The problem remains in ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.31 16:30 for MKII (which
>> I am using). I am do not know if here have been any changes in MKIV.
>>
>> Is there a fix for this in the works?  I am about to publish a series
>> of pages which will look vastly better if this is fixed.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
>> entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Hans Hagen]

Alan Bowen wrote:
> I apologize to all, but circumstances oblige me to pick up a very  
> pedestrian thread for the third time.
> 
> As Peter Münster noted: in the following test-file
> 
> \starttext
> x. x, x x\crlf
> x, x. x x\crlf
> x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
> x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
> X. X, X X\crlf
> X, X. X X\crlf
> X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
> X.\ X,\ X\ X
> \stoptext
> 
> you see 2 bugs:
> 
> - in MKIV there is no bigger space after "x."
> - in MKII the space after "x.\ " is a big one
> 
> The problem remains in ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.31 16:30 for MKII (which  
> I am using). I am do not know if here have been any changes in MKIV.
> 
> Is there a fix for this in the works?  I am about to publish a series  
> of pages which will look vastly better if this is fixed.

\unexpanded\def\ {\mathortext\normalspaceprimitive\space}

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2317 bytes --]

Thanks, Hans. In my test file I now have

\mainlanguage[en]
\unexpanded\def\ {\mathortext\normalspaceprimitive\space}

\starttext

x. x, x x\crlf
x, x. x x\crlf
x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
X. X, X X\crlf
X, X. X X\crlf
X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
X.\ X,\ X\ X

\stoptext

Unfortunately, I do not see any effect in the output (under MKII).   
The space after a period looks the same as the space after “.\ ”,  
though it should be bigger.

Alan

On Aug 3, 2008, at 12;05,30 , Hans Hagen wrote:

> Alan Bowen wrote:
>> I apologize to all, but circumstances oblige me to pick up a very
>> pedestrian thread for the third time.
>>
>> As Peter Münster noted: in the following test-file
>>
>> \starttext
>> x. x, x x\crlf
>> x, x. x x\crlf
>> x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
>> x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
>> X. X, X X\crlf
>> X, X. X X\crlf
>> X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
>> X.\ X,\ X\ X
>> \stoptext
>>
>> you see 2 bugs:
>>
>> - in MKIV there is no bigger space after "x."
>> - in MKII the space after "x.\ " is a big one
>>
>> The problem remains in ConTeXt  ver: 2008.07.31 16:30 for MKII (which
>> I am using). I am do not know if here have been any changes in MKIV.
>>
>> Is there a fix for this in the works?  I am about to publish a series
>> of pages which will look vastly better if this is fixed.
>
> \unexpanded\def\ {\mathortext\normalspaceprimitive\space}
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Hans Hagen]

Alan Bowen wrote:
> Thanks, Hans. In my test file I now have
> 
> \mainlanguage[en]
> \unexpanded\def\ {\mathortext\normalspaceprimitive\space}
> 
> \starttext
> 
> x. x, x x\crlf
> x, x. x x\crlf
> x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
> x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
> X. X, X X\crlf
> X, X. X X\crlf
> X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
> X.\ X,\ X\ X
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> Unfortunately, I do not see any effect in the output (under MKII).  The 
> space after a period looks the same as the space after “.\ ”, though it 
> should be bigger.

use \break instead, \crlf does a \hfill since there is no need for 
stretch when using crlf


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

Thanks, Hans. I simplified the test file.

\mainlanguage[en]

\unexpanded\def\ {\mathortext\normalspaceprimitive\space}

\starttext

A. E. Samuels.

A.\ E.\ Samuels.

\stoptext

  Do you see the required difference at your end? On my screen, the  
two lines look exactly the same (regardless of the length of the  
paragraphs).

Alan

On Aug 3, 2008, at 16;45,43 , Hans Hagen wrote:

> Alan Bowen wrote:
>> Thanks, Hans. In my test file I now have
>>
>> \mainlanguage[en]
>> \unexpanded\def\ {\mathortext\normalspaceprimitive\space}
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> x. x, x x\crlf
>> x, x. x x\crlf
>> x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
>> x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
>> X. X, X X\crlf
>> X, X. X X\crlf
>> X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
>> X.\ X,\ X\ X
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Unfortunately, I do not see any effect in the output (under MKII).   
>> The
>> space after a period looks the same as the space after “.\ ”,  
>> though it
>> should be bigger.
>
> use \break instead, \crlf does a \hfill since there is no need for
> stretch when using crlf
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Hans Hagen]

Alan Bowen wrote:
> Thanks, Hans. I simplified the test file.
> 
> \mainlanguage[en]
> 
> \unexpanded\def\ {\mathortext\normalspaceprimitive\space}
> 
> \starttext
> 
> A. E. Samuels.
> 
> A.\ E.\ Samuels.
> 
> \stoptext
> 
>   Do you see the required difference at your end? On my screen, the  
> two lines look exactly the same (regardless of the length of the  
> paragraphs).

sure, a space is a space, instead use:

A.|~|E.|~|Samuels.

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

That’s got it, Hans! I have replaced all my old “.\ ” with “.|~|”. My  
pages look much better now. Many thanks indeed.

All best, Alan

On Aug 4, 2008, at 10;23,22 , Hans Hagen wrote:

> Alan Bowen wrote:
>> Thanks, Hans. I simplified the test file.
>>
>> \mainlanguage[en]
>>
>> \unexpanded\def\ {\mathortext\normalspaceprimitive\space}
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> A. E. Samuels.
>>
>> A.\ E.\ Samuels.
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>>  Do you see the required difference at your end? On my screen, the
>> two lines look exactly the same (regardless of the length of the
>> paragraphs).
>
> sure, a space is a space, instead use:
>
> A.|~|E.|~|Samuels.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
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___________________________________________________________________________________

inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

My original query has generated some interesting sidelines but no  
solution, at least none that I can see. So, with all due apologies, I  
shall presume on your patience by restating my query.

In (English) typography the spacing after a period within a sentence  
is less that that after a period at the end of a sentence. Since the  
days of Plain TeX, one achieved the proper spacing after an intra- 
sentence period by entering “.\<space>”. My problem is that this no  
longer seems to work with recent versions of ConTeXt/MKII: “.\<space>”  
does not seem to have any effect at all.

So, how are we now to get the proper spacing after an intra-sentence  
period? Are there some language/spacing commands that need to be  
invoked in the prelims now?

Sample text:
\starttext

A. E. Samuels and other scholars.  The community of time{-}keepers.

A.\ E.\ Samuels and other scholars. The community of time{-}keepers.

\stoptext

Alan
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Peter Rolf]

Alan Bowen schrieb:
> My original query has generated some interesting sidelines but no  
> solution, at least none that I can see. So, with all due apologies, I  
> shall presume on your patience by restating my query.
> 
> In (English) typography the spacing after a period within a sentence  
> is less that that after a period at the end of a sentence. Since the  
> days of Plain TeX, one achieved the proper spacing after an intra- 
> sentence period by entering “.\<space>”. My problem is that this no  
> longer seems to work with recent versions of ConTeXt/MKII: “.\<space>”  
> does not seem to have any effect at all.
>
are you sure of that?

a citation from "The TeXbook", chapter 12: Glue

"Another way to get TeX to put out a normal space is to type '\ ' 
(control space); e.g., 'Mr.\ Drofnats' would be almost the same as 
'Mr.~Drofnats', exept that a line might end after the 'Mr.'. "

also: you don't need a control space here

from the exercise 12.5:

"TeX doesn't consider a period or question mark or exclamation point to 
be the end of a sentence if the preceding character is an uppercase 
letter, since TeX assumes that such uppercase letters are most likely 
somebody's initials'. "


what you want is just a smaller skip. so how about a *local* use of 
something like

\def\ {\thinspace}%

donno if this is possible (side effects) in your environment. maybe one 
of the gurus can give an answer. anyhow, interesting stuff :)


best wishes, peter

> So, how are we now to get the proper spacing after an intra-sentence  
> period? Are there some language/spacing commands that need to be  
> invoked in the prelims now?
> 
> Sample text:
> \starttext
> 
> A. E. Samuels and other scholars.  The community of time{-}keepers.
> 
> A.\ E.\ Samuels and other scholars. The community of time{-}keepers.
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> Alan
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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> 
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> 

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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

Thanks, Peter. You are right about (Plain) TeX--I just got into the  
habit of inserting them.

Defining my own macro to reproduce the control space is a possibility,  
and I will do that IF the current behavior of “.\ ’ and the tilde in  
MKII is not  remedied. (I have not switched to MKIV yet, but wonder  
what happens there.) The downside is that there is a good number of  
documents  that will require have to be encoded accordingly.

Cheers, Alan

On Jul 18, 2008, at 14;40,39 , Peter Rolf wrote:

> Alan Bowen schrieb:
>> My original query has generated some interesting sidelines but no
>> solution, at least none that I can see. So, with all due apologies, I
>> shall presume on your patience by restating my query.
>>
>> In (English) typography the spacing after a period within a sentence
>> is less that that after a period at the end of a sentence. Since the
>> days of Plain TeX, one achieved the proper spacing after an intra-
>> sentence period by entering “.\<space>”. My problem is that this no
>> longer seems to work with recent versions of ConTeXt/MKII: “. 
>> \<space>”
>> does not seem to have any effect at all.
>>
> are you sure of that?
>
> a citation from "The TeXbook", chapter 12: Glue
>
> "Another way to get TeX to put out a normal space is to type '\ '
> (control space); e.g., 'Mr.\ Drofnats' would be almost the same as
> 'Mr.~Drofnats', exept that a line might end after the 'Mr.'. "
>
> also: you don't need a control space here
>
> from the exercise 12.5:
>
> "TeX doesn't consider a period or question mark or exclamation point  
> to
> be the end of a sentence if the preceding character is an uppercase
> letter, since TeX assumes that such uppercase letters are most likely
> somebody's initials'. "
>
>
> what you want is just a smaller skip. so how about a *local* use of
> something like
>
> \def\ {\thinspace}%
>
> donno if this is possible (side effects) in your environment. maybe  
> one
> of the gurus can give an answer. anyhow, interesting stuff :)
>
>
> best wishes, peter
>
>> So, how are we now to get the proper spacing after an intra-sentence
>> period? Are there some language/spacing commands that need to be
>> invoked in the prelims now?
>>
>> Sample text:
>> \starttext
>>
>> A. E. Samuels and other scholars.  The community of time{-}keepers.
>>
>> A.\ E.\ Samuels and other scholars. The community of time{-}keepers.
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Alan
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
>> entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Peter Münster]

On Fri, Jul 18 2008, Alan Bowen wrote:

> In (English) typography the spacing after a period within a sentence  
> is less that that after a period at the end of a sentence. Since the  
> days of Plain TeX, one achieved the proper spacing after an intra- 
> sentence period by entering “.\<space>”. My problem is that this no  
> longer seems to work with recent versions of ConTeXt/MKII: “.\<space>”  
> does not seem to have any effect at all.

There are 2 kinds of spaces:

- inter-word space, that means a normal (strechable) space betweem words,
  examples:
  * word word
  * word, word
  * WORD. word
  * word.\ word
  * \mainlanguage[fr] word. word

- bigger space after period in english text:
  * \mainlanguage[en] word.  word

And if you consider the following test-file:

\starttext
x. x, x x\crlf
x, x. x x\crlf
x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
X. X, X X\crlf
X, X. X X\crlf
X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
X.\ X,\ X\ X
\stoptext

you see 2 bugs:

- in MKIV there is no bigger space after "x."
- in MKII the space after "x.\ " is a big one

Tested with context source date: 2008.07.18 18:38.

Cheers, Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

Thanks, Peter. I was wondering about MKIV. (Switching is on my summer  
“to do” list.)

Best, Alan

On Jul 18, 2008, at 15;22,31 , Peter Münster wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 18 2008, Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>> In (English) typography the spacing after a period within a sentence
>> is less that that after a period at the end of a sentence. Since the
>> days of Plain TeX, one achieved the proper spacing after an intra-
>> sentence period by entering “.\<space>”. My problem is that this no
>> longer seems to work with recent versions of ConTeXt/MKII: “. 
>> \<space>”
>> does not seem to have any effect at all.
>
> There are 2 kinds of spaces:
>
> - inter-word space, that means a normal (strechable) space betweem  
> words,
>  examples:
>  * word word
>  * word, word
>  * WORD. word
>  * word.\ word
>  * \mainlanguage[fr] word. word
>
> - bigger space after period in english text:
>  * \mainlanguage[en] word.  word
>
> And if you consider the following test-file:
>
> \starttext
> x. x, x x\crlf
> x, x. x x\crlf
> x,\ x.\ x\ x\crlf
> x.\ x,\ x\ x\crlf
> X. X, X X\crlf
> X, X. X X\crlf
> X,\ X.\ X\ X\crlf
> X.\ X,\ X\ X
> \stoptext
>
> you see 2 bugs:
>
> - in MKIV there is no bigger space after "x."
> - in MKII the space after "x.\ " is a big one
>
> Tested with context source date: 2008.07.18 18:38.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
> -- 
> http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

I have the latest ConTeXt and  am using mkii.

One used to be able to reduce the spacing after an initial by by  
typing “.\<space>”, but this no longer seems to work. Compare the  
inter-word spacing in

\starttext
A. E. Samuel\crlf
A.\ E.\ Samuel

\stoptext

If the is a difference here, I am having trouble seeing it; and on a  
typeset page, the gaps after the initials just seem too big.

In general, I find that the spacing after certain characters ---e.g.,  
“)”---has been increased of late. Is this in fact the case? Or should  
I go back to my old glasses?

Cheers, Alan


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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Alan Bowen <acbowen@princeton.edu> wrote:
> I have the latest ConTeXt and  am using mkii.
>
> One used to be able to reduce the spacing after an initial by by
> typing ".\<space>", but this no longer seems to work. Compare the
> inter-word spacing in
>
> \starttext
> A. E. Samuel\crlf
> A.\ E.\ Samuel
>
> \stoptext
>
> If the is a difference here, I am having trouble seeing it; and on a
> typeset page, the gaps after the initials just seem too big.
>
> In general, I find that the spacing after certain characters ---e.g.,
> ")"---has been increased of late. Is this in fact the case? Or should
> I go back to my old glasses?

AFAIK the '\ ' after the dot should prevent to stretch the space.

Wolfgang
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Re: inter-word spacing (initials)

[Alan Bowen]

That is my understanding too, Wolfgang. But I am just not seeing it  
either in the example or in my documents.

So what’s up? As I said in a more recent posting, this is affecting my  
journal adversely.

Alan

On Jul 17, 2008, at 07;56,25 , Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Alan Bowen <acbowen@princeton.edu>  
> wrote:
>> I have the latest ConTeXt and  am using mkii.
>>
>> One used to be able to reduce the spacing after an initial by by
>> typing ".\<space>", but this no longer seems to work. Compare the
>> inter-word spacing in
>>
>> \starttext
>> A. E. Samuel\crlf
>> A.\ E.\ Samuel
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> If the is a difference here, I am having trouble seeing it; and on a
>> typeset page, the gaps after the initials just seem too big.
>>
>> In general, I find that the spacing after certain characters ---e.g.,
>> ")"---has been increased of late. Is this in fact the case? Or should
>> I go back to my old glasses?
>
> AFAIK the '\ ' after the dot should prevent to stretch the space.
>
> Wolfgang
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
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