Reorganization of the main page

Reorganization of the main page

[Aditya Mahajan]

Hi,

After the discussions at Bohinj, I have created a new first page of the 
wiki. I am tried to keep things short and to the point, rather than 
complete. As a result a lot of links that were present in the original 
main page are missing. This is the first step in the effort to clean up 
and reorganize the wiki so that it is easier to browse. Comments are 
welcome

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New

If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main 
page.

Aditya
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Andrea Valle]

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I like it a lot

So, new logo from Bohinj?

-a-

On 26 Aug 2008, at 12:19, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> Hi,
>
> After the discussions at Bohinj, I have created a new first page of  
> the
> wiki. I am tried to keep things short and to the point, rather than
> complete. As a result a lot of links that were present in the original
> main page are missing. This is the first step in the effort to  
> clean up
> and reorganize the wiki so that it is easier to browse. Comments are
> welcome
>
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New
>
> If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current  
> main
> page.
>
> Aditya
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Yue Wang]

but where is the original search buttom? I don't like the google
special search here:(

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After the discussions at Bohinj, I have created a new first page of the
> wiki. I am tried to keep things short and to the point, rather than
> complete. As a result a lot of links that were present in the original
> main page are missing. This is the first step in the effort to clean up
> and reorganize the wiki so that it is easier to browse. Comments are
> welcome
>
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New
>
> If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main
> page.
>
> Aditya
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 06:19:59AM -0400, Aditya Mahajan napisał(a):
> Hi,
> 
> After the discussions at Bohinj, I have created a new first page of the 
> wiki. I am tried to keep things short and to the point, rather than 
> complete. As a result a lot of links that were present in the original 
> main page are missing. This is the first step in the effort to clean up 
> and reorganize the wiki so that it is easier to browse. Comments are 
> welcome

Very nice work!  The new page is way better.  I guess the only thing I'm
missing is the link to "The ConTeXt Way"; maybe at the beginning of
"Specific Subjects..." (which, btw, I'd rename to "Subjects Specific to
ConTeXt")?

> 
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New
> 
> If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main 
> page.
> 
> Aditya

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.faculty.fmcs.amu.edu.pl)

People can be divided into three groups: those who can count and those
who can't.
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Alan Stone]

It has a much better structure indeed.

Missing the wiki-only search feature though.

Placing the texshow-web and mail archive links in a more relevant
section, instead of hidden in the wiki's left column, would be welcome
- especially for newbies.

Also, when a newbie reads "texshow-web" (s)he doesn't have a clue what
that means. It's geek talk. Better say something like "ConTeXt
commands directory" or something else that's meaningful, relevant and
useful for them.

Samewise:

- live context
- download
- download area

All these don't mean a thing to somebody who sees this page for the first time.

Live ConTeXt ? What's that ? A live recording of a band named ConTeXt
? (joking ;O)

Download and download area? What's the difference ? As a newbie I
don't want to have waste my time and click on every link to find out
what's behind it. Tell me from the link itself what it means, what's
behind it so I can find what I'm looking for and get up to speed asap.

As for the logo...

Who cares ?

Logo's don't enable people to figure out how to use software and be
productive with it.

The proof is in the pudding, not in the logo.

Hope that helps.

Best,
Alan
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> but where is the original search buttom? I don't like the google
> special search here:(

I've removed it in favour of the google one. I thought two search
areas could be confusing.

What do the others think?


@Mojca: could you update the custom google search to the new logo?

Patrick

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> Missing the wiki-only search feature though.

OK, you're number two. I'll think about it.

> Also, when a newbie reads "texshow-web" (s)he doesn't have a clue what
> that means.

Jano Kula suggested to rename it to "reference" or sth. like that.
I'll do so.

> - live context
> - download
> - download area

Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking
of some.

> All these don't mean a thing to somebody who sees this page for the
> first time.

You're right.

> As for the logo...
>
> Who cares ?
>
> Logo's don't enable people to figure out how to use software and be
> productive with it.
>
> The proof is in the pudding, not in the logo.

Right, but presenting ConTeXt in a more professional way could be
worth an effort. A new logo is one step forward, even it will
disappear again in some day.

Patrick
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:14:10AM +0200, Patrick Gundlach napisał(a):
 > As for the logo...
> >
> > Who cares ?
> >
> > Logo's don't enable people to figure out how to use software and be
> > productive with it.
> >
> > The proof is in the pudding, not in the logo.
> 
> Right, but presenting ConTeXt in a more professional way could be
> worth an effort. A new logo is one step forward, even it will
> disappear again in some day.

On my personal webpage, I'm using a small wiki engine called oddmuse.
It's maunal says in one place:
"Logos and little icons (usually smilies) are eye candy and therefore of
utmost importance."

As you said: a professional-looking logo is a good thing.

BTW: the current logo looks like this:

    O
  C   N
    E
  T   X
    T

I don't like the order; what about 
    O                                                                           
  C   N                                                                         
    T                                                                           
  T   X                                                                         
    E
?

This way, we emphasize the TeX logo inside the ConTeXt one.                                                                           
> Patrick

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.faculty.fmcs.amu.edu.pl)

- Why did a mathematician call his dog Cauchy?
- Because it left a residue at every pole.
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Flavien Lambert]

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2008/8/27 Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch>


> > - live context
> > - download
> > - download area
>
>
> Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking
> of some.
>

Hello guys, what about "In-line ConTeXt" for live context ?

-- 
Flavien.
----------------------------
"Quantum objects are completely crazy but, at least, they are all crazy in
the same way." R.P. Feynman.

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:26:38AM +0200, Flavien Lambert napisał(a):
> 2008/8/27 Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch>
> 
> 
> > > - live context
> > > - download
> > > - download area
> >
> >
> > Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking
> > of some.
> >
> 
> Hello guys, what about "In-line ConTeXt" for live context ?

Or maybe:

"ConTeXt online"

or

"ConTeXt in your web browser"?

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.faculty.fmcs.amu.edu.pl)

- Why vim users don't use the ESC key?
- It's too far on the keyboard.  It's faster to type ctrl-[.
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Eric DÉTREZ]

Le 27 août 08 à 11:20, Marcin Borkowski a écrit :

>
> As you said: a professional-looking logo is a good thing.
>
> BTW: the current logo looks like this:
>
>    O
>  C   N
>    E
>  T   X
>    T

> I don't like the order;


I didn't like it neither

>  what about
>    O
>  C   N
>    T
>  T   X
>    E
> ?

I rather suggest

   O
C   N
    E
T    T
    X




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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,

Eric DÉTREZ wrote:
> I rather suggest
> 
>    O
> C   N
>     E
> T    T
>     X

I just noticed that at some point, Patrick emailed me a
file that went like this:

     O
   C   N
   T   T
     EX

I'll try to mock something up using that layout,
it should work out pretty well

Best wishes,
Taco

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Alan Stone]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1830 bytes --]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> Missing the wiki-only search feature though.
>
> OK, you're number two. I'll think about it.

Here's why Patrick: a wiki being a source of documentation, that's where I
look for next
when not finding something in the paper manuals and texshow. If I don't find
it there,
digging deeper through the mailing archive is useful. Having everything
mixed up through
one google search blurb is oftentimes confusing due to the lack of
structure.

>> Also, when a newbie reads "texshow-web" (s)he doesn't have a clue what
>> that means.
>
> Jano Kula suggested to rename it to "reference" or sth. like that.
> I'll do so.

Reference of what ?

> Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking
> of some.
>
>> - live context  -> Try out ConTeXt online
>> - download     -> Download the ConTeXt application
>> - download area   ->  Download examples, 3rd party modules, articles,
MyWay reports, ...

Some other ideas...

- A clearly visible (colored ?) banner or link on top of the main page
saying something like "If you're new to ConTeXt, click here to get started
fast..." which redirects to the main page "Getting Started section" might be
useful.

- http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals
The Minimals are an attempt to provide the same functionality as the current
Pragma's minimal ConTeXt distributions in the zip files. Etc...

This is quite confusing for a newbie: "If I install the ConTeXt Minimals,
what will I be missing what's in the Pragma's minimal distribution ?"

Better might be to say something like: "In order to provide you the easiest
and most current ConTeXt installation and updates, the ConTeXt Minimals are
the recommended installation", or whatever else is currently most relevant.

Best,
Alan

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Jörg Hagmann]

Another vote for keeping the original wiki search
Jörg


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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> but where is the original search buttom? I don't like the google
>> special search here:(

I also agree that wiki search is missing, and I would put a search
button somewhere on the top.

> I've removed it in favour of the google one. I thought two search
> areas could be confusing.
>
> What do the others think?
>
>
> @Mojca: could you update the custom google search to the new logo?

Done, but please delete the gray line below the logo.

(slightly more than 12 hours since I finally came home, still didn't
catch for the lack of sleep :)

Mojca
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Alan Stone
<software.list.1es9s@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch>
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>> Missing the wiki-only search feature though.
>>
>> OK, you're number two. I'll think about it.
>
> Here's why Patrick: a wiki being a source of documentation, that's where I
> look for next
> when not finding something in the paper manuals and texshow. If I don't find
> it there,
> digging deeper through the mailing archive is useful. Having everything
> mixed up through
> one google search blurb is oftentimes confusing due to the lack of
> structure.

You can choose to only search the wiki pages with google.

> - A clearly visible (colored ?) banner or link on top of the main page
> saying something like "If you're new to ConTeXt, click here to get started
> fast..." which redirects to the main page "Getting Started section" might be
> useful.
>
> - http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals
> The Minimals are an attempt to provide the same functionality as the current
> Pragma's minimal ConTeXt distributions in the zip files. Etc...
>
> This is quite confusing for a newbie: "If I install the ConTeXt Minimals,
> what will I be missing what's in the Pragma's minimal distribution ?"

Hans has updated the zips on Pragma recently, so I'm not so sure any
more what's still missing.

> Better might be to say something like: "In order to provide you the easiest
> and most current ConTeXt installation and updates, the ConTeXt Minimals are
> the recommended installation", or whatever else is currently most relevant.

They still don't work quite the way I would like them to work.

Mojca
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Mojca Miklavec]

Another request: can the photo please go to blog rather than being on
the first page of the wiki? (It's been fun, but I feel that promoting
Union on the first page is not the best idea :)

Mojca
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Mohamed Bana]

Aditya Mahajan <adityam <at> umich.edu> writes:

> 
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New
> 
> If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main 
> page.
> 
> Aditya
> 

Hi,

I like it.

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

>>> Missing the wiki-only search feature though.
>>
>> OK, you're number two. I'll think about it.
>
> Here's why Patrick: a wiki being a source of documentation, that's where I
> look for next
> when not finding something in the paper manuals and texshow. If I don't find
> it there,
> digging deeper through the mailing archive is useful. Having everything
> mixed up through
> one google search blurb is oftentimes confusing due to the lack of
> structure.

But the wiki search really sucks. Search for example for 'my Way': no
matches found.

I'd like to have a solution where we only have one search box (google)
which only searches the wiki by default. @Mojca: can this be done?

>>> Also, when a newbie reads "texshow-web" (s)he doesn't have a clue what
>>> that means.
>>
>> Jano Kula suggested to rename it to "reference" or sth. like that.
>> I'll do so.
>
> Reference of what ?

of all commands. It is better then texshow(-web). Other suggestions?

>>> - live context  -> Try out ConTeXt online
>>> - download     -> Download the ConTeXt application
>>> - download area   ->  Download examples, 3rd party modules, articles,
> MyWay reports, ...

Way too long to fit into the left box!

> Some other ideas...
>
> - A clearly visible (colored ?) banner or link on top of the main page
> saying something like "If you're new to ConTeXt, click here to get started
> fast..." which redirects to the main page "Getting Started section" might be
> useful.

See Aditya's suggestion. Would this be OK?

> - http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals
> The Minimals are an attempt to provide the same functionality as the current
> Pragma's minimal ConTeXt distributions in the zip files. Etc...

They will be renamed to either "distribution" or "official
distribution" and the "only" supported way of installing context.

> This is quite confusing for a newbie: "If I install the ConTeXt Minimals,
> what will I be missing what's in the Pragma's minimal distribution
> ?"

This is absolutely true. Because of this we will remove the part
"minimals" from the name.

Thanks a lot for your suggestions!


Patrick

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Alan Stone]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1060 bytes --]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch> wrote:

>
> > Reference of what ?
>
> of all commands. It is better then texshow(-web). Other suggestions?


Then "commands reference", instead of "reference".

>>> - live context  -> Try out ConTeXt online
> >>> - download     -> Download the ConTeXt application
> >>> - download area   ->  Download examples, 3rd party modules, articles,
> > MyWay reports, ...
>
> Way too long to fit into the left box!


Make the box wider and/or spread the text over more than one line.

If impossible, wiki also sucks regarding this feature.  ;O)

 > Some other ideas...
> >
> > - A clearly visible (colored ?) banner or link on top of the main page
> > saying something like "If you're new to ConTeXt, click here to get
> started
> > fast..." which redirects to the main page "Getting Started section" might
> be
> > useful.
>
> See Aditya's suggestion. Would this be OK?


The only way to know is to test it and observe whether newbies ask questions
or complain,
then adapt if required.

Best,
Alan

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-08-27 um 10:48 schrieb Patrick Gundlach:

>> but where is the original search buttom? I don't like the google
>> special search here:(
>
> I've removed it in favour of the google one. I thought two search
> areas could be confusing.
>
> What do the others think?

Mostly I only want to search the wiki and not everything about ConTeXt.


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
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https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-08-27 um 11:26 schrieb Flavien Lambert:

> > - live context
> > - download
> > - download area
>
>
> Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking
> of some.
>
> Hello guys, what about "In-line ConTeXt" for live context ?


I'd stay with "Live ConTeXt" (or "ConTeXt live") - the "live" idiom is  
very common, e.g. for Linux CDs.
Maybe a newbie expects a CD for trying, but it says "try me".


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
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http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Yue Wang]

in fact i like the logo on the photo.
It's cool

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> Another request: can the photo please go to blog rather than being on
> the first page of the wiki? (It's been fun, but I feel that promoting
> Union on the first page is not the best idea :)
>
> Mojca
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> But the wiki search really sucks. Search for example for 'my Way': no
> matches found.

Would it make sense to default to wiki search for the google
search? Mojca, can this be done?

Patrick

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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New
>
> If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main
> page.

Since almost everyone liked the new design better, I have changed the main 
page.

Aditya
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> But the wiki search really sucks. Search for example for 'my Way': no
>> matches found.
>
> Would it make sense to default to wiki search for the google
> search? Mojca, can this be done?

It must be some very basic trick. I guess that you need to add a
hidden field with something like
    <input type="hidden" name="q" value="more:wiki" />

In any case: search needs to look like:
    q=bla+more:wiki

But I didn't figure out how to do refined searches at the beginning yet.

Mojca
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Re: Reorganization of the main page

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 04:35:18PM -0400, Aditya Mahajan napisał(a):
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> > http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New
> >
> > If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main
> > page.
> 
> Since almost everyone liked the new design better, I have changed the main 
> page.

That's great - now I don't have to bookmark the "Main_Page_New"!
Thanks!

> 
> Aditya

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.faculty.fmcs.amu.edu.pl)

888
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