* MkII vs. MkIV @ 2008-11-04 20:06 Marcin Borkowski 2008-11-04 20:20 ` Aditya Mahajan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-04 20:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users Hi, Is it normal that output from MkII and MkIV are different in terms of page breaks? Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) - Why vim users don't use the ESC key? - It's too far on the keyboard. It's faster to type ctrl-[. ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-04 20:06 MkII vs. MkIV Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-04 20:20 ` Aditya Mahajan 2008-11-04 20:41 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-11-04 20:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Marcin Borkowski wrote: > Hi, > > Is it normal that output from MkII and MkIV are different in terms of > page breaks? Yes. In MKII the interline space is hard coded. MKIV gets the interline space from the font. So, you will get different page breaks. I experienced around 2-5 pages difference in a 100 page document. Aditya ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-04 20:20 ` Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-11-04 20:41 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-11-04 20:59 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-11-05 3:00 ` Aditya Mahajan 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-11-04 20:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Am 04.11.2008 um 21:20 schrieb Aditya Mahajan: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Marcin Borkowski wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Is it normal that output from MkII and MkIV are different in terms of >> page breaks? > > Yes. In MKII the interline space is hard coded. MKIV gets the > interline > space from the font. So, you will get different page breaks. I > experienced > around 2-5 pages difference in a 100 page document. The interlinespace in MkII and MkIV is the same and both use a distance of 2.8ex between the lines. One difference between the two engines are the used fonts, pdfTeX use type 1 fonts and luaTeX MkIV opentype fonts. Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-04 20:41 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-11-04 20:59 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-11-04 21:06 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2008-11-05 3:00 ` Aditya Mahajan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-04 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 09:41:43PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a): > > Am 04.11.2008 um 21:20 schrieb Aditya Mahajan: > > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Marcin Borkowski wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> Is it normal that output from MkII and MkIV are different in terms of > >> page breaks? > > > > Yes. In MKII the interline space is hard coded. MKIV gets the > > interline > > space from the font. So, you will get different page breaks. I > > experienced > > around 2-5 pages difference in a 100 page document. > > The interlinespace in MkII and MkIV is the same and both use a distance > of 2.8ex between the lines. One difference between the two engines are > the used fonts, pdfTeX use type 1 fonts and luaTeX MkIV opentype fonts. Thank you for your prompt answers. I am a bit surprised, though, that the otf and Type1 Latin Modern fonts are not compatible. Strange thing. Seems it will be a good idea to stick to MkIV... > > Wolfgang > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) Stłumiony głos w końcu wypowie słowo prawdy - otworzą się usta! Prawda - choćby zdeptana - zawsze pozostanie prawdą! Żadna przemoc, chamstwo, kłamstwo nie uczynią z niej ofiary! (Izaiash) ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-04 20:59 ` Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-04 21:06 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2008-11-04 21:51 ` Marcin Borkowski 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Arthur Reutenauer @ 2008-11-04 21:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users > Thank you for your prompt answers. I am a bit surprised, though, that > the otf and Type1 Latin Modern fonts are not compatible. Strange thing. You should come to BachoTeX. In 2007 Jerzy Ludwichowski and Bogusław Jackowski started their talk about TeX Gyre by screaming "Full compatibility means no progress!" at the audience :-) Arthur ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-04 21:06 ` Arthur Reutenauer @ 2008-11-04 21:51 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-11-04 22:02 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-04 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 10:06:13PM +0100, Arthur Reutenauer napisał(a): > > Thank you for your prompt answers. I am a bit surprised, though, that > > the otf and Type1 Latin Modern fonts are not compatible. Strange thing. > > You should come to BachoTeX. In 2007 Jerzy Ludwichowski and Bogusław > Jackowski started their talk about TeX Gyre by screaming "Full > compatibility means no progress!" at the audience :-) I know that, I read some of the GUST people papers;). I thought, however, that it wouldn't influence my documents *so much*;). Coming to Bachotek in 2008 is impossible for me (as I already wrote, I guess): me and my wife will celebrate our 5th wedding anniversary:). Maybe in 2009... > Arthur Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) 888 * ostre słowa * ostra muzyka * ostra płyta ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-04 21:51 ` Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-04 22:02 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-11-04 22:18 ` Marcin Borkowski 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-11-04 22:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Am 04.11.2008 um 22:51 schrieb Marcin Borkowski: > Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 10:06:13PM +0100, Arthur Reutenauer > napisał(a): >>> Thank you for your prompt answers. I am a bit surprised, though, >>> that >>> the otf and Type1 Latin Modern fonts are not compatible. Strange >>> thing. >> >> You should come to BachoTeX. In 2007 Jerzy Ludwichowski and >> Bogusław >> Jackowski started their talk about TeX Gyre by screaming "Full >> compatibility means no progress!" at the audience :-) > > I know that, I read some of the GUST people papers;). I thought, > however, that it wouldn't influence my documents *so much*;). LuaTeX did not always behave like pdfTeX and if you want the same result in your document as in the past, don't switch. The different code for MkII and MkIV are another reason for different output in a few cases. Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-04 22:02 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-11-04 22:18 ` Marcin Borkowski 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-04 22:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 11:02:13PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a): > > Am 04.11.2008 um 22:51 schrieb Marcin Borkowski: > > > Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 10:06:13PM +0100, Arthur Reutenauer > > napisał(a): > >>> Thank you for your prompt answers. I am a bit surprised, though, > >>> that > >>> the otf and Type1 Latin Modern fonts are not compatible. Strange > >>> thing. > >> > >> You should come to BachoTeX. In 2007 Jerzy Ludwichowski and > >> Bogusław > >> Jackowski started their talk about TeX Gyre by screaming "Full > >> compatibility means no progress!" at the audience :-) > > > > I know that, I read some of the GUST people papers;). I thought, > > however, that it wouldn't influence my documents *so much*;). > > LuaTeX did not always behave like pdfTeX and if you want the same result > in your document as in the past, don't switch. The different code for > MkII and > MkIV are another reason for different output in a few cases. Well, since I'm really a beginner, I don't have much ConTeXt documents. So I guess the sooner I switch, the better - especially that MkIV is better for my itemizations;). > > Wolfgang > Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) 888 * Nie lękaj się * Ja zawsze będę z Tobą! ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-04 20:41 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-11-04 20:59 ` Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-05 3:00 ` Aditya Mahajan 2008-11-05 9:48 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-11-05 14:29 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-11-05 3:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > > Am 04.11.2008 um 21:20 schrieb Aditya Mahajan: > >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Marcin Borkowski wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Is it normal that output from MkII and MkIV are different in terms of >>> page breaks? >> >> Yes. In MKII the interline space is hard coded. MKIV gets the >> interline >> space from the font. So, you will get different page breaks. I >> experienced >> around 2-5 pages difference in a 100 page document. > > The interlinespace in MkII and MkIV is the same and both use a distance > of 2.8ex between the lines. Yes, but ex means different dimensions in pdftex and luatex. For example \starttext 1ex = \the\dimexpr1ex\relax \crlf 2.8ex = \the\dimexpr2.8ex\relax \stoptext gives in MKII 1ex = 5.16667pt 2.8ex = 14.46669pt and in MKIV gives 1ex = 5.172pt 2.8ex = 14.4816pt The reason is that what ex means is hardcoded in MKII but MKIV gets this info from the font. For example, if I use palatino at 12pt, the result in MKII does not change, but MKIV gives 1ex = 5.388pt 2.8ex = 15.08641pt So, depending on the font, MKII and MKIV can have considerably different lines per page. Aditya ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-05 3:00 ` Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-11-05 9:48 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-11-05 14:29 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-11-05 9:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:00 AM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > >> >> Am 04.11.2008 um 21:20 schrieb Aditya Mahajan: >> >>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Marcin Borkowski wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Is it normal that output from MkII and MkIV are different in terms of >>>> page breaks? >>> >>> Yes. In MKII the interline space is hard coded. MKIV gets the >>> interline >>> space from the font. So, you will get different page breaks. I >>> experienced >>> around 2-5 pages difference in a 100 page document. >> >> The interlinespace in MkII and MkIV is the same and both use a distance >> of 2.8ex between the lines. > > Yes, but ex means different dimensions in pdftex and luatex. For example > > \starttext > > 1ex = \the\dimexpr1ex\relax \crlf > 2.8ex = \the\dimexpr2.8ex\relax > > \stoptext > > gives in MKII > > 1ex = 5.16667pt > 2.8ex = 14.46669pt Interesting! \font\palatino=texnansi-uplr8a at 12pt \starttext 1ex = \the\dimexpr\exheight\relax\crlf 2.8ex = \the\dimexpr2.8\exheight\relax \blank 1ex = \the\dimexpr\fontdimen5\palatino\relax \crlf 2.8ex = \the\dimexpr2.8\fontdimen5\palatino\relax \stoptext > and in MKIV gives > > 1ex = 5.172pt > 2.8ex = 14.4816pt > > The reason is that what ex means is hardcoded in MKII but MKIV gets this > info from the font. For example, if I use palatino at 12pt, the result in > MKII does not change, but MKIV gives > > 1ex = 5.388pt > 2.8ex = 15.08641pt > > So, depending on the font, MKII and MKIV can have considerably different > lines per page. Thanks for the example, another point to use LuaTeX. Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: MkII vs. MkIV 2008-11-05 3:00 ` Aditya Mahajan 2008-11-05 9:48 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-11-05 14:29 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-11-05 14:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Aditya Mahajan wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > >> Am 04.11.2008 um 21:20 schrieb Aditya Mahajan: >> >>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Marcin Borkowski wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Is it normal that output from MkII and MkIV are different in terms of >>>> page breaks? >>> Yes. In MKII the interline space is hard coded. MKIV gets the >>> interline >>> space from the font. So, you will get different page breaks. I >>> experienced >>> around 2-5 pages difference in a 100 page document. >> The interlinespace in MkII and MkIV is the same and both use a distance >> of 2.8ex between the lines. > > Yes, but ex means different dimensions in pdftex and luatex. For example > > \starttext > > 1ex = \the\dimexpr1ex\relax \crlf > 2.8ex = \the\dimexpr2.8ex\relax > > \stoptext > > gives in MKII > > 1ex = 5.16667pt > 2.8ex = 14.46669pt > > and in MKIV gives > > 1ex = 5.172pt > 2.8ex = 14.4816pt > > The reason is that what ex means is hardcoded in MKII but MKIV gets this > info from the font. For example, if I use palatino at 12pt, the result in > MKII does not change, but MKIV gives > > 1ex = 5.388pt > 2.8ex = 15.08641pt > > So, depending on the font, MKII and MKIV can have considerably different > lines per page. - for type 1, mkiv gets the info from the afm file and has some heuristics if it's not in there; in mkii it's set in the tfm and such values can depends on decisions made while making the tfm file - for otf again the info is taken from the font file in both cases, there is no longer the limitations imposed by the tfm format (like discrete number of ht/dp) and as such there can be differences between mkii and mkiv Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-11-05 14:29 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2008-11-04 20:06 MkII vs. MkIV Marcin Borkowski 2008-11-04 20:20 ` Aditya Mahajan 2008-11-04 20:41 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-11-04 20:59 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-11-04 21:06 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2008-11-04 21:51 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-11-04 22:02 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-11-04 22:18 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-11-05 3:00 ` Aditya Mahajan 2008-11-05 9:48 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-11-05 14:29 ` Hans Hagen
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