From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/47570 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Khaled Hosny Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Making necessary OpenType features on by default Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:02:58 +0200 Message-ID: <20090220210258.GC15066@khaled-laptop> References: <20090220183922.GA10583@khaled-laptop> <499EFD12.1080808@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1496027645==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235163902 12213 80.91.229.12 (20 Feb 2009 21:05:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:05:02 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Feb 20 22:06:16 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LacZR-0000Fi-0X for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; 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Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:03:08 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost ([41.237.37.90]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 2sm1470941qwi.28.2009.02.20.13.03.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:03:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=209.85.221.20; country=US; region=CA; city=Mountain View; postalcode=94043; latitude=37.4192; longitude=-122.0574; metrocode=807; areacode=650; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.4192,-122.0574&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 183141106 - 726b79474698 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.217 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:47570 Archived-At: --===============1496027645== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Y5rl02BVI9TCfPar" Content-Disposition: inline --Y5rl02BVI9TCfPar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:31:49PM -0700, Idris Samawi Hamid =D8=A7=D8=AF= =D8=B1=D9=8A=D8=B3 =D8=B3=D9=85=D8=A7=D9=88=D9=8A =D8=AD=D8=A7=D9=85=D8=AF = wrote: > On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:57:22 -0700, Hans Hagen wrote: > >> Khaled Hosny wrote: >> >>> Currently, when defining a font feature one has to enable all features >>> by hand which is IMHO not very user friendly as it implies prior >>> knowledge about OpenType font features and the meaning of each one, not >>> every Arabic user, for example, knows what does 'init', 'medi, etc. >>> ligatures mean yet to know that he must enable them to get proper font >>> rendering. I think some font features should be on by default, so that >>> \definefontfeature[script=3Darabic] should be enough to get an Arabic f= ont >>> rendered correctly with the default features as its designer intended >>> (designers assume that certain will be on while other are off by >>> default, like liga vs. dlig), and if some one wants to disable a certain >>> default feature he can turn it off, not the reverse. > > Hmm, not sure if this is a good idea, see below. > >>> Microsoft's OpenType features list page >>> (http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/features_ae.htm) gives a "UI >>> suggestion" for each feature noting if it should be on by default, I >>> think those are what most OpenType enable by default (at least the ones >>> I tested). > >> i've been thinking of a features=3Ddefault option (as there is already = =20 >> features=3Dyes|no) > > Maybe we can have a features=3Dms_arabic > > instead of defaulting to MS' recommendation. So in the final high-end=20 > user interface we can have keys like > > featureset=3Dms_arabic I think the 'ms' part is't really needed, we can just call it"arabic", or are we going to have more Arabic feature sets? > But I agree with Hans that this is a matter that needs more thought. For = =20 > example, Traditional Arabic mixes OpenType and older M$ specs in =20 > Uniscribe, so just plugging in the default features that M$ suggests is = =20 > not sufficient for, eg, vowel function in Tr Ar. That is beyond OpenType support, since Traditional Arabic is essentially broken at many levels, even when Uniscribe is used (vowel marks break lam-alef ligatures for example), Ms Arabic fonts are special case since they were developed long ago before OpenType and aren't the best examples. > Also, what about Arabic =20 > fonts on the mac, so they follow the same specs as M$? AFAIK, Microsoft's Uniscribe is the reference OpenType implementation, and I assume that Apple's OpenType implementation follows its recommendations (I can't test that). > > We've still got lots to do before settling on a very high-end interface= =20 > so there is time to think about this some more... Of course, we aren't in hurry. Regards, Khaled --=20 Khaled Hosny Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team --Y5rl02BVI9TCfPar Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmfGoIACgkQRoqITGOuyPLzrQCfcvC+Eo7/faitchO9bL5oYs+h aFkAnjDKA/E2JxL0TniBJAGLpDKd7KW8 =gkCs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Y5rl02BVI9TCfPar-- --===============1496027645== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1496027645==--