From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/49135 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Khaled Hosny Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Arabic protrosion Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:20:37 +0200 Message-ID: <20090406202037.GB6176@khaled-laptop> References: <20090406064012.GA3984@khaled-laptop> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1158974300==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1239049338 13877 80.91.229.12 (6 Apr 2009 20:22:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:22:18 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Apr 06 22:23:37 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LqvLt-0006IT-Ta for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:23:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310CD1FB3C; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:22:03 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 26219-02; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:21:13 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E3801FADB; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:21:13 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B401FADB for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:21:11 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 31526-03-5 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:20:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter2-ams.mf.surf.net (filter2-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.70]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 125001FA4C for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:20:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.180]) by filter2-ams.mf.surf.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n36KKjZ8030468 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:20:48 +0200 Original-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so1218780wah.2 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:20:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:date:from:to:subject :message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=yOtrRoCkKjHERQHfv7ft/nhD3KGP4Vne3W3C8VXOF+M=; b=qeqcMWXlwT9Ck09u0nZWd3xOCsBTz2vr7LGgKGVDg6HP1qEK7TuQGnjpZMJaSeDrkN 21UYg87vO8iNT3MJHQ0zo5WX2vsrts/wtdHcxL3/CCiZOOeEAYaccGGa/LhuOwHgvLLM h4jPYDrspReHVT1wMgeL9pEcKyPy9wjzC9aAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=Idq1OYkskfPWY319SAlGHgRFgVxV7VrqiHb1czIVIIIKRsM+73eajGW4KORzEe6kqy 9C4qOPJ4PmTIj5vhTWI1fvm00n8Etr5h9JHiyk0ft2LVTOoZJO2v0NTrvzFgvNBO0rPC o1YuALeNDe9HE6k9vUOTBoFZxcjFaRFq7joWE= Original-Received: by 10.115.33.1 with SMTP id l1mr2477801waj.168.1239049244504; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([41.237.41.159]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n22sm5477807pof.0.2009.04.06.13.20.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:20:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=209.85.146.180; country=US; region=CA; city=Mountain View; postalcode=94043; latitude=37.4192; longitude=-122.0574; metrocode=807; areacode=650; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.4192,-122.0574&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 204772099 - c50e96c38366 - 20090406 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.70 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:49135 Archived-At: --===============1158974300== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qcHopEYAB45HaUaB" Content-Disposition: inline --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 07:30:33AM -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid =D8=A7=D8=AF= =D8=B1=D9=8A=D8=B3 =D8=B3=D9=85=D8=A7=D9=88=D9=8A =D8=AD=D8=A7=D9=85=D8=AF = wrote: > On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:40:12 -0600, Khaled Hosny = =20 > wrote: > >> The attached patch adds Arabic coma, semicolon, full stop (used in Urdu) >> and question mark to font-ext.lua for protrusion. >> Now, combined with glyph expansion, I don't get any overfull boxes. > > Arabic-script microtypography is one of the cornerstones of the Oriental = =20 > TeX project. We've been studying this matter for some time now: > > Because of > > a) the normal wide spacing around Arabic punctuation, and > > b) the large size of Arabic punctuation relative to Latin, > > I'm not sure that protrusion of Arabic-script punctuation is a good idea.= =20 > It needs a lot of thought, and a lot of testing, before adding it to the = =20 > system. Indeed, more testing is needed, but since neither protrusion nor expansion is on by default, I think it is safe to have them now so we can do more testing and tune it later, when someone enables hz features, he should no enough to judge himself about the quality of the result and he can always turn it back off and will lose nothing. > As for glyph expansion, I don't see how that works at all with=20 > the current model, except perhaps with very horizontal fonts. But in that= =20 > case all that's needed is smart tatweel, not glyph expansion. For hq=20 > fonts the current glyph expansion model will mess up the contextual=20 > connections. I think the minimal font expansion, that we have, is very unlikely to be noticed by the reader, but I completely agree that great care should be taken, I've been reading some Arabic book few months ago and I'm pretty sure they used the font expansion feature of InDesign because it was very visible and annoying. > > Although one can certainly do things with the current model of protrusion= =20 > and hz, we need more, much more. Khaled, send me some tests off-list and = =20 > I'll examine them in light of the overall analysis as we prepare for =20 > adding Arabic microtypography support, hopefully pretty soon. I was preparing some test files, when I accidentally removed all files that I was working on recently, since I don't have a backup, it'll take some time. > =D8=B3=D9=84=D8=A7=D9=85 =D9=88=D8=B9=D9=84=D9=8A=D9=83=D9=85 =D8=A7=D9=84=D8=B3=D9=84=D8=A7=D9=85 Regards, Khaled --=20 Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknaZBUACgkQRoqITGOuyPIKEACfcJHpeEGNKNb5WXSJI/4wXys5 gKAAn3HTvsS1PJxURgtTqE4I3uM48wpm =ty0+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB-- --===============1158974300== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1158974300==--