docs

docs

[R. Bastian]

Hi,

I would write a french & german intro-source for (quasi absolute) newcomers
which need  to have a working system producing PDF texts. 

But I know nothing about ConTeXt. therefor I cant do anything without your help.
A first series of question:

-. For a newcommer, is Mk II the best choice ?

-. Is it necessary to know TeX ?

or Is ConTeXt (CTX) compatible with TeX ?

I wish to alternate french & german texts (so they can be translated in 
other languages). 

rb

""
Wanderer, kommst du nach LuaTeX,
dann hoff nicht zuviel, sonst hast du PeX
""" ;-)

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: docs

[luigi scarso]

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On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:01 PM, R. Bastian <rbastian@free.fr> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would write a french & german intro-source for (quasi absolute) newcomers
> which need  to have a working system producing PDF texts.
>
> But I know nothing about ConTeXt. therefor I cant do anything without your
> help.
> A first series of question:
>

read-and-answer-in-0seconds

>
> -. For a newcommer, is Mk II the best choice ?
>
yes

>
> -. Is it necessary to know TeX ?
>
yes

>
> or Is ConTeXt (CTX) compatible with TeX ?
>
yes


-- 
luigi

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___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: docs

[R. Bastian]

On Thu, 14 May 2009 14:45:20 +0200
Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> scribit:

> 2009/5/14 luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com>:
> >> I would write a french & german intro-source for (quasi absolute)
> >> newcomers
> >> which need  to have a working system producing PDF texts.
> >> But I know nothing about ConTeXt.
> 
> On the one hand it's a good idea to write an introduction / a tutorial
> for something you don't know, because you'll learn it that way.
> On the other hand it's a very bad idea to write about something you don't know.
> 
> On the third hand I'm just writing a German introduction for someone
> who will use ConTeXt MkIV for scripts of a private medical school.
> As soon as it's usable, I'll release it open source.
> 
> There are my old intro slides at
> http://www.fiee.net/texnique/?menu=0-1-1&lang=de - but they're from
> 2003 and thus heavily outdated.

Very fine. I will study the source. 

> 
> 
> Greetlings, Hraban
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: docs

[Diego Depaoli]

2009/5/14 R. Bastian <rbastian@free.fr>:
> I would write a french & german intro-source for (quasi absolute) newcomers
> which need  to have a working system producing PDF texts.
> But I know nothing about ConTeXt. therefor I cant do anything without your help.
> A first series of question:

> -. Is it necessary to know TeX ?
no, if you know Wolfgang :-D

Regards
-- 
Diego Depaoli
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Re: docs

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 14 May 2009, R. Bastian wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would write a french & german intro-source for (quasi absolute) newcomers
> which need  to have a working system producing PDF texts.
>
> But I know nothing about ConTeXt. therefor I cant do anything without your help.
> A first series of question:
>
> -. For a newcommer, is Mk II the best choice ?

Yes. But the only major difference (from the user's point of view) in MkII 
and MkIV is typescript definitions. Other commands are mostly same.

> -. Is it necessary to know TeX ?

For the most part no. You can use ConTeXt without knowing anything about 
catcodes, text encodings (always use unicode), \hbox and \vbox (use 
\framed etc), and \halign (use tables and mathalignments). You need to 
know a bit about font handling, but ConTeXt does that completely 
differently from TeX.

> or Is ConTeXt (CTX) compatible with TeX ?

It is compatible in the sense that a plain tex document will work in 
Context. You may not always get the same output as the defaults are 
different.

> I wish to alternate french & german texts (so they can be translated in
> other languages).

Also see 
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_on_Excursion%2C_translations

The wiki page is old and the svn repo is not accessible right now, but 
someone started translating it into french.

Aditya
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Re: docs

[R. Bastian]

On Thu, 14 May 2009 09:49:46 -0400 (EDT)
Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> scribit:

> On Thu, 14 May 2009, R. Bastian wrote:
> 
[...]
> 
> > I wish to alternate french & german texts (so they can be translated in
> > other languages).
> 
> Also see 
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_on_Excursion%2C_translations
> 
> The wiki page is old and the svn repo is not accessible right now, but 
> someone started translating it into french.

 Thanks, but I will write the source in the following manner:
--------------------
\german

Was meinst Du?

\bavarian

Woas moanst?

\french
Que veux-tu dire ?
------------------------
It is not necessaury to make texian acrobaties: 
the extraction can be done by a little Python-script

> 
> Aditya
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: docs

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 14.05.2009 um 17:12 schrieb R. Bastian:

> Thanks, but I will write the source in the following manner:
> --------------------
> \german
>
> Was meinst Du?
>
> \bavarian
>
> Woas moanst?
>
> \french
> Que veux-tu dire ?

When you want you complete document in one language you can write

\startmode[de]
Was meinst du?
\stopmode

\startmode[fr]
Que veux-tu dire ?
\stopmode

and call context with "context --modes=de filename" for the german  
version.

For a version with the text for two languages on facing pages you can  
use
your example code as it is with the streams module.

Wolfgang

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Re: docs

[Mari Voipio]

R. Bastian wrote:
> -. Is it necessary to know TeX ?

I assume it depends on what you are planning to do with ConTeXt. I've 
been using ConTeXt for at least five years now, but I've never touched 
TeX (nor LaTeX nor any others, just ConTeXt). I've got a vague idea what 
it is about and that's it.


Some points though:

- background in something else than WYSIWYG editing (What You See Is 
What You Get = Word, for example) helps a lot. Before I started with 
ConTeXt I'd already done my share of html and I've learned to do 
structured documents also in word processing (i.e. "mark it heading 1" 
instead of "make that big and black).

- I do ConTeXt pretty much with the "learn-as-you-go" philosophy and 
when I really have to learn something, I'm pretty determined; most of my 
ConTeXt usage is at work and if something needs to be done, it has to 
get done and I can't back off if it seems difficult first.
(It took me two days, lot of swearing and a few questions on this 
mailing list to achieve my first ConTeXt doc in Cyrillic, but I did it 
in the end. Now it is of course as easy as can be...)

- depends on the operationg system and user's backgrouns, too. Those 
who've used linux/mainframe are probably less likely to be upset by 
ConTeXt while your average Mac/Windows user may go crazy at the steep 
start of the learning curve; I'd done some unix and that definitely 
increased my tolerance.



There are days when I swear and yell and curse myself for going over 
from Word to ConTeXt. But on 9 days out of 10 I pat myself on the back 
for making the switch. Especially on those styles when MS Word defies 
all of my attempts to keep a document structurally styled...




That's my five cents,

Mari
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___________________________________________________________________________________

pdfTeX questions

[Peter Münster]

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Hello,
I have some questions concerning pdfTeX, the following example illustrates
the problems:

\setupoutput[pdftex]
\enableregime[il1]

\pdfinfo{ /Title (\"Ubung) /Author (Münster) } % neither \"U nor ü work

\pdfcatalog{ /PageMode /FullScreen } % this works well

\pdfdest num 1 fitbh % I would like to get the same result as in LaTeX with
                     % \hypersetup{pdfstartview={FitBH}}
\starttext

some text
\externalfigure[example][width=5cm]
some text, jpeg-figure is shifted down and to the left.
The file example.jpg is attached.

The versions:
pdfeTeX, Version 3.14159-1.10b-2.1 (Web2C 7.4.5)
ConTeXt  ver: 2004.3.16  fmt: 2004.5.18  int: english  mes: english

\stoptext

TIA for any help, Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
_____________________________________
FilmSearch engine: http://f-s.sf.net/

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Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

> \setupinteraction[title=Übung,Author=Münster]

Thanks, I missed those keys in the manual.
Ü is still not working, perhaps I should update to ConTeXt-2004.4.9 ?

It seems, that there is no key named "keywords" ?

> > \pdfdest num 1 fitbh % I would like to get the same result as in LaTeX with
> >                      % \hypersetup{pdfstartview={FitBH}}

> what does this do?

FitBH means, fit to width of bounding box. When reading text on the screen,
the combination of FullScreen and FitBH seems to me optimal.

When you create a pdf-file of the following LaTeX-source (with pdflatex),
you see all features, I'm looking for:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\hypersetup{pdfstartview=FitBH,pdfpagemode=FullScreen,
  pdfauthor={Peter Münster},pdftitle={A title},pdfsubject={The subject},
  pdfkeywords={some keywords}}
\begin{document}
\section{Section with ö, with bookmark}
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
\end{document}

BTW, how do you create bookmarks with ConTeXt?
I tried the following, but it did not work:

\setupoutput[pdftex]
\enableregime[il1]
\setupinteraction[state=start,menu=on]
\setupinteractionmenu[left][state=start]
\setupinteractionscreen[option=bookmark]
\starttext
\section{Section with ö}
some text
\stoptext

Cheers, Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
_____________________________________
FilmSearch engine: http://f-s.sf.net/

Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Hans Hagen]

At 14:53 31/05/2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote

>a quick test shows that
>/Author (M¸nster) is put in the pdf file, where the Character after
>the M is 0xfc. Dunno if this is right.

dunno either but it is supposed to be in the proper encoding (unicode or 
pdfdoc)

btw, using \pdf... primitives is a bad idea


> > It seems, that there is no key named "keywords" ?
>
>Hans?

it's 'keyword' (e.g. keyword={a,b,c})

for patrick (added to setupb/setupinteraction):

   \variable[\c!trefwoord][\c!text!][]

Hans  

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello Holger and everybody,


>> [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/

> Finde ich eine gute Idee! Was mir (neben der Hilfe auf auf der Liste für 
> neue Probleme) am meisten bringt, und ich bisher etwas vermisse, sind 
> Beispiel-Dokumente (genauer: deren Quellcode).
[missing example documents and sources]


What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know
that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code
included?

Patrick

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello Holger,

>> >> [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/

>> What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know
>> that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code
>> included?

> I was thinking of all kinds of day-to-day documents, like the letter
> template I mentioned. I could not find one according to DIN-standards, so I
> did some trial-and-error experiments and created my own. 

What were the difficulties you ran into?


> Arguments for a collection could be:
>
> 1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents
>    could spare others such time consuming trials.

a) it is impossible to have a comprehensive collection of documents.
There are too many faces ConTeXt has.

b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:

  1)   layout trickery
       macro hacking
       itemize weirdness
       crazy table fun

or

  2)   letters
       articles
       poems
       magazines/newspaper

Any other? Which one makes sense?

> 2) On the other hand, my template could for sure be further improved (beyond
>    the level, I am capable of), so by putting it on a WIKI, I may get hints
>    and feedback by others.

Yes, that would be a great thing. This is actually the reason why I
started this wiki (and texshow-web).

> What was your motivation for mentioning such a collection on the WIKI?

Every 4 months this question arises on this mailinglist. (Not really
true).


> Another advantage of the WIKI would be the following: I am often lost, when 
> I try to remember, where I found a certain hint/trick/technique I am 
> remembering. If there is a place where everyone can edit pages and include 
> hints or links to information, then there would be no need to create more 
> and more separate web sites about ConTeXt, because the content could be 
> placed in the WIKI, or it could at least be linked from there.

And (the best part!) there is a search field in the wiki. So if you
have important information there, get it in a few seconds.

But it is up to every user to add things to the wiki.

Patrick

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Matt Gushee]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2004 at 05:55:24PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

> > Arguments for a collection could be:
> >
> > 1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents
> >    could spare others such time consuming trials.
> 
> a) it is impossible to have a comprehensive collection of documents.
> There are too many faces ConTeXt has.
> 
> b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:

Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist
on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy. But what if you
classified documents on the basis of keywords, or key phrases? Then
visitors could either search based on those phrases or browse a keyword
index.

Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing
metadata.

And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials 
should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect
collection would be more helpful than none. And if people don't like
your collection, tell them to start their own. Isn't that what the Web
is all about?

-- 
Matt Gushee                 When a nation follows the Way,
Englewood, Colorado, USA    Horses bear manure through
mgushee@havenrock.com           its fields;
http://www.havenrock.com/   When a nation ignores the Way,
                            Horses bear soldiers through
                                its streets.
                                
                            --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.)

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi Matt,

>> b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:
>
> Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist
> on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy. 

Oh, I don't insist on anything; I just don't have clue how to start...

> But what if you classified documents on the basis of keywords, or
> key phrases? Then visitors could either search based on those
> phrases or browse a keyword index.
>
> Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing
> metadata.

As far as I can see, it doesn't. But putting keywords on the pages
could help.

> And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials 
> should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect
> collection would be more helpful than none. 

Probably true.

> And if people don't like your collection, tell them to start their
> own. Isn't that what the Web is all about?

Right. Easy to change everything. 


Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[jimarin]

Hi all,

the idea of the keywords is very nice...

in

http://wiki.tcl.tk

you can search for a specific page using the url

like in

http://wiki.tcl.tk/file

even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in:

http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu*

perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki...don´t know how tclers do
theirs, but I guess they use tcl and they more or less can give some
advice.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers,

Jose Ignacio

> Hi Matt,
>
>>> b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:
>>
>> Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist
>> on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy.
>
> Oh, I don't insist on anything; I just don't have clue how to start...
>
>> But what if you classified documents on the basis of keywords, or
>> key phrases? Then visitors could either search based on those
>> phrases or browse a keyword index.
>>
>> Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing
>> metadata.
>
> As far as I can see, it doesn't. But putting keywords on the pages
> could help.
>
>> And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials
>> should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect
>> collection would be more helpful than none.
>
> Probably true.
>
>> And if people don't like your collection, tell them to start their
>> own. Isn't that what the Web is all about?
>
> Right. Easy to change everything.
>
>
> Patrick
> --
> texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
> ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Maurice Diamantin]

Le 22 juin 04, à 19:13, jimarin@bayesinf.com a écrit :

> the idea of the keywords is very nice...
> in
>   http://wiki.tcl.tk
> you can search for a specific page using the url

yes! it's the best exemple I know about!
No need to define a strict hierchical structure.

Also, this could be the url for hight level FAQ
(this forum it not realy a hight level forum!)
- how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)
- which/where is the reference documentation
   (don't reply with some recursive answer!)
- how many euro poeple would pay for a reference
   ConTeXt book?

I know these questions has been answered somewhere,
and some days ago,
But I know that because I have followed this
mailing list for months.
But I'm not sure I'm able to find these without asking
to this list!

> like in
>
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/file
>
> even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in:
>
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu*
>
> perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki...don´t know how tclers do
> theirs, but I guess they use tcl and they more or less can give some
> advice.
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jose Ignacio

-- Maurice Diamantini   http://www.ensta.fr/~diam

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Tobias Burnus]

Hello,

Maurice Diamantin wrote:

> - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)

Well, ConTeXt is regarded as opensource. The last time I read the 
licence it looked pretty free. In how far do you think should ConTeXt 
become more "open source"? BSD licence without advertising clause? LGPL?
Note that teTeX comes with this licence statement by Thomas Esser 
("doc/context/base/LICENSE.teTeX"):

 "I have taken great care to ensure that teTeX is free
  software. When speaking about free software, I always refer
  to the definition of the Free Software Foundation, given as
  http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-sw.html.

  To my understanding, ConTeXt with the mreadme.pdf-license already
  classifies as free software (as defined by the FSF). To be 100% sure
  of this fact, I hereby make ConTeXt free software "by definition"
  by adding the following clause to ConTeXt's license:

  If ConTeXt is not free software by the license in mreadme.pdf, the
  following terms replace the licence for ConTeXt given in mreadme.pdf:
    This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
    it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
    the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
    (at your option) any later version.[...]"

> - which/where is the reference documentation
>   (don't reply with some recursive answer!)

Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated and 
incomplete. But I think the "ConTeXt - the manual" is rather good though 
incomplete.
*

> - how many euro poeple would pay for a reference
>   ConTeXt book?

You mean a printed version of the revised/enhanced "ConTeXt - a manual"?

Regards,

Tobias

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Maurice Diamantin]

Le 23 juin 04, à 10:51, Tobias Burnus a écrit :

> Maurice Diamantin wrote:
>
>> - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)
>
> Well, ConTeXt is regarded as opensource.

OK, probably I looked at this file too long ago.
I agree ConTeXt is now Open source.

But as Open Source, I also (by mistake) mean a SourceForge projet
from which:
- an **unique** starting URL.
- dated version would be available,
- current official documentation (I didn't mean 
"documentationsssssssssss")
- access (via links) to to any other information (pragma, wiki, ...)


>> - which/where is the reference documentation
>>   (don't reply with some recursive answer!)
>
> Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated 
> and incomplete.
> But I think the "ConTeXt - the manual" is rather good though 
> incomplete.
> *

Yes I agree that "ConTeXt - the manual" is **the** currently reference
manual.
As such, it should probably be a more or less maintained an uptodate
(but not as other said "uptodate" context documents :-) version.


>> - how many euro poeple would pay for a reference
>>   ConTeXt book?
>
> You mean a printed version of the revised/enhanced "ConTeXt - a 
> manual"?

Yes!

I know that it's a big work to maintain such a documentation,
and probably (?), even Hans should eat some food (and sleep)
from time to time!
So if this work could be sell as a "ConTeXt book".

I think it could make a great difference for peoples who hesitate
to switch from LaTeX to ConTeXt : no book available for now!

This book could be reedited perhaps every 2 years, and
updates (and perhaps the book itself ?) could be made available
on the web.

I agree there is much less ConText user than LaTeX user, but:

- this book whould be the only ConTeXt book available, so it should
   be easy to sell,

- the fact that there is a ConTeXt book should make ConTeXt
   more attractive (as for a SourceForge projet)

-- Maurice

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> But as Open Source, I also (by mistake) mean a SourceForge projet
> from which:
> - an **unique** starting URL.

www.pragma-ade.com

> - dated version would be available,

http://www.pragma-ade.com/download.htm

> - current official documentation (I didn't mean
>   "documentationsssssssssss")

Well, ConTeXt is too complicated to have all aspects in one book. 

> - access (via links) to to any other information (pragma, wiki, ...)

http://www.pragma-ade.com/links.htm

>>> - which/where is the reference documentation
>>>   (don't reply with some recursive answer!)
>>
>> Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated
>> and incomplete.
>> But I think the "ConTeXt - the manual" is rather good though
>> incomplete.

> Yes I agree that "ConTeXt - the manual" is **the** currently reference
> manual.
> As such, it should probably be a more or less maintained an uptodate
> (but not as other said "uptodate" context documents :-) version.

I agree with you there. The documentation should be updated a bit and
put togehter. The uptodate manuals should go into different manuals
and vanish, since they are not uptodate anymore (perhaps they are
uptodate, but the date is behind). 


[...]

Talking about a sourceforge project. I guess that Hans would still
keep his ConTeXt distribution private (at PRAGMA ADE [btw. what is
the correct way to write your company's name?]) and not care very
much about any other SF project (as long as it does not get into his
way), but would be very reluctant giving support for the different
project. Once an tool is necessary for your everyday work, it is a
bad thing to give it out of your control.

If you need a SF project, make one (actually, there is one as I have
been told). But keep in mind that you should follow the license
restrictions in mreadme.pdf *and* you have to do all by yourself,
since most people here (I guess) are happy the way it is now.


Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: SF project and docs (was: ConTeXt-Wiki)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 23.06.2004 um 17:09 schrieb Patrick Gundlach:
> Talking about a sourceforge project. I guess that Hans would still
> keep his ConTeXt distribution private (at PRAGMA ADE [btw. what is
> the correct way to write your company's name?]) and not care very
> much about any other SF project (as long as it does not get into his
> way), but would be very reluctant giving support for the different
> project. Once an tool is necessary for your everyday work, it is a
> bad thing to give it out of your control.

And don't forget all the problems of SF - slow, overcrowded servers etc.
It would be very unconvenient for Hans - and as we know he has enough 
work.

And, Maurice, remember: Is there any complete LaTeX manual?
No, there isn't - there are lots of books on different levels,
most of them keep errors or describe old or obsolete packages or
techniques.
And every package has its own docs that you should read - some
are books itself (e.g. komascript).

So there's a lot more in the "basic" ConTeXt manual than in most
LaTeX books! Sure, it could always be more & better...
I agree that the whole plethora of single docs isn't really
overviewable. But otherwise they're a nice demonstration of
ConTeXt's capabilities - and I guess Hans meant them to be.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Re: SF project and docs (was: ConTeXt-Wiki)

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 23 juin 04, à 18:59, Henning Hraban Ramm a écrit :


> And, Maurice, remember: Is there any complete LaTeX manual?
> No, there isn't - there are lots of books on different levels,
> most of them keep errors or describe old or obsolete packages or
> techniques.

Yes, there is some reference books
   LateX from Lamport
   A guide to Latex 2e
   ...
which all are **suffisant** to do complete scientific documents
- mathematiques (not mathxml, which has never be done for beeing 
written by hand!)
- biblio (m-bib)

The latex reference book is very small because it does't describe
any extension.
A ConTeXt reference book would be much like an uptodate
cont-eni.pdf manual. It would be comparable to the couple
"LaTeX Lamport + Latex Compagnon"


For me, some of the top documentations are :
    gettingStartWithContext
    LaTeXtoContext.pdf
    refcontextbook (alias cont-eni for the 8.3 system)
    metafun-s.pdf
    the m-bib  module and its doc
    the m-nath module and its doc
    up-004.p.pdf for table

But the reference cont-eni.pdf doesn't talk about math nor biblio.
Also there is several means to do tables, and it seams
that the two main context reference documents (gettingStart and
cont-eni.pdf) doesn't talk about the same table system.
Morever, neither of them talk about the last most supported
table system which seams to be enattab.pdf!!


> And every latex package has its own docs that you should read - some
> are books itself (e.g. komascript).
Doen't know about it, doen't need it, so I'm glab it is not in
the latex manuals :-)

> So there's a lot more in the "basic" ConTeXt manual than in most
> LaTeX books! Sure, it could always be more & better...
> I agree that the whole plethora of single docs isn't really
> overviewable. But otherwise they're a nice demonstration of
> ConTeXt's capabilities - and I guess Hans meant them to be.

It's a good thing that additive fonctionnalities, or full reference
of specialised features are not included in the standard manual,
I've never asked that the metafun book should be include in
the contextbook!

I think the simplest thing to do is a to make a lite introduction
documentation for use as a guide about which docs should be seen
as reference (which table to use, how to to biblio, ...)

Also, I think yet that a litly modified version of the
contextbook.pdf, by adding the new table, nath and biblio
module, should be sufficiant for most peoples.

A year ago, I thought that context could become the
real "latex3" project,
But now, I think that the context is missing for some
universities support (latex developpers, user documentation
for students, ...).
An uptodate documentation could help!

Cordialement,

-- Maurice

Re: docs

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 24.06.2004 um 16:13 schrieb Maurice Diamantini:
> A ConTeXt reference book would be much like an uptodate
> cont-eni.pdf manual. It would be comparable to the couple
> "LaTeX Lamport + Latex Compagnon"

Would be, should be, yes.

> But the reference cont-eni.pdf doesn't talk about math nor biblio.

Both are extensions from my point of view.

Even if math is "typical" for TeX, it's not typical for ConTeXt.

I think the typical university user is content with LaTeX.
ConTeXt is for those who like to design their own layout.

I seldom need any formula - TeX/ConTeXt is for me simply the
system of choice for big documents (books), presentations and
everything scriptable.
(For most of my work I use InDesign.)

> Also there is several means to do tables, and it seams
> that the two main context reference documents (gettingStart and
> cont-eni.pdf) doesn't talk about the same table system.
> Morever, neither of them talk about the last most supported
> table system which seams to be enattab.pdf!!

Yes, that's confusing.
I made an overview in my german docs, will transfer it to the Wiki soon.

>> And every latex package has its own docs that you should read - some
>> are books itself (e.g. komascript).
> Doen't know about it, doen't need it, so I'm glab it is not in
> the latex manuals :-)

The KOMA classes are an enhanced replacement for the standard LaTeX 
classes
my Markus Kohm. If you use LaTeX it's a pity if you don't know them!

> I think the simplest thing to do is a to make a lite introduction
> documentation for use as a guide about which docs should be seen
> as reference (which table to use, how to to biblio, ...)

Again, I don't think that bibliographies are basic.
But I'm no scientific user.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Re: docs

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:12:34 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> 
wrote:

> Again, I don't think that bibliographies are basic.
> But I'm no scientific user.

Actually, I think bibliographies are VERY basic. I edit an academic 
journal; each article has to have its own bib and m-bib can only be used 
once per document, and the (old) version I use has a few bugs (will try 
the latest version after some mission-critical stuff is out; I've 
(amateurishly) hacked the old version so that it at least does what I want 
for now).

But ConTeXt really needs a full-fledged bibliography solution as part of 
the basic package I think.

Question: in what context (no pun intended) do you use InDesign? Where is 
ConTeXt not so applicable?

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: docs

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 24.06.2004 um 21:34 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid:
> Question: in what context (no pun intended) do you use InDesign? Where 
> is ConTeXt not so applicable?

My main work (at home) is a bimonthly magazine ("unitarische blätter"
for german unitarian religious fellowship); I know Hans (and perhaps
some others) could do it with ConTeXt, but not me; I prefer to work
"visible" if I use a lot of pictures and a non-scriptable layout.

Further I use it as text processor for letters etc., but therefore
I ever wanted to make a ConTeXt environment.

At work (a daily newspaper) we use InDesign for all the ads - that is,
I work there as a programmer and sysadmin, so I don't really work with
InDesign but only test its PostScript code or PDFs. (Today I recognized
that it always writes OPI comments for TIFFs and never for EPS,
independent from your output options; further it can't separate duplex
EPS from PhotoShop, only DCS...)

Sorry for being OT.

At work I use ConTeXt for presentations (e.g. Acrobat tutorial) and
flowcharts. At home for books, my address book, my ConTeXt tutorial
and some small stuff.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Re: docs

[Taco Hoekwater]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:34:20 -0600
Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:

> Actually, I think bibliographies are VERY basic. I edit an academic 
> journal; each article has to have its own bib and m-bib can only be used 
> once per document, and the (old) version I use has a few bugs (will try 
> the latest version after some mission-critical stuff is out; I've 
> (amateurishly) hacked the old version so that it at least does what I want 
> for now).

Hello Idris,

If you tell me what you want from the bib package, chances are that it
will be added (if you don't, it won't be). 

Generally, without feature requests there will never be any new features,
and without bug reports bugs will never get fixed. So: if anybody has 
requests for the bib package, let me know.

Greetings, Taco

Re: docs

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:21:03 +0200, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> 
wrote:

> Hello Idris,
>
> If you tell me what you want from the bib package, chances are that it
> will be added (if you don't, it won't be).

Thnx, Taco, u r right of course; I am just waiting till I can test the 
latest version of m-bib before I submit a report (since u may have already 
fixed things). After I get some mission-critical stuff to the printer I'll 
be in a better position to do that.

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: docs

[William D. Neumann]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

> Even if math is "typical" for TeX, it's not typical for ConTeXt.
>
> I think the typical university user is content with LaTeX.
> ConTeXt is for those who like to design their own layout.

And that's, unfortunately, a poor view to take.  I would love to use
ConTeXt for more of my academic writing, as it makes a lot of tasks much
easier, not just layout and design.  Unfortunately, it's inability to play
like LaTeX when it comes to even such basic things as footnotes, means
that I have to constantly turn back to LaTeX whenever I need to write
something for work or school.

> Again, I don't think that bibliographies are basic.
> But I'm no scientific user.

And for those of us who are, bibliographies are *crucial* and should be
considered a basic part of any tpesetting program that wants to be taken
seriously.  And while m-bib is usually sufficient, it too has enough
quirks that it's just not worth the time to even bother if you want to
submit a paper that has a special format requirement for the
bibliographies.

William D. Neumann

---

"Well I could be a genius, if I just put my mind to it.
And I...I could do anything, if only I could get 'round to it.
Oh we were brought up on the space-race, now they expect you to clean toilets.
When you've seen how big the world is, how can you make do with this?
If you want me, I'll be sleeping in - sleeping in throughout these glory days."

	-- Jarvis Cocker

Think of XML as Lisp for COBOL programmers.

	-- Tony-A (some guy on /.)

Re: docs

[Hans Hagen]

William D. Neumann wrote:

>And that's, unfortunately, a poor view to take.  I would love to use
>ConTeXt for more of my academic writing, as it makes a lot of tasks much
>easier, not just layout and design.  Unfortunately, it's inability to play
>like LaTeX when it comes to even such basic things as footnotes, mean
>
eh .. what's wrong with the footnotes?

Hans

Re: docs

[William D. Neumann]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:

> William D. Neumann wrote:
>
> >And that's, unfortunately, a poor view to take.  I would love to use
> >ConTeXt for more of my academic writing, as it makes a lot of tasks much
> >easier, not just layout and design.  Unfortunately, it's inability to play
> >like LaTeX when it comes to even such basic things as footnotes, mean
> >
> eh .. what's wrong with the footnotes?

Set a page in two column with footnotes set to span just the column where
the mark is placed (I forget the full commands to do this... I could look
them up, but you probably know what they are...).  Now, place a footnote.

In LaTeX, you get something that looks like:

text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text[1]   text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
------------------     text text text text
[1] footnote foot      text text text text
footnote footnote      text text text text
footnote footnote      text text text text



In ConTeXt you get something like:

text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text[1]   text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
------------------
[1] footnote foot
footnote footnote
footnote footnote

That is, the other column doesn't flow around the footnote in the other
column, wasting space and looking ugly.  I asked at least twice on this
list how to fix this and received no fixes.  If you have a fix, I would
be *very* pleased to hear about it...

William D. Neumann

---

"Well I could be a genius, if I just put my mind to it.
And I...I could do anything, if only I could get 'round to it.
Oh we were brought up on the space-race, now they expect you to clean toilets.
When you've seen how big the world is, how can you make do with this?
If you want me, I'll be sleeping in - sleeping in throughout these glory days."

	-- Jarvis Cocker

Think of XML as Lisp for COBOL programmers.

	-- Tony-A (some guy on /.)

Re: docs

[Hans Hagen]

William D. Neumann wrote:

> In LaTeX, you get something that looks like:
>
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text[1]   text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>------------------     text text text text
>[1] footnote foot      text text text text
>footnote footnote      text text text text
>footnote footnote      text text text text
>
>
>
>In ConTeXt you get something like:
>
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text[1]   text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>------------------
>[1] footnote foot
>footnote footnote
>footnote footnote
>
>That is, the other column doesn't flow around the footnote in the other
>column, wasting space and looking ugly.  I asked at least twice on this
>list how to fix this and received no fixes.  If you have a fix, I would
>be *very* pleased to hear about it...
>  
>
there is \setupfootnotes[location=columns] but i just found out that 
that is broken (i have to adapt that to the new multiple footnotes 
mechanism); will do that

btw, in that case footnotes are placed in the last column  (the reason 
why footnotes by default end up on the page is that there can be mixed 
multi-single column usage

Hans

Re: docs

[Hans Hagen]

William D. Neumann wrote:

>That is, the other column doesn't flow around the footnote in the other
>column, wasting space and looking ugly.  I asked at least twice on this
>list how to fix this and received no fixes.  If you have a fix, I would
>be *very* pleased to hear about it...
>  
>
i uploaded a new beta, which has column footnotes corrected (i had forgotten to adapt the mechanism to the new multiple notes mechanism); 

a also added the option to put notes in the first column: 

\setupfootnotes[location=firstcolumn|lastcolumn] % columns == lastcolumn 

Hans 



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