From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/50768 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Reutenauer Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Seeking a Deeper ConTeXt: Questions for Initializing Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 19:23:58 +0200 Message-ID: <20090525172358.GA24988@phare.normalesup.org> References: <4c1f1f860905241017s40033f7crde553d358a24b57f@mail.gmail.com> <4c1f1f860905250930g2e44f973y335be816c2883981@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243272304 29756 80.91.229.12 (25 May 2009 17:25:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 17:25:04 +0000 (UTC) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon May 25 19:24:57 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M8duw-0001oD-Ad for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:24:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA79E1FDE5; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:24:53 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09969-02; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:24:13 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BA5B1FD5A; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:24:13 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6125B1FD5A for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:24:11 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09970-02 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:24:01 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter2-ams.mf.surf.net (filter2-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.70]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0751FD4E for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:24:01 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from nef2.ens.fr (nef2.ens.fr [129.199.96.40]) by filter2-ams.mf.surf.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n4PHNxhg029057 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:23:59 +0200 Original-Received: from phare.normalesup.org (phare.normalesup.org [129.199.129.80]) by nef2.ens.fr (8.13.6/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id n4PHNwt5072288 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:23:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Envelope-To: Original-Received: by phare.normalesup.org (Postfix, from userid 1008) id 71968BC0BC; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:23:58 +0200 (CEST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4c1f1f860905250930g2e44f973y335be816c2883981@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.4 (nef2.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]); Mon, 25 May 2009 19:23:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=129.199.96.40; country=FR; region=A8; city=Paris; latitude=48.8667; longitude=2.3333; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=48.8667,2.3333&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 231429284 - 56bf6da45355 - 20090525 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.70 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:50768 Archived-At: > These paragraphs seems to contradict. ConTeXt is useful if you use an > environment more than once, but there are no ready-to-use ConTeXt > environments. You're probably confused by the term "environment". It means something very specific in ConTeXt, see for example section 2.3 of http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/cont-eni.pdf If by "environment" you mean some less down-to-earth, general document layout, e.g. for articles, books, presentation slides or letters, then yes, there are such ready-to-use layouts. Not always in the ConTeXt core, but they're there; for example, for letters you would use Wolfgang Schuster's letter module; for presentation, one of the solutions is Thomas Schmitz' and Aditya Mahajan's simple-presentation module, etc. > Yes, I meant RDF. XML is a very important format. I find it odd that TeX can > generate PDF but cannot output simple XML. Generating a document with a logical structure is really the opposite of what TeX does, at least in my view: in today's trend, you write a TeX document with a logical structure, and you generate PDF, a highly specialized format for describing the layout of a printed or on-screen page; it has rather few means of specifying logical structure (it's coming, but rather poorly supported by PDF producer applications at the moment). The same is of course even more true of DVI. Hence, what TeX does is to take a logically structured document, and to make it into a visually structured one. Note that I am not always convinced by the whole "separation of content and layout" creed which is heard very often as a selling point for LaTeX vs. MS Word etc., but there is some truth to it, and, generally speaking, you're still going from semantic markup to visual appearance, not the other way round. > So in order to have a semantical > document I must write it in XML and then process it with ConTeXt? Pretty much. ConTeXt is rather good at it. You have a lot of tools to process XML in the base code. There is also a module to deal with DocBook, but I think its development has stalled. > Is the > capacity there (through LuaTeX perhaps) to write an XML generator? The goal is that at some point, you will be able to redefine LuaTeX's backend, the same way you can act on the TeX engine at the moment. This will allow to control the output format entirely. > While I would expect the reasons for wanting XML output would be obvious If I may, your statement might be biased by your own expectations. There are thousand people out there who use some form of TeX without even knowing about XML. But I know why you want it. As far as LaTeX is concerned, there are quite a number of toolchains that produce XML from some sort of restricted LaTeX markup. I'm not aware of anything similar for ConTeXt. Arthur ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________