Where to put a module?

Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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Dear listmates,


a while ago I made some lua tables to aid myself in transliteration of
various scripts.  I thought this could be of general interest so I built
a module from it and threw in some source documentation and a tiny
manual, too.

Right now it contains modes for Cyrillic, Glagolitic and Greek scripts,
older variants included, full ISO 9 support, and two transcription modes
as well.  (There's a showcase of examples in the manual.)  It allows
global setups and local adjustments.

It splendidly works for me, but maybe somebody wants to review it before
I post it on the list, so whom should I send it to? 


Philipp

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.03.10 11:54, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
> Dear listmates,
>
> a while ago I made some lua tables to aid myself in transliteration of
> various scripts.  I thought this could be of general interest so I built
> a module from it and threw in some source documentation and a tiny
> manual, too.
>
> Right now it contains modes for Cyrillic, Glagolitic and Greek scripts,
> older variants included, full ISO 9 support, and two transcription modes
> as well.  (There's a showcase of examples in the manual.)  It allows
> global setups and local adjustments.
>
> It splendidly works for me, but maybe somebody wants to review it before
> I post it on the list, so whom should I send it to?
>    
There is nothing wrong to send it to the list or provide the files online,
this way more people can give comments to your module.

Wolfgang

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-03-07 <12:04:36>, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> There is nothing wrong to send it to the list or provide the files online,
> this way more people can give comments to your module.
Here you are.  I included a pdf of the manual as not everybody will have
the required fonts to build it.

Philipp


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Re: Where to put a module?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.03.10 12:46, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
> On 2010-03-07<12:04:36>, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>    
>> There is nothing wrong to send it to the list or provide the files online,
>> this way more people can give comments to your module.
>>      
> Here you are.  I included a pdf of the manual as not everybody will have
> the required fonts to build it.
>    
No files!

Wolfgang

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 11:54, Philipp Gesang wrote:
>
> Right now it contains modes for Cyrillic, Glagolitic and Greek scripts,
> older variants included, full ISO 9 support

Doesn't ISO 9 (ISO-8859-9) support already work?

Mojca
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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-03-07 <12:59:55>, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 07.03.10 12:46, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
> >On 2010-03-07<12:04:36>, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> >>There is nothing wrong to send it to the list or provide the files online,
> >>this way more people can give comments to your module.
> >Here you are.  I included a pdf of the manual as not everybody will have
> >the required fonts to build it.
> No files!

Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:48:13 +0100
From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl
To: pgesang@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
Subject: Your message to ntg-context awaits moderator approval

We'll have to wait a bit.

> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-03-07 <13:02:40>, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 11:54, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> >
> > Right now it contains modes for Cyrillic, Glagolitic and Greek scripts,
> > older variants included, full ISO 9 support
> 
> Doesn't ISO 9 (ISO-8859-9) support already work?
Normally I don't post wp links but as you'd have to pay for the
standard, here's an exception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9
No encoding issue involved here ...

Philipp

> 
> Mojca
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Taco Hoekwater]

Philipp Gesang wrote:
>>>> There is nothing wrong to send it to the list or provide the files online,
>>>> this way more people can give comments to your module.
>>> Here you are.  I included a pdf of the manual as not everybody will have
>>> the required fonts to build it.
>> No files!
> 
> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:48:13 +0100
> From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl
> To: pgesang@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
> Subject: Your message to ntg-context awaits moderator approval
> 
> We'll have to wait a bit.

A bit too large for the mailing list. I extracted and rezipped the
attachment, then uploaded to

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/images/4/42/Transliterator.zip

Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-03-07 <14:09:07>, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Philipp Gesang wrote:
> >>>>There is nothing wrong to send it to the list or provide the files online,
> >>>>this way more people can give comments to your module.
> >>>Here you are.  I included a pdf of the manual as not everybody will have
> >>>the required fonts to build it.
> >>No files!
> >
> >Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:48:13 +0100
> >From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl
> >To: pgesang@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
> >Subject: Your message to ntg-context awaits moderator approval
> >
> >We'll have to wait a bit.
> 
> A bit too large for the mailing list. I extracted and rezipped the
> attachment, then uploaded to
> 
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/images/4/42/Transliterator.zip
Sorry, my fault, I sent the repository as well …


Philipp


> Best wishes,
> Taco
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hi Philipp,

a few comments to your code (TeX only):

You don't need a MKIV-file and keep everything in the TeX-file,
what you can also do is to move the Lua-code in a separate file.

It's nice to see you provide a (XML) interface file.

Wouldn’t \setuptransliterate a better name for the setup command!

A better defintion for the setup command is:

\def\setupTranslit{\dodoubleargument\getparameters[TRL]}

You can also shorten your \dotransliterate macro a lot:

\def\dotransliterate[#1]#2%
{\bgroup
\iffirstargument
\getparameters[TRL][#1]%
\fi
\language[\TRLhyphenate]%
\ctxlua{translit.transliterate("\TRLmode","\luaescapestring{#2}")}%
\egroup}

You have a wrong entry in the modules metadata:

%D [ file=t-degrade,

Wolfgang

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Taco Hoekwater]

Philipp Gesang wrote:
> On 2010-03-07 <14:09:07>, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>> Philipp Gesang wrote:
>>>>>> There is nothing wrong to send it to the list or provide the files online,
>>>>>> this way more people can give comments to your module.
>>>>> Here you are.  I included a pdf of the manual as not everybody will have
>>>>> the required fonts to build it.
>>>> No files!
>>> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:48:13 +0100
>>> From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl
>>> To: pgesang@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
>>> Subject: Your message to ntg-context awaits moderator approval
>>>
>>> We'll have to wait a bit.
>> A bit too large for the mailing list. I extracted and rezipped the
>> attachment, then uploaded to
>>
>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/images/4/42/Transliterator.zip
> Sorry, my fault, I sent the repository as well …

No problem.

I don't know any cyrillic, but I had a quick look and
have a few remarks for you to consider (I weeded out the
comments already made by Wolfgang):

* \loadmarkfile takes braces, not brackets for the argument,
so you should use \loadmarkfile{t-transliterator}.

* You should create t-transliterator.mkii, even (especially) when it
does nothing except give a \message{Module is unsupported under mkii}
followed by \endinput.

* besides splitting into mkiv and lua, you may even want to create
separate files for each transliteration that is then loaded by
filename key. This would make it easier for other people to add
transliterations you did not implement yourself.

* I expect the substitutions themselves can be sped up a little with no
effort, by using the normal string.gsub. That function is 8bit clean, so
there is no need for the added complication of utf8 processing.

* It is common in ConTeXt to also provide a \starttransliteration
... \stoptransliteration pair (but there is no requirement).

* Finally, where should I get the CMU fonts from?

Best wishes,
Taco

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Where to put a module?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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Am 07.03.10 14:56, schrieb Taco Hoekwater:
> * Finally, where should I get the CMU fonts from?
http://canopus.iacp.dvo.ru/~panov/cm-unicode/ 
<http://canopus.iacp.dvo.ru/%7Epanov/cm-unicode/>

Wolfgang


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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-03-07 <14:40:37>, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Hi Philipp,
> 
> a few comments to your code (TeX only):
That's really nice.

> You don't need a MKIV-file and keep everything in the TeX-file,
> what you can also do is to move the Lua-code in a separate file.
I already considered this but have to make my mind up about it first.

> Wouldn’t \setuptransliterate a better name for the setup command!
That's true; done!
> 
> A better defintion for the setup command is:

> \def\setupTranslit{\dodoubleargument\getparameters[TRL]}
Done!

> You can also shorten your \dotransliterate macro a lot:
> 
> \def\dotransliterate[#1]#2%
> {\bgroup
> \iffirstargument
> \getparameters[TRL][#1]%
> \fi
> \language[\TRLhyphenate]%
> \ctxlua{translit.transliterate("\TRLmode","\luaescapestring{#2}")}%
> \egroup}
Done.  Seems I was a little too worried about not overwriting the
globals; I promise to never ever mistrust TeX's grouping again.

> You have a wrong entry in the modules metadata:
> 
> %D [ file=t-degrade,
Done!  As is plain to see, I just copy-n-pasted those parts initially.
Is there a clean template somewhere around?

Thanks a lot for your improvements!


Philipp

> Wolfgang
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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Hi Taco,


On 2010-03-07 <14:56:52>, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> I don't know any cyrillic, but I had a quick look and
> have a few remarks for you to consider (I weeded out the
> comments already made by Wolfgang):
> 
> * \loadmarkfile takes braces, not brackets for the argument,
> so you should use \loadmarkfile{t-transliterator}.
Done!

> * You should create t-transliterator.mkii, even (especially) when it
> does nothing except give a \message{Module is unsupported under mkii}
> followed by \endinput.
Done!

> * besides splitting into mkiv and lua, you may even want to create
> separate files for each transliteration that is then loaded by
> filename key. This would make it easier for other people to add
> transliterations you did not implement yourself.
As I already wrote in my reply to Wolfgang: eventually I'll do this but
I'm not yet sure how this will look like exactly.

> * I expect the substitutions themselves can be sped up a little with no
> effort, by using the normal string.gsub. That function is 8bit clean, so
> there is no need for the added complication of utf8 processing.
You're right again, I measured 33% shorter execution time in an extreme
case with string.gsub; done!

> * It is common in ConTeXt to also provide a \starttransliteration
> ... \stoptransliteration pair (but there is no requirement).
I noticed that and of course I would like to provide an environment but
until now I had no luck implementing it; I'm stuck at the following: 

\def\starttransliterate {%
  \bgroup\dostarttransliterate%
}

\def\stoptransliterate {%
  \egroup
  \transliterate{%
    \getbuffer[trl]%
  }%
}

\def\dostarttransliterate{%
  \dostartbuffer[trl][starttransliterate][stoptransliterate]%
}

and the buffer content isn't expanded before it is passed to lua; adding
\@EA at various places has no effect either.

> * Finally, where should I get the CMU fonts from?
Wolfgang already posted the link but CMU is buggy in some cases so to
compile the manuall you'll need this font, too:
http://kodeks.uni-bamberg.de/AKSL/Schrift/BukyVede.htm

I'll post a new revision of the module during the week 

Many thanks to you, too!


Philipp

> Best wishes,
> Taco
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.03.10 17:59, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
> * It is common in ConTeXt to also provide a \starttransliteration
>> ... \stoptransliteration pair (but there is no requirement).
>>
> I noticed that and of course I would like to provide an environment but
> until now I had no luck implementing it; I'm stuck at the following:
>
> \def\starttransliterate {%
>    \bgroup\dostarttransliterate%
> }
>
> \def\stoptransliterate {%
>    \egroup
>    \transliterate{%
>      \getbuffer[trl]%
>    }%
> }
>
> \def\dostarttransliterate{%
>    \dostartbuffer[trl][starttransliterate][stoptransliterate]%
> }
>
> and the buffer content isn't expanded before it is passed to lua; adding
> \@EA at various places has no effect either.

\def\starttransliterate
   {\bgroup
    \dosingleempty\dostarttransliterate}

\long\def\dostarttransliterate[#1]#2\stoptransliterate
   {\iffirstargument
      \setuptransliterate[#1]%
    \fi
    \translate[\TRLhyphenate]%
    \ctxlua{translit.transliterate("\TRLmode","\luaescapestring{#2}")}%
    \egroup}

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Where to put a module?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.03.10 17:59, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
> * It is common in ConTeXt to also provide a \starttransliteration
>> ... \stoptransliteration pair (but there is no requirement).
>>
> I noticed that and of course I would like to provide an environment but
> until now I had no luck implementing it; I'm stuck at the following:
>
> \def\starttransliterate {%
>    \bgroup\dostarttransliterate%
> }
>
> \def\stoptransliterate {%
>    \egroup
>    \transliterate{%
>      \getbuffer[trl]%
>    }%
> }
>
> \def\dostarttransliterate{%
>    \dostartbuffer[trl][starttransliterate][stoptransliterate]%
> }
>
> and the buffer content isn't expanded before it is passed to lua; adding
> \@EA at various places has no effect either.

\def\starttransliterate
   {\bgroup
    \dosingleempty\dostarttransliterate}

\long\def\dostarttransliterate[#1]#2\stoptransliterate
   {\iffirstargument
      \setuptransliterate[#1]%
    \fi
    \translate[\TRLhyphenate]%
    \ctxlua{translit.transliterate("\TRLmode","\luaescapestring{#2}")}%
    \egroup}

Wolfgang

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.03.10 17:43, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
> Is there a clean template somewhere around?
>    
No, I use also always one from my older files too.

What you should set are 'title', 'subtitle' and 'author'
because they are used when you generate a formated source.

<template>
%D \module
%D   [     file=<filename>, % e.g. t-xxx
%D      version=<module version>, % e.g. 20xx.xx.xx
%D        title=<module title>, % e.g. \CONTEXT\ User Module
%D     subtitle=<module subtitle>,
%D       author=<author>,
%D         date=<date>, % e.g. \currentdate
%D    copyright=<copyright>, % e.g. <author>
%D      license=<license>] % e.g. 'Public Domain' or 'GNU GPL 2.0'

\unprotect

% module code

\protect \endinput
</template>

Wolfgang

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-03-07 <18:12:56>, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 07.03.10 17:59, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
> \def\starttransliterate
>   {\bgroup
>    \dosingleempty\dostarttransliterate}
> 
> \long\def\dostarttransliterate[#1]#2\stoptransliterate
>   {\iffirstargument
>      \setuptransliterate[#1]%
>    \fi
>    \translate[\TRLhyphenate]%
“\translate” -- is this a typo?  I need to setup hyphenation.

>    \ctxlua{translit.transliterate("\TRLmode","\luaescapestring{#2}")}%
>    \egroup}
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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Re: Where to put a module?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.03.10 18:47, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
>>     \translate[\TRLhyphenate]%
>>      
> “\translate” -- is this a typo?  I need to setup hyphenation.
>    
Sorry, should be \language[\TRLhyphenate].

Wolfgang

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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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Wikified!

On 2010-03-07 <18:42:33>, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 07.03.10 17:43, schrieb Philipp Gesang:
> >Is there a clean template somewhere around?
> No, I use also always one from my older files too.
> 
> What you should set are 'title', 'subtitle' and 'author'
> because they are used when you generate a formated source.
> 
> <template>
> %D \module
> %D   [     file=<filename>, % e.g. t-xxx
> %D      version=<module version>, % e.g. 20xx.xx.xx
> %D        title=<module title>, % e.g. \CONTEXT\ User Module
> %D     subtitle=<module subtitle>,
> %D       author=<author>,
> %D         date=<date>, % e.g. \currentdate
> %D    copyright=<copyright>, % e.g. <author>
> %D      license=<license>] % e.g. 'Public Domain' or 'GNU GPL 2.0'
> 
> \unprotect
> 
> % module code
> 
> \protect \endinput
> </template>
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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Re: Where to put a module?

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Mar 7, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Philipp Gesang wrote:

> Dear listmates,
> 
> 
> a while ago I made some lua tables to aid myself in transliteration of
> various scripts.  I thought this could be of general interest so I built
> a module from it and threw in some source documentation and a tiny
> manual, too.
> 
> Right now it contains modes for Cyrillic, Glagolitic and Greek scripts,
> older variants included, full ISO 9 support, and two transcription modes
> as well.  (There's a showcase of examples in the manual.)  It allows
> global setups and local adjustments.
> 
> It splendidly works for me, but maybe somebody wants to review it before
> I post it on the list, so whom should I send it to? 

Just one thought on your transliterator: a couple of years ago, Hans set up something a bit similar for Greek. It is based on lpeg, though, not gsub and so should be somewhat faster. If you look at
context/tex/texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/mtx-babel.lua
you'll see what he did. In theory, this mechanism is general, and all sorts of transliteration schemes could be hooked into it. Might give you some ideas or not...

Thomas
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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-03-07 <20:07:16>, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> 
> On Mar 7, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> 
> Just one thought on your transliterator: a couple of years ago, Hans
> set up something a bit similar for Greek. It is based on lpeg, though,
> not gsub and so should be somewhat faster. If you look at
> context/tex/texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/mtx-babel.lua
> you'll see what he did. In theory, this mechanism is general, and all
> sorts of transliteration schemes could be hooked into it. Might give you
> some ideas or not...
I'm afraid lpegs, elegant though they are, would complicate the matter a
bit.  Try this:

\startluacode
  s1, s2, s3 = "abc", "äbz", "аbc"
  p1, p2, p3 = lpeg.P("a")  , lpeg.P("ä")  , lpeg.P("а")
  --                                                 ^ == u1072
  context(lpeg.match(p1, s1))   --> 2, correct
  context(lpeg.match(p2, s2))   --> 3, wrong
  context(lpeg.match(p3, s3))   --> 3, wrong
\stopluacode

You'll see that lpeg isn't unicode-aware.  On the other hand Roberto has
a snippet on his page[1] that gets the unicode number out of an utf-8
octet sequence (up to 4 bytes), though I don't hasten to go this way: it
would mean converting all the tables into integers, converting the
input into an array of ints, then do multi-char replacement (=integer
substitution) on this array and finally converting it back into sequence
of chars.  Not sure if transliteration of some single words is worth it.

Anyway, I'm glad you pointed me to the babel script as I hadn't noticed
it before.


Philipp


[1] http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/lpeg/lpeg.html#ex
> 
> Thomas
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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Re: Where to put a module?

[Philipp Gesang]

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Early shots often go wrong; I take that back; capturing 1 multibyte
character actually works if you know its utf length!  Just have to write
the parsers for the tables now.

Philipp

On 2010-03-08 <07:55:06>, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> On 2010-03-07 <20:07:16>, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> > 
> > On Mar 7, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> > 
> > Just one thought on your transliterator: a couple of years ago, Hans
> > set up something a bit similar for Greek. It is based on lpeg, though,
> > not gsub and so should be somewhat faster. If you look at
> > context/tex/texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/mtx-babel.lua
> > you'll see what he did. In theory, this mechanism is general, and all
> > sorts of transliteration schemes could be hooked into it. Might give you
> > some ideas or not...
> I'm afraid lpegs, elegant though they are, would complicate the matter a
> bit.  Try this:
> 
> \startluacode
>   s1, s2, s3 = "abc", "äbz", "аbc"
>   p1, p2, p3 = lpeg.P("a")  , lpeg.P("ä")  , lpeg.P("а")
>   --                                                 ^ == u1072
>   context(lpeg.match(p1, s1))   --> 2, correct
>   context(lpeg.match(p2, s2))   --> 3, wrong
>   context(lpeg.match(p3, s3))   --> 3, wrong
> \stopluacode
> 
> You'll see that lpeg isn't unicode-aware.  On the other hand Roberto has
> a snippet on his page[1] that gets the unicode number out of an utf-8
> octet sequence (up to 4 bytes), though I don't hasten to go this way: it
> would mean converting all the tables into integers, converting the
> input into an array of ints, then do multi-char replacement (=integer
> substitution) on this array and finally converting it back into sequence
> of chars.  Not sure if transliteration of some single words is worth it.
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad you pointed me to the babel script as I hadn't noticed
> it before.
> 
> 
> Philipp
> 
> 
> [1] http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/lpeg/lpeg.html#ex
> > 
> > Thomas
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> > 
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> > archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> > wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> 
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