Semantic data in ConTeXt?

Semantic data in ConTeXt?

[Matija Šuklje]

Hullo,

this is something that's been bothering me for quite a while:

Will ConTeXt support semantic meta-information?

A few examples:
* could ConTeXt automatically tag the PDF it creates e.g. via Nepomuk[1]?
* could the bibliography be enriched with RDF triples?
* by selecting an event or contact mentioned in a document made by ConTeXt, 
could you import that into your organiser or address book?
* if a document made by ConTeXt was put online, could meta-data inside it 
reveal the semantic meaning of its contents and creator for easier searching?
* ditto for local storage?

From my understanding this depends on whether PDF can have RDF included and/or 
whether ConTeXt could output to ODF.

Currently KOffice is leading the pace here with OOo just a bit behind it and 
AbiWord still needing to catch up. There's an interesting article[2] in Linux 
Magazine about how KOffice uses libferris to integrate RDF into ODF.

With semantic web and semantic desktop creeping up at a fast pace, it'd be a 
pity not to make use of it IMHO.


Cheers,
Matija
-.-.-
[1] http://nepomuk.kde.org/
[2] http://www.linux-magazine.com/w3/issue/116/020-022_rdf.pdf
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Re: Semantic data in ConTeXt?

[Hans Hagen]

On 25-7-2010 12:50, Matija Šuklje wrote:
> Hullo,
>
> this is something that's been bothering me for quite a while:
>
> Will ConTeXt support semantic meta-information?
>
> A few examples:
> * could ConTeXt automatically tag the PDF it creates e.g. via Nepomuk[1]?
> * could the bibliography be enriched with RDF triples?
> * by selecting an event or contact mentioned in a document made by ConTeXt,
> could you import that into your organiser or address book?
> * if a document made by ConTeXt was put online, could meta-data inside it
> reveal the semantic meaning of its contents and creator for easier searching?
> * ditto for local storage?
>
>  From my understanding this depends on whether PDF can have RDF included and/or
> whether ConTeXt could output to ODF.
>
> Currently KOffice is leading the pace here with OOo just a bit behind it and
> AbiWord still needing to catch up. There's an interesting article[2] in Linux
> Magazine about how KOffice uses libferris to integrate RDF into ODF.
>
> With semantic web and semantic desktop creeping up at a fast pace, it'd be a
> pity not to make use of it IMHO.

Could be a nice topic for context conference.

We have tagging but the pdf spec leave handling tags to the application 
(it uses it for spoken text for instance). Technically tagged content 
can have user attributes (read rdf) but it's of no use if there is no 
application that does something with it.

Hans

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Re: Semantic data in ConTeXt?

[Matija Šuklje]

Dne nedelja 25. julija 2010 ob 12:02:58 je Hans Hagen napisal(a):
> Could be a nice topic for context conference.

It would be, yes :]
 
> We have tagging but the pdf spec leave handling tags to the application
> (it uses it for spoken text for instance). Technically tagged content
> can have user attributes (read rdf) but it's of no use if there is no
> application that does something with it.

From a quick search on Wikipedia, I found out that PDF[1] indeed does support 
RDF[2] via XMP[3] embedded in the PDF file.

The problem here really does seem to be where ConTeXt comes into play.

I suppose it would be enough for ConTeXt if it would support embedding RDF via 
XMP into PDF.

How this semantic data would get to ConTeXt would get there should be a 
problem for the user and/or the editor (s)he uses.

* From the editor side, on the KDE SC[4] desktop I imagine getting Kile[5] to 
import RDF from NEPOMUK[6] and Akonadi[7] databases would be possible.

* Another possibility would be for ConTeXt to support importing RDF directly 
from iCal and vCard, FoaF[8], SIOC[9] etc.

...in both cases though I think it would be enough if ConTeXt could simply 
include or refer to an external XML file that includes the needed RDF data and 
generate a PDF from that. IMHO as a non/idiot coder on top of that additional 
modules could be written to e.g. automatically tag the PDF with NEPOMUK tags.

As far as the PDF end user side is concerned, I think we needn't worry. I've 
talked to some guys from the W3C and they are very much working in the 
direction of semantic data driving pretty much everything on the web and on 
the desktop. As already said, KDE is also very strong here and other big 
desktops (including MacOS and Windows) are trying to catch up as well. From 
what I gathered, both the semantic desktop side and the semantic web[10] seem 
to have a sure future and we should see widespread use in the next two years 
or so.


Cheers,
Matija
-.-.-
P.S. Is there a nicer wording then "(s)he" for referencing persona in unisex 
gender (other then "one")?
-.-.-
[1]	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF
[2]	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework
[3]	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform
[4]	http://kde.org
[5]	http://kile.sf.net
[6]	http://nepomuk.kde.org
[7]	http://pim.kde.org/akonadi
[8]	http://www.foaf-project.org
[9]	http://sioc-project.org
[10]	http://semanticweb.org and
	http://www.w3.org/standards/semanticweb/
-- 
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Re: Semantic data in ConTeXt?

[Martin Schröder]

2010/7/25 Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name>:
> P.S. Is there a nicer wording then "(s)he" for referencing persona in unisex
> gender (other then "one")?

You should get a copy of "The Joy of TeX: A Gourmet Guide to
Typesetting With the AMS-TeX Macro Package". :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Modern_English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun

Best
   Martin
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Re: Semantic data in ConTeXt?

[Martin Schröder]

2010/7/25 Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name>:
> From a quick search on Wikipedia, I found out that PDF[1] indeed does support
> RDF[2] via XMP[3] embedded in the PDF file.
>
> The problem here really does seem to be where ConTeXt comes into play.

There are at least two LaTeX packages for embedding XMP-data into PDF.
I'm surprised that ConTeXt doesn't offer that yet.

> ...in both cases though I think it would be enough if ConTeXt could simply
> include or refer to an external XML file that includes the needed RDF data and
> generate a PDF from that. IMHO as a non/idiot coder on top of that additional
> modules could be written to e.g. automatically tag the PDF with NEPOMUK tags.

Yes.

Best
   Martin
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Re: Semantic data in ConTeXt?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

  Am 25.07.10 23:41, schrieb Martin Schröder:
> 2010/7/25 Matija Šuklje<matija@suklje.name>:
>>  From a quick search on Wikipedia, I found out that PDF[1] indeed does support
>> RDF[2] via XMP[3] embedded in the PDF file.
>>
>> The problem here really does seem to be where ConTeXt comes into play.
>
> There are at least two LaTeX packages for embedding XMP-data into PDF.
> I'm surprised that ConTeXt doesn't offer that yet.

MkIV only: \setupinteraction[xmpfile=...]

Wolfgang

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Re: Semantic data in ConTeXt?

[Matija Šuklje]

Dne nedelja 25. julija 2010 ob 23:39:45 je Martin Schröder napisal(a):
> 2010/7/25 Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name>:
> > P.S. Is there a nicer wording then "(s)he" for referencing persona in
> > unisex gender (other then "one")?
> 
> You should get a copy of "The Joy of TeX: A Gourmet Guide to
> Typesetting With the AMS-TeX Macro Package". :-)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Modern_English
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun

Thanks. A quick glance already proved entertaining ;)


Cheers,
Matija
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Re: Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

[David Rogers]

* Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name> [2010-07-25 23:33]:

>-.-.-
>P.S. Is there a nicer wording then "(s)he" for referencing persona in unisex
>gender (other then "one")?


The correct unisex pronoun is "he". This whole question is an invented
problem where no real problem exists.

"They" is usually acceptable, even though it's technically incorrect.
Many teachers of English are against its use, but in "real life" nobody
cares.





-- 
David
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Re: Semantic data in ConTeXt?

[Hans Hagen]

On 25-7-2010 11:41, Martin Schröder wrote:
> 2010/7/25 Matija Šuklje<matija@suklje.name>:
>>  From a quick search on Wikipedia, I found out that PDF[1] indeed does support
>> RDF[2] via XMP[3] embedded in the PDF file.
>>
>> The problem here really does seem to be where ConTeXt comes into play.
>
> There are at least two LaTeX packages for embedding XMP-data into PDF.
> I'm surprised that ConTeXt doesn't offer that yet.

it does, but i got the impression that the question was about way more 
distributed rdf data i.e. more than that standard blob

Hans


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Re: Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

[Matija Šuklje]

Dne ponedeljek 26. julija 2010 ob 01:47:13 je David Rogers napisal(a):
> * Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name> [2010-07-25 23:33]:
> >-.-.-
> >P.S. Is there a nicer wording then "(s)he" for referencing persona in
> >unisex gender (other then "one")?
> 
> The correct unisex pronoun is "he". This whole question is an invented
> problem where no real problem exists.

Thanks for explaining. This unisex and other politically correct stuff is 
always a bit odd.


Cheers,
Matija
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www: http://matija.suklje.name
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Re: Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

[John Haltiwanger]

Whether it is useless/'no problem exists' is not up to you to decide:
it is up to those who do find it important. As long as some people
find it important, no childish dismissals will remove that importance.

It seems the most successful/widely adopted form is to vary from 'he'
to 'she' (so that in one sentence you use one, in the next another).
Some authors even change the gender within a sentence. This method was
adopted because 'one' (the "real" correct unisex pronoun) is just too
awkward for extended use. The morphographic he/she/he/she method reads
surprisingly well.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name> wrote:
> Dne ponedeljek 26. julija 2010 ob 01:47:13 je David Rogers napisal(a):
>> * Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name> [2010-07-25 23:33]:
>> >-.-.-
>> >P.S. Is there a nicer wording then "(s)he" for referencing persona in
>> >unisex gender (other then "one")?
>>
>> The correct unisex pronoun is "he". This whole question is an invented
>> problem where no real problem exists.
>
> Thanks for explaining. This unisex and other politically correct stuff is
> always a bit odd.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Matija
> --
> gsm: +386 41 849 552
> www: http://matija.suklje.name
> xmpp: matija.suklje@gabbler.org
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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Re: Grammar

[Hans Hagen]

On 26-7-2010 11:48, John Haltiwanger wrote:

> It seems the most successful/widely adopted form is to vary from 'he'
> to 'she' (so that in one sentence you use one, in the next another).
> Some authors even change the gender within a sentence. This method was
> adopted because 'one' (the "real" correct unisex pronoun) is just too
> awkward for extended use. The morphographic he/she/he/she method reads
> surprisingly well.

maybe male authors could use he and female authors could use she 
consistently (or we could get accustomed to 'it')

Hans

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Re: Grammar

[luigi scarso]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 26-7-2010 11:48, John Haltiwanger wrote:
>
>> It seems the most successful/widely adopted form is to vary from 'he'
>> to 'she' (so that in one sentence you use one, in the next another).
>> Some authors even change the gender within a sentence. This method was
>> adopted because 'one' (the "real" correct unisex pronoun) is just too
>> awkward for extended use. The morphographic he/she/he/she method reads
>> surprisingly well.
>
> maybe male authors could use he and female authors could use she
> consistently (or we could get accustomed to 'it')

I try  to use "one" and "we" .

-- 
luigi
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Re: Grammar

[Matija Šuklje]

Dne ponedeljek 26. julija 2010 ob 12:20:14 je luigi scarso napisal(a):
> I try  to use "one" and "we" .

I used to use "one" as well, but after a while it starts looking weird. for 
now I settled for "(s)he", but I wondered if there's a nice widely adopted 
option like the Swiss use "*Innen":
e.g. "StudentInnen" means "Studenten und Studentinnen"



Cheers,
Matija
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Re: Grammar

[Hans Hagen]

On 26-7-2010 1:56, Matija Šuklje wrote:
> Dne ponedeljek 26. julija 2010 ob 12:20:14 je luigi scarso napisal(a):
>> I try  to use "one" and "we" .
>
> I used to use "one" as well, but after a while it starts looking weird. for
> now I settled for "(s)he", but I wondered if there's a nice widely adopted
> option like the Swiss use "*Innen":
> e.g. "StudentInnen" means "Studenten und Studentinnen"

Don Knuth at the Q&A session at Oxford 1999 (reprinted in TeX's 2^5 
anniversary):

"And I also go through every paper and put it into the form in which I 
would like it to be remembered. So if a paper was was written in the 70s 
and I used sexist pronouns, I change that; I try to rework it so that 
instead of saying 'he did it', I'll say 'they did it' or something. Also 
I change 'which' to 'that' a lot. It's an American thing."


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Re: Grammar

[Martin Schröder]

2010/7/26 Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name>:
> I used to use "one" as well, but after a while it starts looking weird. for
> now I settled for "(s)he", but I wondered if there's a nice widely adopted
> option like the Swiss use "*Innen":
> e.g. "StudentInnen" means "Studenten und Studentinnen"

Please not the "erigiertes Binnen-I" :-)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binnen-I

Best
   Martin
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Re: Grammar

[Matija Šuklje]

Dne ponedeljek 26. julija 2010 ob 21:33:44 je Martin Schröder napisal(a):
> Please not the "erigiertes Binnen-I" :-)
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binnen-I

I kinda like that :]

Dne ponedeljek 26. julija 2010 ob 18:23:57 je Richard Stephens napisal(a):
> The trend that I have noticed (and which trips off the tongue most easily
> for British english-speakers) is to use the plural 'they' in place of the
> singular pronoun 'he' or 'she'. This avoids having to choose! For purists,
> it rankles, but then we have to accept that the language will change.
> Personally, for serious writing, I use the rather cumbersome, but
> grammatically correct, 'he or she'. I personally don't like 'he/she'. The
> use of 'one' as a pronoun in British english is pretty much dead and sounds
> very stilted to us - only the Queen and old school masters still use it!
> Using 'it' is not an option.

"They" sounds like a pretty good compromise. I'll try it out when I next write 
an article.


Cheers,
Matija
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Re: Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Monday 26 July 2010 01:47:13 David Rogers wrote:
> * Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name> [2010-07-25 23:33]:
> >-.-.-
> >P.S. Is there a nicer wording then "(s)he" for referencing persona in
> >unisex gender (other then "one")?
> 
> The correct unisex pronoun is "he". This whole question is an invented
> problem where no real problem exists.
> 
> "They" is usually acceptable, even though it's technically incorrect.
> Many teachers of English are against its use, but in "real life" nobody
> cares.

He sells sea shells by the sea shore?

Alan
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Re: Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

[Rory Molinari]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:48 AM, John Haltiwanger
<john.haltiwanger@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whether it is useless/'no problem exists' is not up to you to decide:
> it is up to those who do find it important. As long as some people
> find it important, no childish dismissals will remove that importance.
>
> It seems the most successful/widely adopted form is to vary from 'he'
> to 'she' (so that in one sentence you use one, in the next another).
> Some authors even change the gender within a sentence. This method was
> adopted because 'one' (the "real" correct unisex pronoun) is just too
> awkward for extended use. The morphographic he/she/he/she method reads
> surprisingly well.

I would find a switch like that weird and disconcerting, as if the
text were "unmoored" in some sense.

I usually flip a coin to choose between "he" and "she" before I start
a document, and stick with it.  (If I think the issue might be of
interest to the reader I add a footnote explaining this.)

I very much dislike the singular "they", though its use goes back centuries.

Cheers,
Rory

>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name> wrote:
>> Dne ponedeljek 26. julija 2010 ob 01:47:13 je David Rogers napisal(a):
>>> * Matija Šuklje <matija@suklje.name> [2010-07-25 23:33]:
>>> >-.-.-
>>> >P.S. Is there a nicer wording then "(s)he" for referencing persona in
>>> >unisex gender (other then "one")?
>>>
>>> The correct unisex pronoun is "he". This whole question is an invented
>>> problem where no real problem exists.
>>
>> Thanks for explaining. This unisex and other politically correct stuff is
>> always a bit odd.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Matija
>> --
>> gsm: +386 41 849 552
>> www: http://matija.suklje.name
>> xmpp: matija.suklje@gabbler.org
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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>>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 09:53:18AM -0700, Rory Molinari napisał(a):
> I usually flip a coin to choose between "he" and "she" before I start
> a document, and stick with it.  (If I think the issue might be of
> interest to the reader I add a footnote explaining this.)

I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the "female" side more
often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)

Regards

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
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Re: Grammar

[Hans Hagen]

On 28-7-2010 1:12, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 09:53:18AM -0700, Rory Molinari napisał(a):
>> I usually flip a coin to choose between "he" and "she" before I start
>> a document, and stick with it.  (If I think the issue might be of
>> interest to the reader I add a footnote explaining this.)
>
> I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
> will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the "female" side more
> often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)

as normally one can swap he/she without problems, we can make a module 
for that ..

% Of course one can now wonder if \heshe or \shehe should be defined first.

\getrandomcount\scratchcounter{0}{10}

\ifnum\scratchcounter<5
     \enablemode[gender:male]
     \edef\heshe {he}
     \edef\HeShe {He}
     \edef\hisher{His}
\else
     \enablemode[gender:female]
     \edef\heshe {she}
     \edef\HeShe {She}
     \edef\hisher{Her}
\fi

\let\shehe \heshe
\let\SheHe \HeShe
\let\herhis\hisher

\starttext

I wonder if \heshe\ likes reading this article.

\stoptext

(looks like i need to move some initialization code as the seed is set 
at starttext time which is too late)


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Re: Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

[Rory Molinari]

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Marcin Borkowski
<mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
> will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the "female" side more
> often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)

I doubt I will ever write enough documents for my coin to be subjected
to a statistically rigorous test of fairness!

Cheers,
Rory
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Re: Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 05:18:55PM -0700, Rory Molinari napisał(a):
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Marcin Borkowski
> <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> > I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
> > will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the "female" side more
> > often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)
> 
> I doubt I will ever write enough documents for my coin to be subjected
> to a statistically rigorous test of fairness!

Agree, but try to explain that to a fanatic feminist!

> Cheers,
> Rory

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
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Re: Grammar

[John Haltiwanger]

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 28-7-2010 1:12, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>
>> Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 09:53:18AM -0700, Rory Molinari napisa&#322;(a):
>>>
>>> I usually flip a coin to choose between "he" and "she" before I start
>>> a document, and stick with it.  (If I think the issue might be of
>>> interest to the reader I add a footnote explaining this.)
>>
>> I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
>> will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the "female" side more
>> often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)
>
> as normally one can swap he/she without problems, we can make a module for
> that ..
>
> % Of course one can now wonder if \heshe or \shehe should be defined first.
>
> \getrandomcount\scratchcounter{0}{10}
>
> \ifnum\scratchcounter<5
>    \enablemode[gender:male]
>    \edef\heshe {he}
>    \edef\HeShe {He}
>    \edef\hisher{His}
> \else
>    \enablemode[gender:female]
>    \edef\heshe {she}
>    \edef\HeShe {She}
>    \edef\hisher{Her}
> \fi
>
> \let\shehe \heshe
> \let\SheHe \HeShe
> \let\herhis\hisher
>
> \starttext
>
> I wonder if \heshe\ likes reading this article.
>
> \stoptext
>
> (looks like i need to move some initialization code as the seed is set at
> starttext time which is too late)


This is really cool :)
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