From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/60424 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Rogers Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Grammar Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:10:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20100727141003.GA8370@linux> References: <20100727084715.GD26009@atos.labs.wmid.amu.edu.pl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280239820 20185 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2010 14:10:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:10:20 +0000 (UTC) To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Jul 27 16:10:18 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OdkrJ-0004X3-Ke for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:10:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50DF7C9CEE; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:10:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id rF02NWB-JaRG; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:10:14 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA94C9B21; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:10:14 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376BBC9B21 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:10:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id bAFsyrtsorar for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:10:10 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f41.google.com (mail-fx0-f41.google.com [209.85.161.41]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2535C9A63 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:10:10 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by fxm20 with SMTP id 20so743651fxm.14 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:10:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=h7LTlCTvfHT/+ZZydh6dhkTTV2N60c31/CHbKiy93hw=; b=GfZhbxZ4jI8s23lOykneU1+Mt/CL6HZMq5rNygp7kVSW56ra6w9yfYTfQj0Q8DdO6Z yQo63GOkq1fSi/oZk3ftEU9I4hnX4+TXqojeZVsc+/qbXwXrPtd9LRkv/E342fb+84z2 wnC4etb6wkm43sE2ItSbxFNp4prk8YkQphJZU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=AOkLVfX5gghWtj2r7jMjsV07Gk/YyB/+Np2+U+ul7apCQEVbxy/cXLF5ktLkzA8lBk PF1IhQjsmQ0zmmmVieATowpR8bxuLJALE13ArsTD9xt773E0r33dBpLcu9SZoR8/iv3S CpAtUMOfcPCb5tiFouFqhGJ/U+TA5kqGVH5bU= Original-Received: by 10.223.104.145 with SMTP id p17mr8152683fao.34.1280239810084; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from linux (d207-6-171-178.bchsia.telus.net [207.6.171.178]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q17sm1917755faa.45.2010.07.27.07.10.07 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-04-22) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:60424 Archived-At: * John Haltiwanger [2010-07-27 13:06]: >'Political correctness' can be onerous, and often contradictory to my >anti-authoritarian nature, but in the end it is not "the Man" who >issues requests for language changes so much as the marginalized >groups that take issue with existing phrasing. Afroamericans, for >instance, was deprecated sometime around that year 1984.. It all boils >down to whether you care about what the people concerned are saying, >which is why I note the author's position when I encounter it. (Rather >than throwing their paper away, ala Khaled). > >This is always a contentious issue when software/coder types are >involved, one of the serious reasons why female participation in IT >(in general) and FLoSS (in particular) are so low: many men in these >circles will not, or can not, give room to critical complaints. The >problem always originates in the person complaining---they need to be >less serious, no one around here cares so stfu, etc. This is a serious >issue, and this is probably one of the least contentious starting >points for encountering it. That theory would be thrown away because >it attempts to consciously address real gender inequalities is a >depressing thought. > >I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a >Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender >pronoun. Then, anyone reading can insert he/she or another option to >their own taste. That's an interesting idea, and in a way gets neatly around some of the clumsiness of he/she and other constructions. One of the difficulties with ALL the alternative ways of writing pronouns, including new proposals, is that the mere use of any of them places the writer into a sort of self-constructed ghetto. There is no way around that that I can see, other than the hope that all other writers adopt the same alternative way and turn it into the standard. In the mean time, alternative constructions will continue to call attention to the writer's personal and political views, for both good and ill; as long as the writer's audience includes people who remember standard English, any new pronouns (or old ones used in different ways) become not just pronouns but part of the writer's message. In academic writing especially, it's necessary to weigh the effect of this distraction before using anything other than standard constructions. Sometimes this kind of focus on the writer's personality and politics may be welcome, or even necessary; but in some situations it is not. -- Thanks David ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________