From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/60442 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Grammar Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:37 +0200 Message-ID: <20100727231037.GH26009@atos.labs.wmid.amu.edu.pl> References: <20100727084715.GD26009@atos.labs.wmid.amu.edu.pl> <201007271727.11975.matija@suklje.name> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280272253 7848 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2010 23:10:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:10:53 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed Jul 28 01:10:49 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OdtIL-0001jK-G1 for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B95C9D3C; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id E21g9oj0G1vN; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:44 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733E0C9D3D; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57DD0C9D3D for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id oRRGo7eF9cEf for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:37 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl (atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl [150.254.78.2]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0C92C9D3A for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:37 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1471013A11 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new (PLD-Linux) at wmid.amu.edu.pl Original-Received: from atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id maroLBlAfXIR for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:37 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl (Postfix, from userid 3884) id 54B411013A0D; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:10:37 +0200 (CEST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201007271727.11975.matija@suklje.name> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:60442 Archived-At: Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 05:27:11PM +0200, Matija =A9uklje napisał(a): > With the so called Roma people, the problem is even bigger, since to my = > knowledge Roma are just one of the tribes. So by having to call _all_ gyp= sies = > Roma, you are effectively putting one tribe in front of the others and de= nying = > the existence of the others. We have the same issue in Polish. Until now I didn't know that the "Romowie" vs "Cyganie" (in Polish) has also this kind of problem. This particular example is even more interesting because of a few Polish words, originating from the word "Cyganie", like "cyganeria" (which means roughly "a group of artists, living (usually together) in a leisurely way"), or "ocygani=E6", which means "to cheat" (this one is rather old-fashioned"). I guess that maybe we (and groups like Gypsies) have just to live with that - even if we try to eliminate such words, another ones will emerge. For instance: I think that "gay" was first introduced by the LGBT lobby as a "positive" term, which now (at least in Polish) is beginning to be derogatory. Here, this works in exactly the opposite direction: it is not the language which shapes our thinking, but our attitudes which shape our language. In the "Gypsy case", instead of introducing a new word (Romowie), I would rather try to discourage using "ocygani=E6" in the sense of "cheating". BTW, I know of at least two derogatory terms concerning my nation: "Polak" (which is exactly what a Polish man is called in Polish) is considered rude in the US, and "polnische Wirtchaft" is very derogatory in German. I have to admit that I am not extremely happy because of these terms, but it's not a real problem for me. Regards -- = Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift. ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________