simplefonts or Typecripts

simplefonts or Typecripts

[Gour D.]

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Hello!

I'd like to (finally) dive into ConTeXt (MkIV) using it for everything
and stop using LyX/LaTeX...ConText is installed via
context-minimals-git package on Archlinux (thank you Aditya).

The 'Using fonts' section on wiki says:

Handling fonts in LuaTeX can be done

    * in a simple but limited way, using the simplefonts module;
    * in the standard way, using TypeScripts 

and I've tried example with Delicious font (too bad there is no
Croatian characters available) and it works.

Considering I never learnt TypeScripts mechanism (and managed to
forget most of ConteXr I knew when fiddling with it some years ago), I
wonder if 'simplefonts' is THE way to go with fonts in MkIV and/or is
there something one may miss by not using TypeScripts mechanism?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG: CDBF17CA

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Re: simplefonts or Typecripts

[Hans Hagen]

On 13-8-2010 1:03, Gour D. wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I'd like to (finally) dive into ConTeXt (MkIV) using it for everything
> and stop using LyX/LaTeX...ConText is installed via
> context-minimals-git package on Archlinux (thank you Aditya).
>
> The 'Using fonts' section on wiki says:
>
> Handling fonts in LuaTeX can be done
>
>      * in a simple but limited way, using the simplefonts module;
>      * in the standard way, using TypeScripts
>
> and I've tried example with Delicious font (too bad there is no
> Croatian characters available) and it works.
>
> Considering I never learnt TypeScripts mechanism (and managed to
> forget most of ConteXr I knew when fiddling with it some years ago), I
> wonder if 'simplefonts' is THE way to go with fonts in MkIV and/or is
> there something one may miss by not using TypeScripts mechanism?

it depends ... simplefonts uses some heuristics and therefore can make 
it easier but not all fonts fit into a systematic approach

for a long time project making a few typescripts (just use those defined 
at the end of type-otf.mkiv as template) and using file: is more robust 
esp as it will nicely fail when something fundamental has changed (names 
or so)

Hans

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Re: simplefonts or Typecripts

[Gour D.]

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On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:58:55 +0200
>>>>>> "Hans" == Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

Hans> it depends ... simplefonts uses some heuristics and therefore can
Hans> make it easier but not all fonts fit into a systematic approach

I see.

Hans> for a long time project making a few typescripts (just use those
Hans> defined at the end of type-otf.mkiv as template) and using file:
Hans> is more robust esp as it will nicely fail when something
Hans> fundamental has changed (names or so)

Thanks for the hint.

By inspecting type-otf.mkiv from texlive & context-minimals, I see
that the latter is almost 4x bigger - probably it includes most of the
interesting free fonts available.

For now, it can be enough considering that atm we'll mostly write
markdown/reST and convert to ConTeXt via pandoc, but later we'll go
into final production and then there will be another question
relevant - whether there are some affordable commercial quality
fonts which could enhance the free collection and which cover extended
Unicode range (we need to use Sanskrit diacritics that were created via
TeX accent mechanism when we worked in old LaTeX).


Sincerely,
Gour

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Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG: CDBF17CA

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Re: simplefonts or Typecripts

[Gour D.]

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On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:58:55 +0200
>>>>>> "Hans" == Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:  

Hans> it depends ... simplefonts uses some heuristics and therefore can
Hans> make it easier but not all fonts fit into a systematic approach  

I see.

Hans> for a long time project making a few typescripts (just use those
Hans> defined at the end of type-otf.mkiv as template) and using file:
Hans> is more robust esp as it will nicely fail when something
Hans> fundamental has changed (names or so)  

Thanks for the hint.

By inspecting type-otf.mkiv from texlive & context-minimals, I see
that the latter is almost 4x bigger - probably it includes most of the
interesting free fonts available.

For now, it can be enough considering that atm we'll mostly write
markdown/reST and convert to ConTeXt via pandoc, but later we'll go
into final production and then there will be another question
relevant - whether there are some affordable commercial quality
fonts which could enhance the free collection and which cover extended
Unicode range (we need to use Sanskrit diacritics that were created via
TeX accent mechanism when we worked in old LaTeX).


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG: CDBF17CA

-- 
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Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG: CDBF17CA

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Re: other markup to ConTeXt (was: simplefonts or Typecripts)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2010-08-13 um 21:11 schrieb Gour D.:
>
> For now, it can be enough considering that atm we'll mostly write
> markdown/reST and convert to ConTeXt via pandoc, but later we'll go
> into final production...

Sounds interesting. What's your workflow? Do you use a special editor  
(WYSIWYM?) for your markup?

For a new project I'm planning to use some simple markup (probably  
ReST) with a Web CMS to create HTML and ConTeXt -> PDF.
(I won't need math.)

Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: other markup to ConTeXt (was: simplefonts or Typecripts)

[John Haltiwanger]

This is very similar to a project in which I am planning to engage in
the near future. Output to both HTML and PDF utilizing a simple markup
seems to be a "killer feature" that at least some of us are looking
for. Cross-media publishing, however, is never painless. It's like a
Holy Grail.

Pandoc makes me want to either learn Haskell or implement my own
markup with a focus towards multiple output formats and typesetting in
general (most markups seem to be focused on developer workflows).

Anyway, a fruitful space for ConTeXt, thanks to its strive for configurability.

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> wrote:
> Am 2010-08-13 um 21:11 schrieb Gour D.:
>>
>> For now, it can be enough considering that atm we'll mostly write
>> markdown/reST and convert to ConTeXt via pandoc, but later we'll go
>> into final production...
>
> Sounds interesting. What's your workflow? Do you use a special editor
> (WYSIWYM?) for your markup?
>
> For a new project I'm planning to use some simple markup (probably ReST)
> with a Web CMS to create HTML and ConTeXt -> PDF.
> (I won't need math.)
>
> Greetlings from Lake Constance!
> Hraban
> ---
> http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net
> https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: other markup to ConTeXt

[Gour D.]

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On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 22:35:04 +0200
>>>>>> "Henning" == Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> wrote:

Henning> Sounds interesting. What's your workflow? Do you use a special
Henning> editor (WYSIWYM?) for your markup?

Writing markdown/reST in Emacs which has nice modes for both markup
formats. (There is even pandoc-mode.). Then I plan to use Sphinx to
generate nice html and qthelp files.

Finally, for the high-quality output, we plan to convert to ConTeXt
(via pandoc since there is no ConTeXt writer for sphinx/docutils) for
high-quality PDF output (if rst2pdf won't be satisfying or if we would
like to provide paper putput.

Henning> For a new project I'm planning to use some simple markup
Henning> (probably ReST) with a Web CMS to create HTML and ConTeXt ->
Henning> PDF. (I won't need math.)

I don't need math as well. ;)


Sincerely,
Gour

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Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG: CDBF17CA

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Re: other markup to ConTeXt

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-08-14 <07:19:17>, Gour D. wrote:
> Finally, for the high-quality output, we plan to convert to ConTeXt
> (via pandoc since there is no ConTeXt writer for sphinx/docutils) for
> high-quality PDF output (if rst2pdf won't be satisfying or if we would
> like to provide paper putput.

Hi Gour, Hraban, John, and the list,

did you consider directly processing reST or similar markdown with
context using lua? Certainly it has advantages to have a converter output
context (backslash style) code and being able to finalize it. But
implementing some .rst processing directly in context shouldn't be that
hard (and with luatex you could handle the html output as well). 

Has somebody already made some steps in that way?  (I'm thinking about
doing so for quite some time now but then, it's not that pressing
either.)

Philipp


> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________


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Re: other markup to ConTeXt

[John Haltiwanger]

This was exactly what I was wondering last night:

How hard would it be to just write the converter into LuaTeX? Does
LuaTeX's position as a moving target affect this at all?

As you suggest Phillip, it might not be so difficult. It certainly
sounds like a worthwhile project. Seeming as how there is an obvious
spread of interest, perhaps we can start working on something
collaboratively.

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Philipp Gesang
<pgesang@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
> On 2010-08-14 <07:19:17>, Gour D. wrote:
>> Finally, for the high-quality output, we plan to convert to ConTeXt
>> (via pandoc since there is no ConTeXt writer for sphinx/docutils) for
>> high-quality PDF output (if rst2pdf won't be satisfying or if we would
>> like to provide paper putput.
>
> Hi Gour, Hraban, John, and the list,
>
> did you consider directly processing reST or similar markdown with
> context using lua? Certainly it has advantages to have a converter output
> context (backslash style) code and being able to finalize it. But
> implementing some .rst processing directly in context shouldn't be that
> hard (and with luatex you could handle the html output as well).
>
> Has somebody already made some steps in that way?  (I'm thinking about
> doing so for quite some time now but then, it's not that pressing
> either.)
>
> Philipp
>
>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> --
> ()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
> /\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: other markup to ConTeXt

[Khaled Hosny]

There is a lua markdown converter:
http://github.com/jgm/lunamark
It can output html and latex, I don't think it would be hard to make it
output context and integrate it in some way.

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 09:31:06AM +0000, John Haltiwanger wrote:
> This was exactly what I was wondering last night:
> 
> How hard would it be to just write the converter into LuaTeX? Does
> LuaTeX's position as a moving target affect this at all?
> 
> As you suggest Phillip, it might not be so difficult. It certainly
> sounds like a worthwhile project. Seeming as how there is an obvious
> spread of interest, perhaps we can start working on something
> collaboratively.
> 
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Philipp Gesang
> <pgesang@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
> > On 2010-08-14 <07:19:17>, Gour D. wrote:
> >> Finally, for the high-quality output, we plan to convert to ConTeXt
> >> (via pandoc since there is no ConTeXt writer for sphinx/docutils) for
> >> high-quality PDF output (if rst2pdf won't be satisfying or if we would
> >> like to provide paper putput.
> >
> > Hi Gour, Hraban, John, and the list,
> >
> > did you consider directly processing reST or similar markdown with
> > context using lua? Certainly it has advantages to have a converter output
> > context (backslash style) code and being able to finalize it. But
> > implementing some .rst processing directly in context shouldn't be that
> > hard (and with luatex you could handle the html output as well).
> >
> > Has somebody already made some steps in that way?  (I'm thinking about
> > doing so for quite some time now but then, it's not that pressing
> > either.)
> >
> > Philipp
> >
> >
> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> >>
> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> >> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> >> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> >> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
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> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> > wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
 Free font developer
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Re: other markup to ConTeXt

[Hans Hagen]

On 14-8-2010 11:23, Philipp Gesang wrote:

> Has somebody already made some steps in that way?  (I'm thinking about
> doing so for quite some time now but then, it's not that pressing
> either.)

is there a precise spec?

(I'm still looking for a few examples that I can use at the ctx 
conference.)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: other markup to ConTeXt

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-08-14 <11:52:12>, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 14-8-2010 11:23, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> 
> >Has somebody already made some steps in that way?  (I'm thinking about
> >doing so for quite some time now but then, it's not that pressing
> >either.)
> 
> is there a precise spec?

You mean something like this?:
http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#quick-syntax-overview

Hth, Philipp
 
> (I'm still looking for a few examples that I can use at the ctx
> conference.)
> 
> Hans
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: other markup to ConTeXt

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

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Am 2010-08-14 um 11:23 schrieb Philipp Gesang:

> did you consider directly processing reST or similar markdown with
> context using lua? Certainly it has advantages to have a converter  
> output
> context (backslash style) code and being able to finalize it. But
> implementing some .rst processing directly in context shouldn't be  
> that
> hard (and with luatex you could handle the html output as well).

I was planning on using Python docutils with changing its LaTeX  
converter for ConTeXt.

But of course direct LuaTeX parsing of "other markup" would be really  
nice.

Markdown, ReST, Creole - I don't really care, as far as there's a  
parser in Python, so that I can integrate it in my Django-based Web CMS.

None of their specs is really precise AFAIR, but I guess ConTeXt's  
standard markup commands are flexible enough.

Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)


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