MLA Bibliography

MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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Hey list,

I'd like to use an MLA style bibliography with MKIV. The style is
available here:

www.reed.edu/cis/help/latex/bibtexstyles.html

Actually, it doesn't matter to me whether it is that one or any that
supports MLA already that ships with ConTeXt.

In my environment file, I tried the following:

\setuppublications[alternative=mla]

That didn't appear to change anything, so I did what I normally do when
I don't trust the output of ConTeXt. I changed the "mla" to a garbage
string and it still compiled. So it must be either ignoring the style or
I am doing it wrong.

How can I use an MLA bibliography?

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Pontus Lurcock]

On Tue 10 Apr 2012, Kip Warner wrote:

> I'd like to use an MLA style bibliography with MKIV. The style is
> available here:
> 
> www.reed.edu/cis/help/latex/bibtexstyles.html
> 
> Actually, it doesn't matter to me whether it is that one or any that
> supports MLA already that ships with ConTeXt.

Unfortunately I don't think that either option is viable: ConTeXt
doesn't come with an MLA style as far as I know, and you can't just
drop in a BST because ConTeXt doesn't use BibTeX to typeset
bibliographies (it just uses it as a preprocessor to convert .bib
files into its own \startpublication ... \stoppublication format).

> In my environment file, I tried the following:
> 
> \setuppublications[alternative=mla]

The available styles are listed in bibmod-doc.pdf and you can also
find them in tex/texmf-context/tex/context/bib ; MLA isn't amongst
them.

> How can I use an MLA bibliography?

Unfortunately you'll probably have to define the style yourself using
\setupcite and \setuppublicationlayout -- see bibmod-doc.pdf for
details and the existing bibliography styles for guidance.

Hope this helps,

Pont
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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 19:57 +1200, Pontus Lurcock wrote:
> On Tue 10 Apr 2012, Kip Warner wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to use an MLA style bibliography with MKIV. The style is
> > available here:
> > 
> > www.reed.edu/cis/help/latex/bibtexstyles.html
> > 
> > Actually, it doesn't matter to me whether it is that one or any that
> > supports MLA already that ships with ConTeXt.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't think that either option is viable: ConTeXt
> doesn't come with an MLA style as far as I know, and you can't just
> drop in a BST because ConTeXt doesn't use BibTeX to typeset
> bibliographies (it just uses it as a preprocessor to convert .bib
> files into its own \startpublication ... \stoppublication format).

Indeed, that is unfortunate. I am a little surprised because I would
think that the people who use ConTeXt tend to be more from the sciences
than the humanities, and so I wouldn't have expected APA style as the
default. But surely someone must have found a way by now?

> The available styles are listed in bibmod-doc.pdf and you can also
> find them in tex/texmf-context/tex/context/bib ; MLA isn't amongst
> them.

Agreed. But when I change it to anything other than apa, even to
something allegedly supported, like num, I just see a [[error 2]]
typeset.

> Unfortunately you'll probably have to define the style yourself using
> \setupcite and \setuppublicationlayout -- see bibmod-doc.pdf for
> details and the existing bibliography styles for guidance.

I wonder if someone has already done that?

> Hope this helps,

Very. I'm glad to find someone who knows about the bibliography module,
since discussion and documentation seems to be scant. I have a few other
bibliography related questions that you or Hans might be able to answer:

(1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and
not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.
I'm thinking this is done with one of the setup commands, but not sure
how to do this. My *tex is fairly weak.


(2) I'd like to do the above, but also in some cases be able to specify
a specific page number or anecdote to add to the footnote.


(3) I'd like any entry in the BibTeX database that has a url to have the
title clickable such that the browser is invoked to that url. Which
brings me to the next question.


(4) Since my database is specified in the .bib format, what is the
preferred way of specifying a URL where there is one? I've seen a bunch
of different suggestions ranging from using the 'note' tag to wrapping
in a \def.


(5) Is there any way to dump a list of all the references, similar to
\placepublications command that just lists references that contain a
certain keyword or something? e.g. organized by a category?

Take care Pont,

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: MLA Bibliography

[Pontus Lurcock]

On Thu 12 Apr 2012, Kip Warner wrote:

> Indeed, that is unfortunate. I am a little surprised because I would
> think that the people who use ConTeXt tend to be more from the
> sciences than the humanities, and so I wouldn't have expected APA
> style as the default.

Most of the scientific journals I've seen use something fairly close
to APA style -- although it's worth noting that ConTeXt's ‘APA’
diverges from the official standard at various points.

> But surely someone must have found a way by now?

I had a quick google before writing my previous mail, but only turned
up
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100208.170849.f874f701.hu.html
, which implies that at least as of two years ago MLA bibliographies
were still an unsolved problem.

> Agreed. But when I change it to anything other than apa, even to
> something allegedly supported, like num, I just see a [[error 2]]
> typeset.

Sounds like a bug, but never having used the other styles I don't
really know.

> > Hope this helps,
> 
> Very. I'm glad to find someone who knows about the bibliography module,
> since discussion and documentation seems to be scant.

The aforementioned bibmod-doc.pdf file by Taco is the best
documentation I've found, though it's a little out of date. But it's
worth reading to get the idea of how ConTeXt interacts with BibTeX.

As you say, discussion is a little scant too. I'm a user with a fairly
limited understanding of the bibliography system, but I try to do what
I can with bibliography questions if nobody else is answering.

I'm afraid I don't have good answers to any of your questions, but as
to URLs I can at least tell you what I do:

> (3) I'd like any entry in the BibTeX database that has a url to have the
> title clickable such that the browser is invoked to that url. Which
> brings me to the next question.
> 
> (4) Since my database is specified in the .bib format, what is the
> preferred way of specifying a URL where there is one? I've seen a bunch
> of different suggestions ranging from using the 'note' tag to wrapping
> in a \def.

Here's a sample entry from my PhD bibliography:

% TODO is there a better way to cite a webpage?
@manual{acton2011zplotit,
  author = {Acton, Gary},
  title = {{ZPLOTIT} Software Users' Guide, version 2011-01},
  year = {2011},
  address =
  {\hyphenatedurl{http://paleomag.ucdavis.edu/software-Zplotit.html}},
  note = {Retrieved 1 February 2011}
}

... as the TODO shows, I don't consider this a perfect solution :-).
With APA style, this produces an acceptable-looking entry, although
semantically ‘address’ is probably the wrong key for the URL.
\hyphenatedurl allows the url to be split nicely, but doesn't make it
clickable; for that the tricks detailed at
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/url should work. I'd guess that
something like

  address = {\useURL[dummy][http://www.example.com]\from[dummy]}

should make a clickable bibliography URL.

Pont
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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2012-04-12 14:32, Kip Warner wrote:
> 
>                              I am a little surprised because I would
> think that the people who use ConTeXt tend to be more from the sciences
> than the humanities, and so I wouldn't have expected APA style as the
> default.

APA is used in the humanities‽

> (1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and
> not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.

You need to clarify two things here:

1 You want to map the “\cite” macro to something like
  “\footcite”? Have you tried something along the lines of this

    \let \goodoldcite \cite
    \unexpanded\def\cite#1{\footnote{\goodoldcite{#1}}}

  (untested)?

2 You want “\cite” to retrieve full citations? Assuming this
  requires that they contain the complete names of authors,
  editors and stuff, you might be out of luck. Last time I
  checked this was impossible to realize within the constraints
  of the bib module:
  http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100212.073108.f4699471.en.html

Hth. Anyways, you’re right, the native Context bib support is not
really fulfilling.

Philipp


> I'm thinking this is done with one of the setup commands, but not sure
> how to do this. My *tex is fairly weak.

> (2) I'd like to do the above, but also in some cases be able to specify
> a specific page number or anecdote to add to the footnote.
> 
> 
> (3) I'd like any entry in the BibTeX database that has a url to have the
> title clickable such that the browser is invoked to that url. Which
> brings me to the next question.
> 
> 
> (4) Since my database is specified in the .bib format, what is the
> preferred way of specifying a URL where there is one? I've seen a bunch
> of different suggestions ranging from using the 'note' tag to wrapping
> in a \def.
> 
> 
> (5) Is there any way to dump a list of all the references, similar to
> \placepublications command that just lists references that contain a
> certain keyword or something? e.g. organized by a category?
> 
> Take care Pont,
> 
> -- 
> Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
> OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
> http://www.thevertigo.com



> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________


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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 10:29 +1200, Pontus Lurcock wrote:
> I had a quick google before writing my previous mail, but only turned
> up
> http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100208.170849.f874f701.hu.html
> , which implies that at least as of two years ago MLA bibliographies
> were still an unsolved problem.

That's too bad.

> Sounds like a bug, but never having used the other styles I don't
> really know.

=(

> The aforementioned bibmod-doc.pdf file by Taco is the best
> documentation I've found, though it's a little out of date. But it's
> worth reading to get the idea of how ConTeXt interacts with BibTeX.

I've read it top to bottom several times now =(

> As you say, discussion is a little scant too. I'm a user with a fairly
> limited understanding of the bibliography system, but I try to do what
> I can with bibliography questions if nobody else is answering.

It's appreciated.

> Here's a sample entry from my PhD bibliography:
> 
> % TODO is there a better way to cite a webpage?
> @manual{acton2011zplotit,
>   author = {Acton, Gary},
>   title = {{ZPLOTIT} Software Users' Guide, version 2011-01},
>   year = {2011},
>   address =
>   {\hyphenatedurl{http://paleomag.ucdavis.edu/software-Zplotit.html}},
>   note = {Retrieved 1 February 2011}
> }
> 
> ... as the TODO shows, I don't consider this a perfect solution :-).
> With APA style, this produces an acceptable-looking entry, although
> semantically ‘address’ is probably the wrong key for the URL.

Perhaps, but you just gave me a great idea.

> \hyphenatedurl allows the url to be split nicely, but doesn't make it
> clickable; for that the tricks detailed at
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/url should work. I'd guess that
> something like
> 
>   address = {\useURL[dummy][http://www.example.com]\from[dummy]}
> 
> should make a clickable bibliography URL.

See I totally forgot that it's basically copying the values of the tags
directly into the bbl file which is already ConTeXt syntax, so all I
have to do is replace the value of the title tag with the url. Here is
what I did and it works marvellously:

@Misc{asymptotic_notation,
    author      = {Walker, Julienne},
    month       = {apr},
    publisher   = {Eternally Confuzzled},
    title       =
{\href{http://www.eternallyconfuzzled.com/arts/jsw_art_bigo.aspx}{Asymptotic Notation}},
    year        = {2012}
}

I've defined \href as such:

\def\href#1#2{\useURL[#2][{#2}][][{#1}]\goto{\url[#2]}[url(#1)]}

It works great and this is what I see:

"Walker, Julienne (2012a). Asympt% otic Notation. Eternally Confuzzled."

But why the "% " string gets inserted in there I do not know?

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 06:51 +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> > (1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and
> > not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.
> 
> You need to clarify two things here:
> 
> 1 You want to map the “\cite” macro to something like
>   “\footcite”? 

Either by mapping \cite, or by using some other macro, yes.

> Have you tried something along the lines of this
> 
>     \let \goodoldcite \cite
>     \unexpanded\def\cite#1{\footnote{\goodoldcite{#1}}}

Yes, it doesn't work though. All I see are footnotes that contain
"(Xxxxxxxxxx, 0000)". But maybe I am not using it properly. I just use
\cite[reference] and that is what I see.

> 2 You want “\cite” to retrieve full citations? Assuming this
>   requires that they contain the complete names of authors,
>   editors and stuff, you might be out of luck. Last time I
>   checked this was impossible to realize within the constraints
>   of the bib module:
>   http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100212.073108.f4699471.en.html

Ouch. So basically no footnote citations like in most of the books I
read. You'd think there would just be a \cite[everything] option?

> Hth. Anyways, you’re right, the native Context bib support is not
> really fulfilling.

=(

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: MLA Bibliography

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Hi Kip ...
I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants 
to have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which 
it can not produce the ConTeXt.
Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the 
bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none 
of the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many 
hours of experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a 
simple tool for typesetting bibliographies. But it is only a virtue of 
necessity and bibliography entries I we entered all on the line (ie, 
exactly how it should look in the list of bibliography), ie. I do that 
without specifying a style author = someone, title = foo, etc. That is 
to say that if you do not need to have the bibliography in the format in 
which we would expect from BibTeX, so I suggest to do it my way (I mean 
the format of bibliographic entries in text, sorting items, etc..) All 
of this can be done in Lua. In printed form, nobody will know that this 
is actually done "manually" without "BibTeX" ...
Originally I thought that I can not do, but eventually everything turned 
out well. It is true that the bibliographic citations in the work is not 
so much (about a hundred).

Good luck.
Jaroslav Hajtmar



Dne 14.4.2012 2:34, Kip Warner napsal(a):
> On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 06:51 +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
>    
>>> (1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and
>>> not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.
>>>        
>> You need to clarify two things here:
>>
>> 1 You want to map the “\cite” macro to something like
>>    “\footcite”?
>>      
> Either by mapping \cite, or by using some other macro, yes.
>
>    
>> Have you tried something along the lines of this
>>
>>      \let \goodoldcite \cite
>>      \unexpanded\def\cite#1{\footnote{\goodoldcite{#1}}}
>>      
> Yes, it doesn't work though. All I see are footnotes that contain
> "(Xxxxxxxxxx, 0000)". But maybe I am not using it properly. I just use
> \cite[reference] and that is what I see.
>
>    
>> 2 You want “\cite” to retrieve full citations? Assuming this
>>    requires that they contain the complete names of authors,
>>    editors and stuff, you might be out of luck. Last time I
>>    checked this was impossible to realize within the constraints
>>    of the bib module:
>>    http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100212.073108.f4699471.en.html
>>      
> Ouch. So basically no footnote citations like in most of the books I
> read. You'd think there would just be a \cite[everything] option?
>
>    
>> Hth. Anyways, you’re right, the native Context bib support is not
>> really fulfilling.
>>      
> =(
>
>    
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: MLA Bibliography

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 05:51, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Hi Kip ...
> I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants to
> have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which it can
> not produce the ConTeXt.
> Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the
> bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none of
> the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many hours of
> experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a simple tool for
> typesetting bibliographies.

It requires some time and tedious work, but if you know exactly what
you want, changing the layout should not be too difficult. Here are
some fragments of code that I'm using (I wanted DOI to be printed out,
that's why I changed the way how article is printed):

\setuppublicationlayout[article]{%
   \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{\insertthekey{}{. }{}}%
   \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}%
   \insertjournal{\bgroup \it}{\egroup}
    {\insertcrossref{In }{}{}}%
   \insertvolume
    {, }
    {\insertissue{(}{)}{}%
     \insertpages{:}{}{}%
     \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}
    {\insertpages{, pages }{}{}%
     \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}%
   \insertnote{ }{.}{}%
   \insertdoi{ doi:}{.}{}%
   \insertcomment{}{.}{}%
}

% new fields and bibliography types:

\newbibfield[conference]
\newbibfield[cobissid]

\setuppublicationlayout[conference]{%
  \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{}%
  \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}%
  \insertconference{\bgroup \it}{\egroup\insertday{, }{.
}{}\insertmonth{}{\ }{}\insertpubyear{}{}{}. }{}%
  \insertcobissid{[COBISS.SI-ID\ }{]}{}%
}

\setuppublicationlayout[webpage]{%
  \inserttitle{\bgroup\it }{\egroup. }{}%
  \inserturl{}{}{}%
}

Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: MLA Bibliography

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Thanks Mojca for comments.
I agree that the output format can be set as needed (a lots of time of 
experimentation). But I needed a special sort of bibliographic items 
(numbering according to their occurrence in the text) and that I have 
unfortunately failed. For average amateurs are code modifications beyond 
its capabilities.
I just want to say that ConTeXt is absolutely amazing tool, but 
sometimes  without professional advice the desired result is unattainable.
When time is pressed and help not comming, sometimes a lot can be 
stressful. However, to not complaint BUT it is the mere statement. This 
conference is above standard and willing to help to laity.

Jaroslav Hajtmar


Dne 15.4.2012 20:09, Mojca Miklavec napsal(a):
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 05:51, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
>    
>> Hi Kip ...
>> I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants to
>> have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which it can
>> not produce the ConTeXt.
>> Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the
>> bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none of
>> the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many hours of
>> experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a simple tool for
>> typesetting bibliographies.
>>      
> It requires some time and tedious work, but if you know exactly what
> you want, changing the layout should not be too difficult. Here are
> some fragments of code that I'm using (I wanted DOI to be printed out,
> that's why I changed the way how article is printed):
>
> \setuppublicationlayout[article]{%
>     \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{\insertthekey{}{. }{}}%
>     \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}%
>     \insertjournal{\bgroup \it}{\egroup}
>      {\insertcrossref{In }{}{}}%
>     \insertvolume
>      {, }
>      {\insertissue{(}{)}{}%
>       \insertpages{:}{}{}%
>       \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}
>      {\insertpages{, pages }{}{}%
>       \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}%
>     \insertnote{ }{.}{}%
>     \insertdoi{ doi:}{.}{}%
>     \insertcomment{}{.}{}%
> }
>
> % new fields and bibliography types:
>
> \newbibfield[conference]
> \newbibfield[cobissid]
>
> \setuppublicationlayout[conference]{%
>    \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{}%
>    \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}%
>    \insertconference{\bgroup \it}{\egroup\insertday{, }{.
> }{}\insertmonth{}{\ }{}\insertpubyear{}{}{}. }{}%
>    \insertcobissid{[COBISS.SI-ID\ }{]}{}%
> }
>
> \setuppublicationlayout[webpage]{%
>    \inserttitle{\bgroup\it }{\egroup. }{}%
>    \inserturl{}{}{}%
> }
>
> Mojca
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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>
>    

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Re: MLA Bibliography

[John Haltiwanger]

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On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar <hajtmar@gyza.cz> wrote:

> Thanks Mojca for comments.
> I agree that the output format can be set as needed (a lots of time of
> experimentation). But I needed a special sort of bibliographic items
> (numbering according to their occurrence in the text) and that I have
> unfortunately failed. For average amateurs are code modifications beyond
> its capabilities.
> I just want to say that ConTeXt is absolutely amazing tool, but sometimes
>  without professional advice the desired result is unattainable.
> When time is pressed and help not comming, sometimes a lot can be
> stressful. However, to not complaint BUT it is the mere statement. This
> conference is above standard and willing to help to laity.
>
>
FWIW, I decided to just hand-write all the (MLA-style) citations in my
masters thesis.

In case you are not too far into your writing, an option would be to use
pandoc which has CSL support. There are multiple MLA styles for CSL (
http://zotero.org/styles), though I have no idea if they are good for your
purpose. This would be the equivalent of pre-rendering your citations as
you translate from Markdown to Context. So by Context they should already
be plain-text and require little or no special handling (you might need to
add a command to make the bibliography at the end of 'overhanging').

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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 05:51 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Hi Kip ...
> I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants 
> to have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which 
> it can not produce the ConTeXt.

Hey Jaroslav. No surprise =(

> Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the 
> bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none 
> of the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many 
> hours of experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a 
> simple tool for typesetting bibliographies. But it is only a virtue of 
> necessity and bibliography entries I we entered all on the line (ie, 
> exactly how it should look in the list of bibliography), ie. I do that 
> without specifying a style author = someone, title = foo, etc. 

I'm very close to doing something similar. I wish the wiki had been more
clear that ConTeXt's bibliography module is not really ready for
professional use.

> That is 
> to say that if you do not need to have the bibliography in the format in 
> which we would expect from BibTeX, so I suggest to do it my way (I mean 
> the format of bibliographic entries in text, sorting items, etc..) All 
> of this can be done in Lua. In printed form, nobody will know that this 
> is actually done "manually" without "BibTeX" ...
> Originally I thought that I can not do, but eventually everything turned 
> out well. It is true that the bibliographic citations in the work is not 
> so much (about a hundred).

Thanks for your feedback Jaroslav. I'm sure you'll have a suggestion or
two after you see the mess I am having to deal with in the book I am
working on. =)

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
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http://www.thevertigo.com

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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Sun, 2012-04-15 at 20:09 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> It requires some time and tedious work, but if you know exactly what
> you want, changing the layout should not be too difficult. Here are
> some fragments of code that I'm using (I wanted DOI to be printed out,
> that's why I changed the way how article is printed):
> 
> \setuppublicationlayout[article]{%
>    \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{\insertthekey{}{. }{}}%
>    \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}%
>    \insertjournal{\bgroup \it}{\egroup}
>     {\insertcrossref{In }{}{}}%
>    \insertvolume
>     {, }
>     {\insertissue{(}{)}{}%
>      \insertpages{:}{}{}%
>      \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}
>     {\insertpages{, pages }{}{}%
>      \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}%
>    \insertnote{ }{.}{}%
>    \insertdoi{ doi:}{.}{}%
>    \insertcomment{}{.}{}%
> }
> 
> % new fields and bibliography types:
> 
> \newbibfield[conference]
> \newbibfield[cobissid]
> 
> \setuppublicationlayout[conference]{%
>   \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{}%
>   \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}%
>   \insertconference{\bgroup \it}{\egroup\insertday{, }{.
> }{}\insertmonth{}{\ }{}\insertpubyear{}{}{}. }{}%
>   \insertcobissid{[COBISS.SI-ID\ }{]}{}%
> }
> 
> \setuppublicationlayout[webpage]{%
>   \inserttitle{\bgroup\it }{\egroup. }{}%
>   \inserturl{}{}{}%
> }

This is great Mojca. If there is a url field in the bibliography
database present for a given entry, how would one have the title
interactive to the url? I struggled with that and eventually gave up
after a few hours of trying.

-- 
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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Mon, 2012-04-16 at 12:27 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> I agree that the output format can be set as needed (a lots of time of 
> experimentation). But I needed a special sort of bibliographic items 
> (numbering according to their occurrence in the text) and that I have 
> unfortunately failed. For average amateurs are code modifications beyond 
> its capabilities.

*nods*

> I just want to say that ConTeXt is absolutely amazing tool, but 
> sometimes  without professional advice the desired result is unattainable.
> When time is pressed and help not comming, sometimes a lot can be 
> stressful. 

*nods*

> However, to not complaint BUT it is the mere statement. This 
> conference is above standard and willing to help to laity.

*nods*

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: MLA Bibliography

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 01:47, Kip Warner wrote:
>
> If there is a url field in the bibliography
> database present for a given entry, how would one have the title
> interactive to the url?

I didn't try to answer your question directly, but the following
example comes from one of my documents (please don't ask me how I got
it working since I don't remember, but it was probably with Taco's
intervention and by cloning definitions of \insertbiburl). I turns a
number into well-defined URL and displays just the number with a link
to that URL.

\newbibfield[cobissid]

\unprotect
\def\bibinsertcobissid#1#2#3%
  {{\bibdoifelse{\@@pb@cobissid}%
      {\edef\ascii{\@EA\detokenize\@EA{\@@pb@cobissid}}%
       #1\expanded{\gotoCOBISS{\@@pb@thekey}{\ascii}}#2}{#3}}}
\protect

% http://www.cobiss.si/scripts/cobiss?command=DISPLAY&base=cobib&rid=1063780&lani=EN
% http://www.cobiss.si/scripts/cobiss?command=SEARCH&base=COBIB&select=BN=0521867444&lani=en
\def\gotoCOBISS#1#2%
  {\ifbibinteractionelse
    {\useURL[bibfoo#1][http://www.cobiss.si/scripts/cobiss?command=DISPLAY&base=cobib&rid=#2]%
     \goto{#2}[url(bibfoo#1)]}%
    {#2}}

and then my book layout uses
    \insertcobissid{ {\sc cobiss.si-id}: \bgroup}{\egroup.}{}%

followed by an example:

\startpublication
  [k=book:willock2009,
   t=book,
   a=Willock,
   y=2009,
   s=,
   u=]
  \title{Molecular symmetry}
  \author[]{David J}[D.~J.]{}{Willock}
  \pubyear{2009}
  \pubname{J. Wiley \& Sons}
  \city{Chichester}
  \isbn{978-0-470-85348-1}
  \cobissid{30303749}
\stoppublication

Maybe that (with explanation) deserves an entry on the wiki, but you
can have a nice exercise. If this doesn't help you, I'll take a look
tomorrow or day after tomorrow.

Mojca
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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Hello Kip.
If you're interested, then I send you my "simple" AMS sorted solution 
;-) - only for your inspiration your solution.
It's certainly not a step in the right direction, but rather an 
emergency solution that helped me achieve a result which was strictly 
required by supervisor of thesis.

Here is link to my files: 
http://public.hajtmar.com/?cesta=JRsVFQdsBhwIWyAdFwQROwZWEh0hHhAfEzETCRgNcRkQAA
(There is also a ZIP package) ..

with greetings
Jaroslav Hajtmar




Dne 17.4.2012 0:47, Kip Warner napsal(a):
> On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 05:51 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
>    
>> Hi Kip ...
>> I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants
>> to have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which
>> it can not produce the ConTeXt.
>>      
> Hey Jaroslav. No surprise =(
>
>    
>> Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the
>> bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none
>> of the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many
>> hours of experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a
>> simple tool for typesetting bibliographies. But it is only a virtue of
>> necessity and bibliography entries I we entered all on the line (ie,
>> exactly how it should look in the list of bibliography), ie. I do that
>> without specifying a style author = someone, title = foo, etc.
>>      
> I'm very close to doing something similar. I wish the wiki had been more
> clear that ConTeXt's bibliography module is not really ready for
> professional use.
>
>    
>> That is
>> to say that if you do not need to have the bibliography in the format in
>> which we would expect from BibTeX, so I suggest to do it my way (I mean
>> the format of bibliographic entries in text, sorting items, etc..) All
>> of this can be done in Lua. In printed form, nobody will know that this
>> is actually done "manually" without "BibTeX" ...
>> Originally I thought that I can not do, but eventually everything turned
>> out well. It is true that the bibliographic citations in the work is not
>> so much (about a hundred).
>>      
> Thanks for your feedback Jaroslav. I'm sure you'll have a suggestion or
> two after you see the mess I am having to deal with in the book I am
> working on. =)
>
>    

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 02:52 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Hello Kip.
> If you're interested, then I send you my "simple" AMS sorted solution 
> ;-) - only for your inspiration your solution.
> It's certainly not a step in the right direction, but rather an 
> emergency solution that helped me achieve a result which was strictly 
> required by supervisor of thesis.
> 
> Here is link to my files: 
> http://public.hajtmar.com/?cesta=JRsVFQdsBhwIWyAdFwQROwZWEh0hHhAfEzETCRgNcRkQAA
> (There is also a ZIP package) ..
> 
> with greetings
> Jaroslav Hajtmar

Thanks a lot Jaroslav. I'll take a look at it.

-- 
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http://www.thevertigo.com

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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 02:12 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> Maybe that (with explanation) deserves an entry on the wiki, but you
> can have a nice exercise. If this doesn't help you, I'll take a look
> tomorrow or day after tomorrow. 

Thanks a lot Mojca. Although I'm not confident in my ConTeXt'ing to
adapt that for URL use, it's definitely pleasing to know that it is
probably possible to do.

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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 02:52 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Hello Kip.
> If you're interested, then I send you my "simple" AMS sorted solution 
> ;-) - only for your inspiration your solution.
> It's certainly not a step in the right direction, but rather an 
> emergency solution that helped me achieve a result which was strictly 
> required by supervisor of thesis.
> 
> Here is link to my files: 
> http://public.hajtmar.com/?cesta=JRsVFQdsBhwIWyAdFwQROwZWEh0hHhAfEzETCRgNcRkQAA
> (There is also a ZIP package) ..
> 
> with greetings
> Jaroslav Hajtmar

Wow Jaroslav, that looks pretty complex. It does work, but my main issue
right now isn't so much with sorting as it is just getting citations to
typeset properly. I do thank you for providing the zip though. These are
the issues I am having lately:

Using \cite[data][<key>] depicts a full citation which is what I'd like,
but I just need it as a footnote. There is probably a way to do this by
having \cite do this automatically, otherwise I would have to wrap each
call to it using \footnote.

I'd like data to be the default format. I tried
\setuppublications[alternative=data], but now all I see is an [[error
2]] typeset in the document.

Another thing too is it would still be great if any time there was a
'url' tag present in the BibTeX database, automatically the 'title' is
typeset interactive such that clicking it invokes the url. I think that
is pretty elegant as an ideal situation, but it sounds difficult to
implement.

-- 
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http://www.thevertigo.com

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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Philipp Gesang]

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Hi Kip,

On 2012-04-13 17:34, Kip Warner wrote:
> On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 06:51 +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> > > (1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and
> > > not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.
> 
> > Have you tried something along the lines of this
> > 
> >     \let \goodoldcite \cite
> >     \unexpanded\def\cite#1{\footnote{\goodoldcite{#1}}}
> 
> Yes, it doesn't work though. All I see are footnotes that contain
> "(Xxxxxxxxxx, 0000)". But maybe I am not using it properly. I just use
> \cite[reference] and that is what I see.

Sorry, my bad. I forgot that the builtin “\cite” macro takes
bracketed args, not braced ... So, the listing below is tested,
make sure you have the file context/bib/sample.bib in $PWD:

········································································
\setupbibtex[
  database=sample,
  sort=author,
]

\setuppublications[
  alternative=apa,
]

\glet\originalcite\cite
\let\cite\relax

\unprotect

\def\cite{\dodoubleempty\do_cite}

\def\do_cite[#1][#2]{%
  %%% Wraps citations into footnotes.
  \iffirstargument
    \startfootnote
    \ifsecondargument
      \originalcite[#1][#2]%
    \else
      \originalcite[#1]%
    \fi
    \stopfootnote
  \fi%
}

\protect

\starttext

\section{nova methodos referendi}
\input knuth\cite[hh2010]

\stoptext \endinput
········································································

> > 2 You want “\cite” to retrieve full citations? Assuming this
> >   requires that they contain the complete names of authors,
> >   editors and stuff, you might be out of luck. Last time I
> >   checked this was impossible to realize within the constraints
> >   of the bib module:
> >   http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100212.073108.f4699471.en.html
> 
> Ouch. So basically no footnote citations like in most of the books I
> read. You'd think there would just be a \cite[everything] option?

You get footnote citations (see above). The problem is how you
(or your bib style, for that matter) define *full citation*. If
it’s ok to have the crippled version like “Leibniz, G. W.”
instead of “Leibniz, Gottfried Wilhelm” or (as I needed it)
without inversion “Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz”, it might suffice
to use “\cite[alternative=data][my_bib_key]”.

> > Hth. Anyways, you’re right, the native Context bib support is not
> > really fulfilling.
> 
> =(

I’ve been following this thread and it would appear that most
people who are in some way working with citations /
bibliographies are avoiding the built-in facilities. I confess
I’m no exception; writing my own bib support was in fact a
prerequisite that made Context usable for me in the first place.
It handles these full citations, inverted author or not, but it’s
by no means a general solution. If you’re really stuck with your
citation issues I can mail you the repo off-list, but you will
have to know your way around (occasionally badly written) Lua
code in order to adapt it in any way.

On the other hand, there’s been an announcement by Paul Isambert
some time ago that his *Librarian* package cooperates with
Context in some way:
> http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100405.024343.6e4aa50d.en.html
From the documentation it looks pretty powerful. Have never used
it myself, though.

Sorry for the delay, exams and stuff ...
Philipp



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Re: MLA Bibliography

[Kip Warner]

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On Wed, 2012-04-18 at 12:27 +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> Sorry, my bad. I forgot that the builtin “\cite” macro takes
> bracketed args, not braced ... So, the listing below is tested,
> make sure you have the file context/bib/sample.bib in $PWD:
> 
> ········································································
> \setupbibtex[
>   database=sample,
>   sort=author,
> ]
> 
> \setuppublications[
>   alternative=apa,
> ]
> 
> \glet\originalcite\cite
> \let\cite\relax
> 
> \unprotect
> 
> \def\cite{\dodoubleempty\do_cite}
> 
> \def\do_cite[#1][#2]{%
>   %%% Wraps citations into footnotes.
>   \iffirstargument
>     \startfootnote
>     \ifsecondargument
>       \originalcite[#1][#2]%
>     \else
>       \originalcite[#1]%
>     \fi
>     \stopfootnote
>   \fi%
> }
> 
> \protect
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \section{nova methodos referendi}
> \input knuth\cite[hh2010]
> 
> \stoptext \endinput

Thanks a lot Philipp. That's pretty comprehensive.

> You get footnote citations (see above). The problem is how you
> (or your bib style, for that matter) define *full citation*. If
> it’s ok to have the crippled version like “Leibniz, G. W.”
> instead of “Leibniz, Gottfried Wilhelm” or (as I needed it)
> without inversion “Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz”, it might suffice
> to use “\cite[alternative=data][my_bib_key]”.

Yes, I've been using data for now. I'm just struggling to figure out how
to stylize it properly.

> I’ve been following this thread and it would appear that most
> people who are in some way working with citations /
> bibliographies are avoiding the built-in facilities. 

I think the problem is that a lot of us jumped into ConTeXt's
bibliography support without realizing that it is not really mature
enough to be usable for professional use yet. It takes a lot of work.

> I confess
> I’m no exception; writing my own bib support was in fact a
> prerequisite that made Context usable for me in the first place.
> It handles these full citations, inverted author or not, but it’s
> by no means a general solution. If you’re really stuck with your
> citation issues I can mail you the repo off-list, but you will
> have to know your way around (occasionally badly written) Lua
> code in order to adapt it in any way.

Thanks a lot for the generous offer, but sadly I probably wouldn't know
what to do with it. Unlike a lot of people on this list, my first
exposure to digital typesetting came with ConTeXt which would make such
a thing very painful. On top of that, I'd have to be more comfortable
with Lua.

> On the other hand, there’s been an announcement by Paul Isambert
> some time ago that his *Librarian* package cooperates with
> Context in some way:
> > http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100405.024343.6e4aa50d.en.html
> From the documentation it looks pretty powerful. Have never used
> it myself, though.
> 
> Sorry for the delay, exams and stuff ...
> Philipp

No problem Philipp. Thanks for your help.

-- 
Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
http://www.thevertigo.com

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