Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Marco Patzer]

Hi,

I was wandering if we should promote the ConTeXt IRC channel on the
contextgarden home page, e.g. underneath “Welcome to ConTeXt garden”
or “External Help”. The current page
(http://wiki.contextgarden.net/IRC) is unlikely to be found by
anyone.

I think most questions should stay on the mailing list, since I
consider the mailing list almost as “the second ConTeXt manual” and
it can easily be searched, in contrast to IRC.

At the moment the channel is dead, which is probably due to the fact
that no one knows of its existence. But it might turn into a
valuable source of information, e.g. regarding installation problems
for which the mailing list might not be as suitable.


Marco

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Troy Henderson]

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I'm certainly in #context regularly, although I agree that it does appear
dead most of the time.  I would like to see it as active as #latex.

Troy

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Sietse Brouwer]

Marco wrote:
> I was wandering if we should promote the ConTeXt
> IRC channel on the contextgarden home page,

The purpose of a link on the front page would be to point
help-searchers at a useful resource --- if the resource is not yet
useful, there's no point in the link, I think. After all, people who
encounter an empty channel will simply turn around and leave it. But
if there are people there, (perhaps not always but "usually at time
X",) it's a good idea, I think.

If your main intention is to increase the number of regulars, I think
canvassing on this mailing list will be a more effective strategy.
(Maybe organise a theme discussion once a month or so, and announce it here?)

Troy wrote:
> I'm certainly in #context regularly, although I agree that it does appear
> dead most of the time.  I would like to see it as active as #latex.

Do you know how many people there are that lurk on there (from time to time)?

Cheers,
Sietse
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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Bill Meahan]

On 09/07/2012 06:57 AM, Marco Patzer wrote:
>
> At the moment the channel is dead, which is probably due to the fact
> that no one knows of its existence. But it might turn into a
> valuable source of information, e.g. regarding installation problems
> for which the mailing list might not be as suitable.
>
>
After being on the internet since the early 1980's I can say with 
certainty if one person is having a particular problem others have or 
will have it, too. A searchable archive of answers (like a mailing list 
archive) is far more valuable than the ephemeral presence of any sort of 
IM channel.

IM channels are really helpful when an "expert" needs to walk someone 
through something or do interactive problem investigations in real-time, 
but "answers," regardless of how unique they seem at the time, are best 
kept where others can find them because they *will* be needed again.

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Marco Patzer]

On 2012-09-07 Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net> wrote:

> After being on the internet since the early 1980's I can say with 
> certainty if one person is having a particular problem others have or 
> will have it, too. A searchable archive of answers (like a mailing list 
> archive) is far more valuable than the ephemeral presence of any sort of 
> IM channel.

I totally agree. If I get you right, you think that the IRC will
receive problem solutions that the mailing list will miss. That's a
valid point I had in mind, as well. With another channel the
information will be spread out even more, which might not be
desirable.

> IM channels are really helpful when an "expert" needs to walk someone 
> through something or do interactive problem investigations in real-time, 

That was the scenario I had in mind.

> but "answers," regardless of how unique they seem at the time, are best 
> kept where others can find them because they *will* be needed again.

Cannot agree more.

Thanks for your opinion.


Marco

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Troy Henderson]

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I have bots running in #latex and #context that allows users to test LaTeX,
MetaPost, and ConTeXt code in real time and have a URL generated for the
output of their code (or a log file of the compilation process if their
code fails to compile).  I also keep logs of these rooms, and these logs
can be searchable.  I could easily make my logs available for the website
if it is deemed appropriate.

Troy

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Martin 'golodhrim' Scholz]

hi Sietse,

there are normally about 5-10 users online regularly, including me and
Troy, but it would be nice to meet more users there, as a fast help is
easier accomplished via IRC then ML but right ML is nice for a
searchable help and as Marco said a secondary helpsystem...

That channel was designed as a meetingpoint and should have been handed
to ConTeXt by the owners but ConTeXt itself never asked for it and so
the topic is still there as an unofficial ConTeXt source, that helped me
many times :)

So I think your idea about a regularly discussion on there concerning a
special topic would be nice, but even having more users there and
helping ppl the fast chatway would even be better and nicer too and as I
can speak for me myself it is also nice to stay conected and build
friendships easier in IRC then ML... :)

Greetings

Martin 'golodhrim' Scholz

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Sietse Brouwer]

Heya,

I've added a note to the [[Main Page]] (edit it at
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Template:Main_Page), and a note to the
[[IRC]] page. How does that look to you guys? I think that someone who
knows the channel could make a more appetizing description on the
[[IRC]] page than the one I just wrote. Make it sound fun! (Presuming
it is fun. ;-))

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Template:Main_Page
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/IRC

Cheerio,
Sietse
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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Troy Henderson]

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Looks good to me, although I personally would change

"and there is a bot maintained by Troy Henderson that allows real-time
testing of LaTeX, MetaPost, and ConTeXt code."

to

"and there is a bot maintained by Troy Henderson that allows real-time
testing of MetaPost and ConTeXt code."

Even though the former is correct, I guess LaTeX is a little off-topic.
Here are examples of how to use each bot in case you want to include them
on the wiki:

!l Here is my formula \[\int_a^b f(x)\,dx = F(b)-F(a)\]
!m draw fullcircle scaled 72;
!c Here is my formula \startformula \int_a^b f(x)\,dx = F(b)-F(a)
\stopformula

Clearly, !l is the LaTeX bot, !m is the MetaPost bot, and !c is the ConTeXt
bot.

Troy

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Troy Henderson]

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>
> Even though the former is correct, I guess LaTeX is a little off-topic.


Perhaps it would be nice to have users know about the LaTeX bot as well in
case they want to compare LaTeX and ConTeXt output.  I sure changed my mind
fast. :-)

Troy

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Marco Patzer]

> I've added a note to the [[Main Page]] (edit it at
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Template:Main_Page), and a note to the
> [[IRC]] page. How does that look to you guys?

Looks good to me. Future will show if this leads to interesting
conversations. Everyone is invited.

> I think that someone who knows the channel could make a more
> appetizing description on the [[IRC]] page than the one I just
> wrote. Make it sound fun! (Presuming it is fun. ;-))

I think the IRC page is not really necessary. An IRC howto doesn't
really belong to contextgarden. Pointing to the freenode #context
channel should be enough.

A nice thing to know (and add to the IRC page) would be how to
operate Troys bot and which version of context it's running.


Marco

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Re: Promotion of the ConTeXt IRC channel

[Sietse Brouwer]

I've added the info on the bot. But please, if you think something
could be improved, just hit the edit link and do it --- way quicker
than mentioning it on the mailing list and waiting for my sense of
guilt to kick in. ;-) (If you feel insecure, you can always ask for
help or a second opinion, of course.)

Cheers,
Sietse

On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Marco Patzer <homerow@lavabit.com> wrote:
>> I've added a note to the [[Main Page]] (edit it at
>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Template:Main_Page), and a note to the
>> [[IRC]] page. How does that look to you guys?
>
> Looks good to me. Future will show if this leads to interesting
> conversations. Everyone is invited.
>
>> I think that someone who knows the channel could make a more
>> appetizing description on the [[IRC]] page than the one I just
>> wrote. Make it sound fun! (Presuming it is fun. ;-))
>
> I think the IRC page is not really necessary. An IRC howto doesn't
> really belong to contextgarden. Pointing to the freenode #context
> channel should be enough.
>
> A nice thing to know (and add to the IRC page) would be how to
> operate Troys bot and which version of context it's running.
>
>
> Marco
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
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> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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