From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/78358 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philipp Gesang Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Bibliography, unicode strings, @ELECTRONIC, sorting and bibtex Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:28:54 +0200 Message-ID: <20120918132854.GB9686@phlegethon> References: <20120918122858.265bbad1@homerow> <20120918142533.24fb2c53@homerow> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2125149185==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1347974956 20130 80.91.229.3 (18 Sep 2012 13:29:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 13:29:16 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Sep 18 15:29:18 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TDxrX-0003uK-SX for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:29:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5465C101F8; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:29:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 7S8qOm9rT9NX; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:29:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5903B101E6; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:29:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00D2101E6 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:29:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id PG55N9BJD8Jb for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:29:00 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter2-utr.mf.surf.net (filter2-utr.mf.surf.net [195.169.124.153]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA986101E0 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:29:00 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (relay2.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.210.211]) by filter2-utr.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id q8IDSxJh021667 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:28:59 +0200 Original-Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (cyrus-portal.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.176]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q8IDSw3T014623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:28:58 +0200 Original-Received: from extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.140]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q8IDSv7s004261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:28:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (p50846DA3.dip.t-dialin.net [80.132.109.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q8IDSuZP024781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:28:56 +0200 Mail-Followup-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users In-Reply-To: <20120918142533.24fb2c53@homerow> X-Operating-System: Linux phlegethon 3.5.3-1-ARCH X-License: "CC-BY-SA 3.0" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=129.206.210.211; country=DE; region=01; city=Heidelberg; latitude=49.4167; longitude=8.7000; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=49.4167,8.7000&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 04I0BsXja - c0bc570871da - 20120918 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 195.169.124.153 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:78358 Archived-At: --===============2125149185== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oJ71EGRlYNjSvfq7" Content-Disposition: inline --oJ71EGRlYNjSvfq7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, =C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7 > 2012-09-18 "Schmitz Thomas A." : >=20 > > > What is BibTeX used for in ConTeXt? As far as I can see, it reads > > > the .bib database and generates a .bbl file which then is read in by > > > ConTeXt. Why do we need an external tool for this? Why does ConTeXt > > > not read in the .bib database and directly save it as a Lua table? > >=20 > > Because nobody has coded that part yet? This may not be as easy as > > you make it sound because quite a few heuristics go into parsing > > bibtex files (e.g., look at the way in which bibtex divides names > > into first name, last name, von-part, jr-part). >=20 > I'm aware of that. So it basically boils down to the fact that > bibliographies are not popular among ConTeXt users (including Hans) > and therefore much functionality is not properly implemented or > cared for. tl;dr: It=E2=80=99s not unpopular, it=E2=80=99s a Hard Problem=E2=84=A2. I guess that is so because bibliographies and citation rules are a hard problem to solve generally. As a recent thread on this list revealed, most of us are content to instead solve the much easier problem of creating some bib functionality themselves, tailored to their own needs.[0] A given cite/bib ruleset is easy to implement (as long as you don=E2=80=99t put too much weight on sorting) -- we have Lua, after all. Developing a framework for bibliographies, where everything needs to be adjustable and parameterized (by non-technical people) on demand while remaining stable over a long time, is however a totally different matter. Just have a look at the biber/biblatex codebase and decide yourself. (Now try to imagine the same without Perl and XML to get the style bonus ;-) ) Context, as opposed to LaTeX, lacks the consistent formatting requirements by journals and editors, simply because they don=E2=80=99t usually accept it as an input format. [0] http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg62855.html > And BibTeX is used since it understands the semantics of > bib files, although a pure ConTeXt/Lua solution would be possible. > Without BibTeX this functionality would be missing since no one is > willing to implement a parser for .bib databases. Context happens to have such a parser, written in Lua. Probably the best one around: =C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2= =B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7= =C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2= =B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7= =C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2= =B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7 \starttext \startluacode local db =3D bibtex.new() bibtex.load(db, "filename.bib") table.print(db) \stopluacode \stoptext =C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2= =B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7= =C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2= =B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7= =C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2= =B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7 Regards Philipp >=20 > If I only had time=E2=80=A6 >=20 >=20 > Marco >=20 > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to= the Wiki! >=20 > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-co= ntext > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ --=20 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments --oJ71EGRlYNjSvfq7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlBYdxYACgkQ02lYlJYWs9KDjwCgqIMl1bptE3uDXhqlbWBFNZ64 0z4An329d6jjp77RcHiOJcdPrjduXA+u =cv71 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oJ71EGRlYNjSvfq7-- --===============2125149185== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============2125149185==--