\chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

\chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[Bill Meahan]

I note there are two different ways of handling a chapter:

The traditional \chapter{mytitle}

\startchapter[title=mytitle, ownnumber=N ..]
   blah
\stopchapter

Is there any difference or advantage/disadvatage to using one method or 
the other?

Other than the source code, is there anything that lists the keys for 
\startchapter somewhere? It's not documented in even the most recent 
command reference.

Many thanks!

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[Marco Patzer]

2012-11-08 Bill Meahan:

> I note there are two different ways of handling a chapter:
> 
> The traditional \chapter{mytitle}
> 
> \startchapter[title=mytitle, ownnumber=N ..]
>    blah
> \stopchapter
> 
> Is there any difference or advantage/disadvatage to using one method or 
> the other?

With the start…stop syntax you can easily apply different options to
the individual structure elements or add additional information. The
\chapter syntax is less verbose but less flexible. But it has at
least one caveat that I know: The insidesection key of \setuphead
does not work.

> Other than the source code, is there anything that lists the keys for 
> \startchapter somewhere?

Keys that I know about:

  \startchapter[
      label=...,
      title=...,
      marking=...,
      list=...,
      bookmark=...,
      reference=... ]
  \stopchapter

You can also add an additional pair of brackets with custom
settings:

  \startchapter
    [title={First chapter}]
    [foo=bar]
  \stopchapter

In the setups this information is accessible as:

  \structureuservariable{foo}

> It's not documented in even the most recent command reference.

Welcome to ConTeXt :)

Be the first of your friends to add this information to the wiki.


Marco

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Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[luigi scarso]

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On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>wrote:

> I note there are two different ways of handling a chapter:
>
> The traditional \chapter{mytitle}
>
> \startchapter[title=mytitle, ownnumber=N ..]
>   blah
> \stopchapter
>
> Is there any difference or advantage/disadvatage to using one method or
> the other?
>

\start<section>.. \stop<section>: tagged pdf.
See
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Epub



Also
\startchapter[title=mytitle1]
...
\stopchapter
Foo
\startchapter[title=mytitle2]
...
\stopchapter

From a structural point of view, Foo is outside the chapters


\chapter{mytitle1}
...
Foo
\chapter{mytitle2}
...

From a structural point of view, Foo is inside chapter "mytitle1"


Of course
\startchapter[title=mytitle1]
...
Foo
\stopchapter%
\startchapter[title=mytitle2]
...
\stopchapter

is equivalent to
\chapter{mytitle1}
...
Foo
\chapter{mytitle2}
...



So  \start<section>  \stop<section>  can emulate \<section>
but the converse is not true (at least from the p.o.w. of the structure of
the document:
and anyway you can always write your own macros to change the things as you
like  )

-- 
luigi

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/09/2012 03:05 AM, luigi scarso wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Bill Meahan 
> <subscribed_lists@meahan.net <mailto:subscribed_lists@meahan.net>> wrote:
>
>     I note there are two different ways of handling a chapter:
>
>     The traditional \chapter{mytitle}
>
>     \startchapter[title=mytitle, ownnumber=N ..]
>       blah
>     \stopchapter
>
>     Is there any difference or advantage/disadvatage to using one
>     method or the other?
>
>
> \start<section>.. \stop<section>: tagged pdf.
> See
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Epub
>
I don't quite understand the difference between "tagged pdf" and what 
you get when you use a TOC. I get the expected bookmarks (PDF TOC) using 
the latter.

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[luigi scarso]

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On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>wrote:

> On 11/09/2012 03:05 AM, luigi scarso wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net<mailto:
>> subscribed_lists@**meahan.net <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>>> wrote:
>>
>>     I note there are two different ways of handling a chapter:
>>
>>     The traditional \chapter{mytitle}
>>
>>     \startchapter[title=mytitle, ownnumber=N ..]
>>       blah
>>     \stopchapter
>>
>>     Is there any difference or advantage/disadvatage to using one
>>     method or the other?
>>
>>
>> \start<section>.. \stop<section>: tagged pdf.
>> See
>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/**Epub <http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Epub>
>>
>>  I don't quite understand the difference between "tagged pdf" and what
> you get when you use a TOC. I get the expected bookmarks (PDF TOC) using
> the latter.
>
>
> You need acrobat (the adobe reader is not enough, but I still have to
check the reader 11)  to see the tagged content.

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/09/2012 01:25 PM, luigi scarso wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Bill Meahan 
> <subscribed_lists@meahan.net <mailto:subscribed_lists@meahan.net>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     I don't quite understand the difference between "tagged pdf" and
>     what you get when you use a TOC. I get the expected bookmarks (PDF
>     TOC) using the latter.
>
>
> You need acrobat (the adobe reader is not enough, but I still have to 
> check the reader 11)  to see the tagged content.
>

Got it. Sadly, recent versions of Acrobat do not (currently) run on 
Linux and there are problems running it via WINE. I do have a legal copy 
of Acrobat 8 around here. Perhaps that will work.

Adobe stopped supporting Linux after Acrobat 9 :(

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[luigi scarso]

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On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>wrote:

> On 11/09/2012 01:25 PM, luigi scarso wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net<mailto:
>> subscribed_lists@**meahan.net <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     I don't quite understand the difference between "tagged pdf" and
>>     what you get when you use a TOC. I get the expected bookmarks (PDF
>>     TOC) using the latter.
>>
>>
>> You need acrobat (the adobe reader is not enough, but I still have to
>> check the reader 11)  to see the tagged content.
>>
>>
> Got it. Sadly, recent versions of Acrobat do not (currently) run on Linux
> and there are problems running it via WINE. I do have a legal copy of
> Acrobat 8 around here. Perhaps that will work.
>
> Hm, I suspect that acrobat8 is too old.
-- 
luigi

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Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/9/2012 7:32 PM, Bill Meahan wrote:
> On 11/09/2012 01:25 PM, luigi scarso wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Bill Meahan
>> <subscribed_lists@meahan.net <mailto:subscribed_lists@meahan.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     I don't quite understand the difference between "tagged pdf" and
>>     what you get when you use a TOC. I get the expected bookmarks (PDF
>>     TOC) using the latter.
>>
>>
>> You need acrobat (the adobe reader is not enough, but I still have to
>> check the reader 11)  to see the tagged content.
>>
>
> Got it. Sadly, recent versions of Acrobat do not (currently) run on
> Linux and there are problems running it via WINE. I do have a legal copy
> of Acrobat 8 around here. Perhaps that will work.
>
> Adobe stopped supporting Linux after Acrobat 9 :(

After I had upgraded to windows 8 and was reinstalling acrobat reader I 
found out that there was a new version. (With previous versions I was 
participating in the beta test program. And normally Martin announces 
new acrobats so maybe the new version has a very low profile.)

Unfortunately the pdfopen program cannot handle acrobat reader xi (but I 
use full acrobat x so it's no big deal).

As far as I can see, the reader does not support showing tags (which is 
weird as it's part of accessibility).

Hans

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Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:32:47 -0500
Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net> wrote:

> Adobe stopped supporting Linux after Acrobat 9 :(

And I find that acrobat 8 and 9 running under linux or linux emulation
(freebsd) have serious memory leaks, and sometimes fork leaving
rogue shadows running in the background... but I have not spent enough
time investigating this to fully understand.

Given our interest in pdf production, perhaps we ought to be (more)
involved in opensource pdf viewer development? But I suppose that
acrobat and adobe reader remain the tools having the most widespread
use. 

Alan
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Re: \chapter{} vs \startchapter..\stopchapter

[Pontus Lurcock]

On Sat 10 Nov 2012, Alan BRASLAU wrote:

> Given our interest in pdf production, perhaps we ought to be (more)
> involved in opensource pdf viewer development? But I suppose that
> acrobat and adobe reader remain the tools having the most widespread
> use. 

It would certainly be nice to have an open-source PDF viewer
approaching Adove Reader's capabilities. I've never seen any moves in
this direction, though. The impression I have is that 99% of people
only need very basic PDF viewer functionality, and regard most of
Adobe Reader's features as bloat.

Personally I find this worrying: I'm using Adobe Reader 9 on Linux,
Adobe aren't going to release any newer Linux versions, and at some
point I will run into a feature I need which is not supported either
by AR9 or any open-source viewer.

Pont
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