From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/83556 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: john Culleton Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Opening quotes problem with context. Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:29:44 -0400 Organization: WexfordPress Message-ID: <20130727102944.4ebbc6bf@wexfordpress> References: <20130722114031.0304d899@localb.wexfordpress.net> <87zjtct36a.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1374935494 2690 80.91.229.3 (27 Jul 2013 14:31:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:31:34 +0000 (UTC) To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Jul 27 16:31:37 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V35Wy-0000SB-LD for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:31:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A223101E3; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:31:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id IpHQs5Rr043e; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:31:01 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694BB101E4; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:31:01 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5617101E4 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:30:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id gIwmS2cGkLk1 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:30:40 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter4-ams.mf.surf.net (filter4-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.72]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C37101E3 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe2d:44:76:96:27:212]) by filter4-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id r6REUxCS003030 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:31:01 +0200 Original-Received: from omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5SCQ1m0060lTkoCAESWyj1; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:30:58 +0000 Original-Received: from wexfordpress ([68.50.233.152]) by omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5SWv1m00L3HwwZ88QSWwvC; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:30:57 +0000 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.10; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1374935458; bh=tupJvhjenVhh7a183tGmAlbfJAfotd2dzWYcp9l8TSw=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Mime-Version: Content-Type; b=QGtgaidZiAlwgm+6u4Mz6f0bNj9lga3BYIo/Ge3qJQtqejs78H79VWgblCBXrC94X 23MKuTc0AHnXs3R5MIvlZovqbtoGH7OoTYC1mHqfaJYN61uus8YmwuUiZ6mkvvNhSh 9/fidOukdHkSHgzum1fZ6LpHfYbmKesMjKP+LOkPqXY4j2bc+segy7fBkBZHfMKCGS 8ELu9hYVL5IxqTkIM8Ed6j/XoQuBEVpsQ9FAJsys+5xjCrHLJAOkYowgG2hxoW685W yXUxGdejDL6Wo1ITr7xOvfIqL5kEcywodkgi66zjkJtX8sde241pyqj0lSl8pIXJy7 XP2EJ4KP3NFDg== X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=2001:558:fe2d:44:76:96:27:212; country=US X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 01K5qv0m5 - ee41d2908422 - 20130727 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:83556 Archived-At: On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 18:13:18 +0200 Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > = > Am 24.07.2013 um 16:58 schrieb David Rogers > : > = > > john Culleton writes: > > = > >> Did a fresh install of context etc. from the context site. I used > >> this test file: > >> ------------------------------- > >> \starttext > >> ``Hello world.'' And ``Goodbye world.'' > >> \stoptext > >> %\bye > >> ----------------------------------------- > >> The resulting pdf shows two left tick marks for opening quotes but > >> the closing quotes are proper curly quotes. > >> = > >> If I modify the file as follows: > >> ------------------------------- > >> %\starttext > >> ``Hello world.'' And ``Goodbye world.'' > >> %\stoptext > >> \bye > >> --------------------------- > >> and use luatex or pdftex from texlive the quotes are OK. = > >> = > >> I got similar results from context in texlive 2012 and texlive > >> 2013. > >> = > >> What is the proper code for opening quotes in context? > > = > > = > > The "truly proper" code is \quotation{Hello world.} - that style is > > guaranteed to work. (And, for instance, if you change context's > > language to French, then \quotation{Bonjour monde.} will > > automatically give you the correct style of French quotation marks > > without having to look up how to type them; likewise for other > > languages.) > = > There is nothing wrong by using =84 =93 =94 =AB =BB etc. for quotations. = When > you use \quotation etc. you don=92t have to bother about the correct > marks for your language (you can also change them) but the code is > easier to read when you use the real signs. > = > > I think the problem of the two left tick marks may come from web > > browser copy-and-paste. Special marks, especially the quotation > > marks, apostrophes, and tick marks, are often mangled when > > converting to and from HTML. When copying any program's code from a > > web page, watch out for those marks, they've probably been > > mis-transcribed by the too-clever HTML rendering. > = > What John wrote is valid in plain TeX where fonts replaced `` and '' > with the proper characters in MkIV this feature was dropped because > you can use \quotation or write the characters in your text. > = > Wolfgang > _ Understood. But when dealing with fiction with many quotations this is a lot of extra keying with no corresponding benefit. And writing the actual characters in one's text is not all that easy either. The original plain TeX method is not dependent on a particular keyboard or the use of dead keys etc. I think I will encapsulate the "\quotation" method in a macro like \def\qq{\\quotation\{} or similar. Two keystrokes are better than nine. I note that the plain TeX version of closing quotes, '' still works. Would it be that hard to make the opening quotes of `` still work? = Not every change is an improvement, IMO. John Culleton = ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________